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Talk:Indo-Canadian organized crime

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Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/bluebyline/2012/08/01/apples-and-oranges-the-canadian-perspective-on-american-gun-control/ http://www.insideprison.com/prison-gangs-canada.asp http://www.vdare.com/articles/the-sikhs-of-vancouver and others. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and according to fair use may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:38, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

A lot of the material here reads like it was taken from a news report and needs to be rewritten. --A.S. Brown (talk) 00:41, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I was right. Compare this article from The Vancouver Sun here: Disturbing twist in Metro Vancouver gang war: Rivals post rap songs advocating murder with the material here. But I'll already rewritten this section. --A.S. Brown (talk) 00:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protection

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I have semi-protected the article due to the influx of copyright issues from various IP addresses, including the out-of-process removal of the copyright problems tag which exposed copyrighted content that had been removed. Please see Wikipedia:Protection policy (especially Wikipedia:Protection_policy#Semi-protection) for more information, including how to request edits. Please also review Wikipedia:Copy-paste. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:38, 21 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2014

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Indo Canadians represented 20.6% of gang deaths from 2006 to 2014.

142.28.225.185 (talk) 16:46, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 18:00, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

material transplanted from overbuilt section on Indo-Canadians in Greater Vancouver

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the editor who built this section is from Texas and has no idea of the BLP and "danger" issues associated with this content. Rather than try and edit its jumble of sentences without context, I have moved it here for integration into this article where it belongsand where editors more familiar with crime articles can vet/incorporate it; he misses a lot about the new era of non-ethnic gangs like the Red Scorpions and Independent Soldiers and others where IC criminals are involved/connected; his focus is purely ethnic/racial and he shows little interest in the context of items he adds, or any interest in general history/society at all. He'd originally titled the article "Asian Indians in Vancouver" and protested and board-warred over my change to "Indo-Canadians in Greater Vancouver" using a pile of SYNTH from academic sources, claiming that the "Asian Indians" usage found in a Rutgers paper was valid and that all the Canadian norms were not valid and that my statements about that were "original research". So it's clear that more Canadian eyes are needed on that article, as well as in revising what's in the collapse box below, and on others he's created and continues to build in the same erratic but heavily-cited fashion.Skookum1 (talk) 12:51, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Crime" section material moved here from ICinBC article

By 2009, the Indo-Canadian communities of Greater Vancouver had encountered gang violence among their young males.[1]

Bindy Johal was a prominent figure in the organized crime world.[2] As a result of the gang wars, over 100 men of South Asian origins have been murdered in a period from the mid-1990s until 2012.[3] Between 1992 and 2002 at least 50 people died.[4] Greater Vancouver had a peak in gang violence in the mid-2000s.[2] The Indo-Canadian males involved in the gangs often originated from affluent families.[5] In 2002 Scott Driemel of the Vancouver Police Department had requested cooperation from the Indo-Canadian community; until that point there had been little cooperation between Indo-Canadians and the city police.[4]

One gang originally was active at the Sunset Community Centre had the name Sunset Boys. This gang morphed into the Independent Soldiers (IS). The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation stated that IS "brought together Indo-Canadian gangsters in southeast Vancouver" around 2001.[6]

Baljit Sangra directed the 2008 film Warrior Boyz which documents Indo-Canadian gangs in Greater Vancouver.[7] This film had its premiere at the DOXA Documentary Film Festival in Vancouver.[8] This documentary is a production of the National Film Board of Canada. The documentary A Warrior's Religion, directed by Mani Amar, is also about Indo-Canadian gangs in Vancouver. It was screened in Surrey.[1]

Surrey author Ranj Dhaliwal wrote the Daaku series of novels about crime within the Indo-Canadian community.[9]

R. K. Pruthi, author of Sikhism And Indian Civilization, wrote that Vancouver was the centre of the Khalistan movement's militant activities in Canada but that the movement did not only conduct militant activities in Vancouver.[10]|}

A brief summary can be included on the Indo-Canadians in Greater Vancouver page, but there was no need for this on that page, like so much else there added by the same editor who has no idea of the context or relevance of nearly anything he adds and constantly uses "so and so in such a nad so a publication" phrasing rather than simple, plain English.Skookum1 (talk) 12:24, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References which didn't stay in the collapse box

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Unusual to put a reflist on a talkpage but necessary because collapse box template doesn't "hold" them.

  1. ^ a b Takeuchi, Craig. "Documentaries on gangs offer insight to Metro Vancouver's problem" (Archive). The Georgia Straight. March 5, 2009. Retrieved on October 20, 2014.
  2. ^ a b "Police: Recent gang violence in Vancouver may be tip of the iceberg" (Archive). Hindustan Times. June 7, 2012. Retrieved on October 20, 2014. "It is feared that the recent shooting in Vancouver of an Indo-Canadian gangster linked to Dhak and Dhuhre gangs may just be the beginning of the return of gang violence in the region which was at its peak in the mid 2000s."
  3. ^ Sumartojo, p. iii. "Since the mid-1990s, more than 100 Indo-Canadian - or South Asian - men under the age of 30 have been murdered in Greater Vancouver."
  4. ^ a b O'Neill, Terry. "Fifty bodies equals a war; Vancouver police try to end Indo-Canadian drug mayhem" (Archive). Alberta Report, May 13, 2002. Vol.29(10), p.22-3. Available at EBSCOHost, Available at HighBeam Research.
  5. ^ Brown, DeNeen L. "Vancouver Struggles With Gang Violence." Washington Post. Thursday July 22, 2004. p. A12. Online p. 2 (Archive). Retrieved on November 3, 2014.
  6. ^ Schwartz, Daniel. "Notorious gangs of British Columbia" (Archive). Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. August 19, 2011. Retrieved on January 29, 2015.
  7. ^ "Warrior Boyz" (Archive). National Film Board of Canada. Retrieved on October 20, 2014.
  8. ^ "Teens face violence and death as they look to gangs for acceptance: filmmaker" (Archive). The Canadian Press. May 31, 2008. Retrieved on October 20, 2014.
  9. ^ Gauthier, Jennifer. "B.C. author probes Indo-Canadian gang culture" (Archive). Metro News. October 17, 2006. Retrieved on October 21, 2014.
  10. ^ Pruthi, R.K. Discovery Publishing House, January 1, 2004. ISBN 8171418791, 9788171418794. p. 159.


Indo-Candian gang deaths

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Following comments at the WP:Teahouse/Questions#what do you do when a page is a trainwreck I've removed the section Indo-Candian gang deaths.

This was for a few reasons. The sourcing is poor (two insubstantial sources for the overall section, no per-entry cites) and this is close to BLP territory. Mostly though this was a big section that just didn't contribute much to overall encyclopedic understanding of the topic as a whole. If the numbers are significant, then a total count would convey that.

If anyone wants to make this into a list article, or thinks it should be restored (but with better sourcing please!) then the removal diff is here and you can retrieve from that easily enough. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:10, 19 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 April 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. I don't think that re-listing this a second time will lead to arguments leading to a consensus at this time. User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 19:29, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Punjabi-Canadian organized crime → Indo-Canadian organized crime – " Indo-Canadian organized crime" was the original name of this page and it is a more appropriate name for the page. A number of the citations make no reference to the Punjabi/Sikh links and some of those that directly refer to links to the Punjab talk of the "multi-ethnic" nature of the gangs. For example the citation with the title "Canada gang wars have a Punjab connection"[1] states that "gangs have members from all ethnic groups" and still uses the term "Indo-Canadian" template, and we should revert to that. I think that this would also help with ensuring a NPOV within the article.

References

  1. ^ "Canada gang wars have a Punjab connection". www.sunday-guardian.com. Retrieved 2022-04-04.

Gusfriend (talk) 06:39, 4 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. —CX Zoom[he/him] (let's talk • C • L) 07:52, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • For one, what its original name was, is irrelevant, its clear the original article was heavily unsourced and near being removed from Wikipedia, furthermore "indo-canadian organized crime" is clearly not an appropriate name considering every gang leader and founder on that page is a Punjabi Sikh, visible from their name. Lastly, it is clear there is no valid reason for a name change and the reason why you wish to change the articles name is due to you having a personal response to the disruptive actions and edits of "604editor" on completely unrelated pages, an editor who moved this article originally. Regardless, it is clear that Punjabi-Canadian gangs are made up of Punjabi Sikhs, not any other kind of "Indian" ethnicity and are not referred to as "indo-Canadians", a media made-up title.
There are more than enough sources identifying the ethnicity and religion of the group of people involved meanwhile with almost no reference to "indo-Fijians", the given source by paul Sullivan clearly points out all involved parties belong to the Punjabi ethnicity and Sikh religion. Regardless of certain gangs having a "multi-ethnic nature", only the independent soldiers and dakh-duhre group(UN gang), it is clear they are founded and led by Punjabi Sikhs, and also founded by them.[1] NPOV has nothing to do with the name of this article in this case, it is clear the contents of this article are from a neutral viewpoint, almost all "Punjabi-Canadians" refer to themselves as "Punjabi" or Punjabi-Canadian" it is more than evident they do not refer to themselves as "indo-canadian" or "Indian".
Also your reference from the "Sunday guardian" is extremely unreliable, for one it is not a Canadian source while it is speaking on a strictly Canadian topic no other articles or given sources mention any connection between the Punjabi Canadian crime groups and Punjab, India. Furthermore, your given source from the Sunday guardian seems to take some of its information almost verbatim from old Wikipedia versions of this article, clearly making it completely unreliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SabhSaaab (talk • contribs) 17:14, 6 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It was mentioned that the link that I posted may not be reliable so here are a couple of additional articles referenced in the article that use the name "Indo-Canadian".[2][3] If someone has a better suggestion for a page name please feel free to suggest it.

References

  1. ^ Sullivan, Paul (26 June 2002). "Opinion: Keep your head down in Vancouver these days". The Globe and Mail.
  2. ^ "Vancouver Sun: Stepping up the ranks". www.primetimecrime.com. Retrieved 2022-04-07.
  3. ^ "Indo-Canadian truck drivers from GTA caught in web of North American drug trade". The Toronto Star. 2012-10-14. ISSN 0319-0781. Retrieved 2022-04-07.

Gusfriend (talk) 12:15, 7 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Gang does not have religious affiliation

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“Sikh” religion is not affiliated with gangsters. It does not apply and is incorrect.

If not going to edit add religious groups of Italian gangster or Asian gangsters.

As this is absolute MISINFORMATION! 2604:3D08:5782:6400:15AF:25D7:910:589E (talk) 19:18, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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