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Archive 1

Untitled

PASDE isn't PSE. PASDE is a new Alliace--Bellini.raf (talk) 08:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

(User:Bellini.raf's first language is Italian, so I have translated my statement into Italian as a courtesy. I cannot speak Italian, so if anybody responds, please do it in English)

In Italian

Cari User:Bellini.raf. Grazie per la vostra precedenti modifiche. Purtroppo, l'affermazione che "PASD" (o "PASDE") è giuridicamente un nuovo gruppo è discutibile. Gruppi di continuare ad esistere fino a che non cadono sotto la soglia minima di deputati e / o paesi. Il gruppo socialista non farlo. Giuridicamente, il gruppo rimane la stessa entità. I contratti di lavoro che ha con il suo personale di segreteria restano in vigore. Eventuali debiti contratti dal gruppo socialista legalmente devono essere soddisfatti dal PASD. Il personale ed i ricercatori non si muove fuori dalle loro sedi. Giuridicamente, il gruppo rimane la stessa entità.

Sono in sintonia con la tesi che l'articolo può avere per essere divisa in due. Tuttavia, al momento, non vi sono sufficienti per giustificare il testo di un nuovo articolo e, come ho detto in precedenza, la PASD gruppo rimane la stessa entità giuridica, come il gruppo socialista.

Inoltre, il modo in cui si è andato circa il cambiamento causato problemi. Quando è stato rimosso il pre-2009 di informazione, è stato rimosso completamente dal enciclopedia, e la distruzione di datinonciò che noi siamo qui per fare. Inoltre, è lasciato molti orfani refs, che poi doveva essere fissata. Ancora una volta, chenon èciò che noi siamo qui per fare.

Ho quindi tornate le modifiche.

Puoi anche notare che il gruppo socialista è stato un gruppo politico del Parlamento europeo,nonun Europarty. Si sarebbe corretto dire che PASD non è lo stesso di PSE parte. Ma questo non è l'articolo su quella parte. Questo è l'articolo su il gruppo, e sono giuridicamente diverso.

Saluti, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 03:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

In English

Dear User:Bellini.raf. Thank you for your previous edits. Unfortunately, the claim that "PASD" (or "PASDE") is legally a new group is questionable. Groups continue to exist until they fall under the minimum threshold of MEPs and/or countries. The Socialist group did not do so. Legally, the group remains the same entity. The employment contracts it has with its secretarial staff remain in effect. Any debts incurred by the Socialist group will legally have to be met by PASD. The staff and researchers will not move out of their offices. Legally, the group remains the same entity.

I am sympathetic to the contention that the article may eventually have to be split into two. However, at the moment, there is insufficient text to justify a new article and, as I said above, the PASD group remains the same legal entity as the Socialist group.

Additionally, the way you went about the change caused problems. When you removed the pre-2009 information, you removed it entirely from the encyclopedia, and destroying information is not what we are here to do. Also, you left many orphaned refs, which then had to be fixed. Again, that is not what we are here to do.

I have therefore reverted your edits.

You may also wish to note that the Socialist Group was a political group of the European Parliament, not a Europarty. You would be correct in saying that PASD is not the same as the PES party. But this is not the article about that party. This is the article about the group, and they are legally different.

Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 03:07, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Anameofmyveryown. PASD is the continuation of the PES group, but I'm symathetic too to the "contention that the article may eventually have to be split into two". I agree also that the only common ideology of the group is social democracy and also the Italian PD is a social-democratic party (to the left of many others PES member parties), despite many of its members disagree.
Finally, a question for Anameofmyveryown: what is exactly the name of the group?
--Checco (talk) 11:07, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Ouch! "Group of the Progressive Alliance of Socialists & Democrats in the European Parliament" is the formal name (long form): news reports use "Progressive Alliance of Socialists & Democrats", which is the short form. Now here's a nasty question: what's the abbreviation? Is it PASD or PASDE? EurActiv and others use PASDE, others use PASD. Will chase. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 00:25, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Anameofmyveryown and Checco get my agreement. PASD is the Socialist Group with rename (just as the Socialist Group was known as the Group of the Party of the European Socialists during the 1999-2004 term). As can be ascertained at this moment in time, there is no ideological break with the past, nor organisationally, as MEPs from non-PES parties were able to sit with the Socialist Group.--Autospark (talk) 17:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
I also completely agree with Anameofmyveryown, Checco & Autospark. PASD is the legal and also political and organisational continuation of the Socialist/PSE Group. According to the excellent Wikipedia article, the Italian PD is undoubtedly a social-democratic party. A split into two articles could be confusing and so it is probably not an improvement. Lupus648 (talk) 18:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Deletion of, or merger with PES article

I propose that this article be either merged with the article on PES, or that the PES article be deleted, as S&D is essentially the same as PES, just with a new name.--217.157.160.83 (talk) 02:27, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Political groups of the European Parliament might have different member party, including non-union-european party. Do you plan to do this for each Political groups of the European Parliament ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.89.44.229 (talk) 20:28, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Ideology: Democratic socialism?

When most of parties included in this alliance are referred to as Social democracy party, socialist party and democratic party, why is it claimed that ideology of this alliance is Democratic socialism? In my opinion Democratic socialism is more appropriate for the group in the far-left (GUE/NGL). 87.89.44.229 (talk) 20:14, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

I do not see things as you say. In my point of view, GUE/NGL (not far-left but left-wing) is Marxist, not democratic socialist, but yes, the S&D's ideology should be social democracy. B.Lameira (talk) 22:47, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

Presidents

Don't mistake Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats for Party of European Socialists. I've changed current President back to Martin Schulz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.216.84.46 (talk) 10:00, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

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