Talk:Principality of Muzaka/Archive 1

Archive 1

Disestablished in 1417 and still alive in 1444

Exceptional claim has been added to this article. It claims that Lordship of Berat, disestablished in 1417 after Ottomans captured it and held it for centuries after that, existed in 1444 and joined to the Legue of Lezhe. Since this is an exceptional claim it needs to be cited with exceptional sources (multiple high-quality sources) per WP:EXCEPTIONAL, work which does not belong to the Albanian historiography.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:47, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Indeed it can't be verified.Alexikoua (talk) 18:09, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

John Musachi and his chronicle

Brief Chronicle on the Descendants of our Musachi Dynasty does not mention "principality of Berat" nor "lordship of Berat". He only mentions Myzeqe region. Therefore I will remove this text although it is cited, because the verification failed. If anybody has valid argument feel free to revert me. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:00, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

List of rulers

This article and and especiallly its section with list of rulers implies that Lordship of Berat existed continually for centuries in period 13-15th century, governed by Musaki family.

That is incorrect. If there was some separate medieval fief of Muzaka family in some periods of the end of Middle Ages, it did not exist continually nor it was governed continually for centuries by Muzaka's. Berat was first in Byzantine Empire, than Serbian Empire, than under suzerainty of John Komnenos Asen (1345-1363), Alexander Komnenos Asen (1363-1372), Balša II (1372-1385). In 1385 Berat was captured by the Ottomans, who either remained in Berat or appointed Muzaka to govern it as their vassal. Until 1417 Muzaka probably was not always loyal to the Ottomans who permanently captured Berat in 1417.

If Berat ever was some kind of entity under control of some member of Muzaka family in 13th century (no source is presented for this) it was certainly dissestablished when Berat came under suzerainty of Byzantine Empire, Serbian Empire, Asen family, Balšić family, and Ottoman Empire in 1385. That should be clarified in the article and sources for any "lordship of berat" state should be presented. Right now there are zero sources for this "country". --Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Map

The map used in this article is unsourced work of wikipedian which presents modern day southern Albania, parts of northern Greece and parts of modern day Macedonia with Valona, Kanine, Himare, Struga and Kastoria as parts of Lordship of Berat. That is incorrect and misleading and should be removed from the article as such. I will boldly remove it while anybody who can present multiple reliable sources that this Lordship of Berat included all above territories and cities are free to present them here and revert me.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:30, 4 September 2015 (UTC)