Talk:Princeton University Chapel

Princeton University Chapel has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 7, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed
December 2, 2011	Peer review	Reviewed

Current status: Good article

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Stillwell's book

I'm having trouble finding reliable sources for many of the Chapel's architectural features. For example, the best I source I've found to confirm the Chapel's dimensions (pretty fundamental data if you ask me) is Sara Bush's writeup, which cites contemporary accounts of plans released in 1921. Who knows what changed about the plans in the seven years before it was finished? Many of the references cite Richard Stillwell's book on the Chapel, which I expect would provide great background on the Chapel's architecture and help flesh out the Architecture section into something more respectable. I implore anyone with access to a copy to put it to use here! Lagrange613 (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I managed to get my hands on a copy. It's certainly not exhaustive; it self-identifies as a guide for visitors. Its emphasis isn't exactly what we might have hoped for, but it will definitely help. I'll be contributing based on what I read over the next few days. Lagrange613 (talk) 06:54, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

Following the request for quality assessment at WikiProject Architecture, some comments below: The article is comprehensive and well researched. What needs improvement is the lead. It should be more comprehensive and clear. Some minor points:

Prose: "University" repeated 3 times right at the start
Intro: style of "English church of the Middle Ages" - I think Collegiate Gothic is the more accurate description.
"third-largest university chapel in the world" - In what way largest? area, height, volume, length, capacity?
Maybe the architect could be mentioned in the lead as well.

Hope this helps. --Elekhh (talk) 23:59, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for assessing the article and the excellent suggestions. I changed the first sentence and referred to the architect. I added Collegiate Gothic but used the bit about a small English cathedral of the Middle Ages to establish size in the lead. The Office of Religious Life doesn't say what "third-largest" means. I can't think of a way to put it into the lead without reiterating the whole "Relative size" section, so I just removed it. Thanks again! Lagrange 613 01:44, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Princeton University Chapel/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jezhotwells (talk · contribs) 00:39, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be reviewing this article against the Good Article criteria, following its nomination for Good Article status.

Disambiguations: none found.

Linkrot: found and fixed three.[1] Jezhotwells (talk) 00:44, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Checking against GA criteria

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
The University built the Chapel to replace the Marquand Chapel, which stood between where the Chapel and McCosh Hall stand today until it burned to the ground in 1920 "chapel" should only be capitalized where it forms part on the name of a specific chapel.

Likewise with "university"
Done. Lagrange 613 17:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

the rest of the structure above grade was masonry, "above grade" needs explanation.

~~Most of the interior is limestone, but the aisles and the central area of the choir is Aquia Creek sandstone.~~ ~~"are" not "is" on the second occurrence.~~

Otherwise prose is good.
Done. Lagrange 613 01:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Though Hibben called replacing the Marquand Chapel "an immediate necessity,"[9] the insurance money from the Marquand Chapel was insufficient, and fundraising competed with an ongoing general capital campaign for the University. needs addressing, very clumsy phrasing.
Done. Lagrange 613 17:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The lead is rather thin an does not fully summarize the article, see WP:LEAD.
I've expanded the lead; how is it now? If it needs further expansion, can you provide any tips? Lagrange 613 01:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we definitely don't need a one sentence paragraph, it should summarize sections such as current use, history. I think MLK is worthy of mention, more clues at WP:LEAD. The lead should act as an executive summary of the article.
Divide et Impera and I have expanded the lead here and here. Lagrange 613 17:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I made a copy edit separate works cited from references.[2]
Thanks; this looks better. Lagrange 613 01:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It would be good to convert the bulleted lists into prose.
I think the prose would be awkward. Per WP:EMBED embedded lists of "children" are fine. Lagrange 613 01:40, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I won't fight about it but you will have problems if you take this to FAC
If only the preceding paragraphs contained the "glass windows" or the "special events", there would be satisfaction of Children. Just a suggestion for FAC.Divide et Impera (talk) 12:17, 3 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
They do. Lagrange 613 17:58, 4 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
Sources appear to be reliable. Those which I could examine supported the statements. No evidence of WP:OR
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
Thorough coverage and no trivia.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
NPOV
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
Appears to be stable
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
OK, just a few issues to address. On hold for seven days. Jezhotwells (talk) 01:13, 30 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think we are there now, thanks for your work. I am happy to pass this as a good article. Congratulations! Jezhotwells (talk) 10:31, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]