Talk:Potato/Archive 4

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Chinese name

It is not appropriate for the name to be given in simplified characters only and not in the real Chinese characters. It is even more absurd when the name (as in the case of Tu Dou) contains only characters that have never been simplified and that therefore are the same in both systems. In that case it should simply be given as "Chinese". In the case of "Ma Ling" the real characters should be given alongside the simplified ones. 66.234.47.194 (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

great, I like that idea. Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Definition

The potato is a starchy, tuberous crop from the perennial Solanum tuberosum of the Solanaceae family. The word potato may refer to the plant itself as well.

This isn't a good description; should'nt we make it: A potato is a root tuber from the perennial plant "Solanum tuberosum".

Potato doesnt refer to the plant; solanum tuberosum is then called potato plant —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.243.186.173 (talk) 11:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Potato is most definately not a "root tuber." The stolon is an underground stem, not a root.--Splitrock105 (talk) 19:48, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Etymology (Ru/De)

Этимология слова

Согласно исследованиям А. Н. Погребного-Александрова (Pogrebnoj-Alexandroff является этническим немцем и русским учёным, поэтом и писателем современности, выросшим в Казахстане среди тюркско-говорящего, а также многонационального и русского нселения) этимологии слова «картофель» необходимо заметить, что в немецком языке слово не происходит от названия земляных грибов «трюфеля», как это писал Фасмер и ошибочно переписано в различных разделах Википедии (начиная с русской). По памяти о школьной програме прошлого века необходимо вспомнить или напомнить некоторым, что в переводе слова картофель употреблялось и значение «земляное яблоко» — о чём составители новых словарей забыли (или не знали по причине невнимательности на уроках). Так картофель назывался и в некоторых районах России. Анализ словосоставляющих, период распространения растения и исторические события того времени, продемонстрировали, что:

Erdapfel / Kartoffel — не что иное, как именно — «земляное (грязное) или чёртово яблоко».

Этимология немецкого слова Kartoffel —

• «Kar» (санскрит) — действо;
• «kara» (тюрк. кочевников Евро-Азии) — чёрный (роковой) и (санскрит) — божественное или высшее наказание;
• «fel» — желчь (горечь);
• «to» и «tof» — направление и/или своего рода «начало» действа;
• «Toffel» или «Tifeltofel» — чертыхание (проклятие или упоминание чёрта)

Увидев эти пояснения у вас самих могут возникнуть мысли с ответом на вопрос — «почему?». Но необходимо обратить внимание, что в течении одного-двух покалений в Германии от голода, войн и болезней (чумы) погибло более половины немецкоговорящего населения, а некоторые территории опустошены совершенно. Не мудрено, что многое могли забыть и не знать впоследствии.

Jimaca

Wikipedia has no information on the Jimaca, I was told it's in the same family as the potato, can anyone confirm? Rather hard to find good information on despite it being available widely at Wal-Mart. Revrant (talk) 05:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Recent Vandalism

I have so far made two reverts within a 24 hour period to take out crude insertions. I do not know why the potato is so controversial that it would merit attacks. Perhaps someone can enlighten me on this? Westeast (talk) 16:35, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Potato considered Evil

I got this info about the Hunger in Europe and the French revolution as a result of Potatoes. They were considered evil? Anyway this is covered in this book http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EV4YE_0RsywC&pg=RA1-PA116&dq=potato+evil+bible&client=firefox-a and might be interesting for the article.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 22:00, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Potato in superstition

variety of common beliefs that were ruling during middleages. Like if you eat potatoes - your babys head is going to be big.<\ br> considered to be evil because it was not mentioned in the bible, because it grew underground...<\ br> and one other fact to why northern europe did start eating potatoes long before the france is that their crops didnt do well during some winters, but one of the reassons they turned to potatoes is also that potaotes were the only crop that could survive the destruction\fire and other means of destroying an enemy some 2,3,4 hundred years ago..<\ br> how ddo you call it: f.eks: The Vikings are traditionally known for leaving destruction in their wake as they travelled around Europe raping, pillaging and plundering..<\ br>,- potatoes were the only crop that could survive, plants were destroyed, all above the ground was burned... and pessants were left only with potatoes and hunger was enough reasson to start eating potatoes, and prussia did florish before the france who was still struggling to survive hard winters after the crops failed but they didnt have potatoes as the second option....

that is one of the reassons why prussians tok it in use before the french did... i have seen a documentary on history channel i think... some stuff about the potatoes bible and evil: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EV4YE_0RsywC&pg=RA1-PA116&dq=potato+evil+bible&client=firefox-a <\ br> 194.54.110.63 (talk) 22:15, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Potato Curing

There are some errors in the section on curing (Cultivation). Skin-set is the process by which the skin becomes resistant to skinning. Skinning occurs when the radial walls of the phellogen (cork cambium) layer fracture. The skin-set process is not dependent on the thickness of the skin, but on the maturity of the periderm. In immature periderm, phellogen walls are very thin, as the phellogen is meristimatically active. Once the phellogen is no longer meristimatically active, the radial walls of the phellogen thicken and become resistant to fracture. This is part of the maturation process. Curing is the process by which skin-set is allowed to finish after tubers are harvested. It does not involve thickening of the skin, but an increase in resistance to fracture in the phellogen. It is not yet clear what these processes are dependent on.

New potatoes have poor skin-set because the periderm is still immature, and the phellogen is meristimatically active. The skin may also be thinner at this time, but this is not relevant to skin-set. --Splitrock105 (talk) 20:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Another important aspect of curing is the wound-healing of skinned areas of the tuber. This allows for a closing layer and wound periderm to form under the damaged areas that resists infection and water lose. Rapid wound-healing requires temperatures higher than normal storage, high humidity and good air-exchange. --Splitrock105 (talk) 20:24, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

OK, I'll go ahead and make some changes... --Splitrock105 (talk) 20:23, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

While we are on temperatures, the article says...it says "Ventilation fans are run continuously to equalize average pile temperature to within 2 °C (36 °F) of average pulp temperature." The convert formula has been used for a temperature difference rather an actual temperature. Should read something like 2 °C ( 3.6°F). I do not know the appropriate formulaic method to do this so I will not edit it. Paulustrious (talk) 17:11, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Mono diet claim

I removed the claim that a diet of potatoes and milk is nutritionally healthy. The cited source (tertiary at best) was from a history journal and the sources cited in that article are so old that they are not verifiable. Since the claim contradicts most reliable sources regarding eating a varied diet and because the statement was potentially harmful, I've removed it. (Exceptional claims require exceptional sources - WP:V) Helena srilowa (talk) 22:19, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Nomination for either GA or FA status

According to the nomination procedure, since I'm not a regular or significant contributor to this article, I'm not a good person to nominate this article for an upgrade in status. After looking it over, I believe it deserves to be an A, GA, or FA, rather than the B that it is now. Does anyone agree? Hires an editor (talk) 19:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

The page is looking better than the last time I looked, though there are some issues, which I will list below. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

• References needed for last line in etymology (I had never heard of that either).

• Ditto the last two paras of the Description section (which also looks a little meagre), as well as first para of genetics.

• Convert Nutrition section to inline referencing.

• references for Toxicity section. Possibly also some mention of potatoes going green as well there.

• Cultivation section needs references, and looks a little wordy at first glance, so some copyediting especially needed there.

• Culinary uses section needs alot of references.

• Much of the lead is a de facto history of cultivation, which should be in a segment somewhere in the article proper.

• There is repetition here and there - need to think what to remove and how.

• Nothing otherwise is jumping out at me as not being in the article, however. anyway, plenty to do. Casliber (talk · contribs) 19:55, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Potato cuisine in China

Not sure how to reconcile these - the article currently says they are not a feature of the cuisines of China or Japan, ref'd to Charmaine Solomon, but this book How the Chinese Eat Potatoes, published by World Scientific [1] states "the potato's place in national cuisine is now well-established..." Novickas (talk) 17:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Is the publisher and/or author reliable? That might be one way to attack that problem...Hires an editor (talk) 17:32, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

World Scientific is certainly a reliable publisher, but Charmaine Solomon's books - "The Complete Asian Cookbook was published in the early 70’s and has sold over a million copies, and her Encyclopedia of Asian Food is used all over the world", quote from an Australian Broadcasting interview [2]. Dunno. Novickas (talk) 17:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Sources such as the following seem to indicate that consumption has been rising rapidly.

• American Journal of Potato Research - "China's per capita potato consumption fluctuated around 12 kg per year during 1961 to 1990, but has increased dramatically in the past decade, from 11 kg in 1990 to 32 kg in 2001."
• http://www.potato2008.org/en/world/asia.html says "Most of the potatoes go directly to human consumption - each year, the Chinese consume 40 kg per head. "

William Avery (talk) 21:38, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw some similar stats and was wondering how they were cooked. Here's a link to some Chinese pot. dishes [3] and some to a Japanese dish that seems to be popular (korokke) [4], [5]. If someone wants to put them in. For an example of a Thai pot. dish we could link to Massaman curry. Novickas (talk) 22:34, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow, it shows how much things are changing and how important to use up-to-date sources. Charmaine Solomon was pretty high profile here in Australia years ago - the book was on my mum's bookshelf. We need to get something which highlights its recent uptake after being not used much in China. Casliber (talk · contribs) 23:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Toxicity and cooking

I have been looking at what I believe is a reliable source: Phytochemistry of fruit and vegetables.

The article currently contains an unsourced statement that "Cooking at high temperatures (over 170 °C or 340 °F) partly destroys" the glycalkaloids. Such temperatures wouldn't ever be reached within the potato in normal domestic cooking. The new source says (on p. 342) that cooking provides no protection because the alkaloids are heat-stable. William Avery (talk) 09:56, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Nutrition Info, Part II

Hello. Not sure where the nutrition info came from for the Potato. A couple of details: first, it ought to say what kind of potato, since there are so many different kinds. Second, it should name the source of this information. I compared the nutrition info to nutriciondata.com, and the info is similar, but not the same. This reference also does not name the specific variety of potato, though we could assume that this is the standard russet white baked potato, as that would be the most common one, but for a quality article, it should be specific and not up to the reader to guess. Hires an editor (talk) 00:07, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Aargh, you're right of course. I didn't add the info and am currently just trying to get the broader structure in shape for the overall article. The lead contains segments of detailed text which properly sit in history and role in world food supply sections, rather than being an overview of teh salient points of the article. If you want to keep digging and figure out a good way of how to do the nutrition section, I will have a look while mulling over material elsewhere. Casliber (talk · contribs) 02:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

No problem on the nutrition info search. I figure there's some 'standard' WP way of doing this, since I've seen this label elsewhere. I think I'll ask at the WP:Food and Drink to see what they say there. Also, trying to get some references for the "cultivation" section. I did some searching last night, but could not find a thing! Hires an editor (talk) 11:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

The nutrition data needs correcting, it currently disagrees with the source given and looks somewhat ridiculous. As it stands, we say that a potato with skin has less vitamin C than a potato without skin: the source has the value as 48%, not 28%. The whole thing needs checking and correcting (the article is semi-protected). 86.142.224.71 (talk) 18:18, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Rotten Potatoes

Does the article really need an image of a rotten potato? And if it does, does it really belong under the Genetics section? --Pyho ^T / _C 22:45, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Probably not - hadn't noticed that before...Casliber (talk · contribs) 22:55, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Alright, removed it. --Pyho ^T / _C 02:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

World production source

Hi there, citation is needed for world production of potatoes in this section: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Potato#Role_in_world_food_supply

i think that this site can provide that info http://www.potato2008.org/en/world/index.html 325.3 Million tonnes in 2007 ...they also source FAO ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haloangelboy (talk • contribs) 16:45, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

sweet potato?

Forgive me, I'm a little lost here.

What is the tuber frequently sold as "sweet potato" in the US? It is not the sweet potato (Ipomoea), which we call "yam". It looks like a standard Solanum potato, but the flesh is orange, and it's sweeter. kwami (talk) 23:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

The potato, sweet-potato, and yam are not related. They are entirely different plants. 76.171.212.146 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC).

History

The history of the use as food is pretty thin, so I added text based on cited sources and John Reader, Propitious Esculent: The Potato in World History (2008), along with info on agriculture research. Rjensen (talk) 06:10, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Much appreciated :) Casliber (talk · contribs) 11:47, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

The Nutrients Table does not add up

It's more than 100g. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.103.201.200 (talk • contribs) 03:15, 6 December 2009

How can potato with its skin have less vitamin C, or anything for that matter, than a potato without skin? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.241.24.116 (talk) 22:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

You are right. Are the columns reversed? And I always understood that the skin had most of the vitamins; not the meat. BingoDingo (talk) 03:44, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

that is what i thought. the skin cant take away vitamins. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.74.62.203 (talk) 03:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

There's something fishy going on here! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.54.13.115 (talk • contribs) 00:46, 4 June 2010

History etc.

There is a Wikipedia entry for chuño (which is mentioned in the "History" section and later in the "Regional Dishes" "Latin Ameria" section) that should be linked (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuño). Either that or an explanation about what it is, since it is not a commonly know term.

There is also repetition of the information about the origin of the potato in both the second paragraph of the article and the paragraph under the "History" "Spread" "Peru" subtitle. I would just take out the second sentence in that section and make it one paragraph. There needs to be more about the spread of the potato in the Western Hemisphere. Since it originated there and was of prime importance as a food source in South America, more attention needs to be given to that realm. The whole "History" section is oddly organized, and should be edited. Under "Europe," the word "tubers" requires were, not was. Peglind (talk) 00:25, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the input - info in the lead is repeated and expanded elsewhere in the body of the article. Will look into it later. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:09, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I was also reviewing that part and I think that there is a little inaccuracy with the sources 4 and 24 in the current version both correspond to this article but I was reading it and it doesn't mention such thing, it says:

The cultivated potato, Solanum tuberosum, ultimately traces its origin to Andean and Chilean landraces developed by pre-Colombian cultivators

However that's only one specie but as also the article says there are several families spread around the Andes, I think that maybe that information could be more developed.

P.S. Besides below in the Europe section I'm confused with that link to the Russian wiki ru:Хроника Перу in the phrase: "in the book Cronica del Peru (ru:Хроника Перу) Pedro Cieza de Leon mention" I think it was a test that passed unnoticed or is there any reason why it's there? --Erebedhel - Talk 04:49, 28 December 2009 (UTC)