Talk:Poland/Archive 5

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Largest market in Central Europe

"Companies chose Poland because of the availability of highly qualified labor force, presence of universities, support of authorities, and the largest market in Central Europe" -Thats wrong. Of course Germany is the largest market of Central Europe by far. I also doubt the "biggest" R&D hub in Central and Eastern Europe (maybe Eastern Central Europe would be right). Even if there is one English language source mentioned, you could find much more sources, which include Germany to Central Europe - as the English language Wikipedia article of Central Europe proves. At least in the footnote should be mentioned, that this "Central Europe" excludes Germany.222.191.233.38 (talk) 13:33, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

You are right, it is not clear mainly due to the fact, the term Central Europe is quite new notion. Some sources uses the term Central Europe as a synonym for Visegrad Group (CZ, PL, SL, HU). Others uses the concept of Central and Eastern Europe to cover everything what lays between Russia and Germany. I like your concept to use the term of Central Europe in its strict sense and include a note that this excludes Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mb nl (talk • contribs) 11:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

www.truelier_no1@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.31.102.172 (talk) 07:55, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Infrastructure/Transportation

Why there's no Infrastructure or Transport/Transportation section in this article? Is it that unimportant for editors of this article?--83.242.88.168 (talk) 11:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Democracy index

someone could add to "International rankings": (Economist Intelligence Unit) democracy index 2007
Rank: 46th
Countries reviewed: 167 source: http://www.economist.com/media/pdf/Democracy_Index_2007_v3.pdf

The problem with Poland is that its not economically viable with the likes of the UK, Germany, France and Italy. Why should we have to bend over backwards for this backwards country? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thisismytruthtellmeyours (talk • contribs) 19:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Error in 6.2 R&D Section

I'm an enthusiast of this idea, but there is not, there's never been and there are no plans for an R&D center of Hewlett-Packard in Poland. This is a mistake in the section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pawel777 (talk • contribs) 01:22, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Voivodships

In polish language Świętokrzyskie is mean Saint Cross (like Wielkopolskie is mean Greater Poland etc.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.20.228.2 (talk) 21:18, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

• In the Polish language, both words: "saint" and "holy" mean "święty"; however, in the English language the proper expression for the religious symbol of Christianity is Holy Cross, not Saint Cross, so the calque translation of Świętokrzyskie voivodships as the Holy-Cross is correct. --Poeticbent talk 20:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Other relevant rankings

Could someone please add the latest Legatum Prosperity Index Ranking to the "International rankings" section? [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enso20 (talk • contribs) 06:41, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Notes

For general questions about Poland, not related to this article, try WP:RD or WP:PWNB.

"Nicolus Copernikus" isn`t the same person as Mikołaj Koprenik. It schould be change! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.19.199.14 (talk) 18:34, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Polish motto is: "God, Honor, Fatherland" (Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna) or "For your freedom and ours" (Za wolność Waszą i Naszą) - someone should type it into motto bar :)

see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God,_Honor,_Fatherland

Poland

Did you know that Polish Clubs celebrate New Years Eve and other occasions and holidays together? One of my friend's dad is a regular member at a Polish Club in CA. -- Babykinz16 (talk) 02:23, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

History

There are a few serious inaccuracies that should be edited, e.g. :

"the Commonwealth was able to deal a crushing defeat to the Ottoman Empire in 1683 at the Battle of Vienna." The Austrian Habsburgs were the Turks' main adversaries in that battle.

Ignac314 (talk) 19:37, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Poland motto is: Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna. God, Honor, Homeland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.175.236.91 (talk) 14:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Historians have postulated that throughout Late Antiquity, many distinct ethnic groups populated the regions of what is now known as Poland. The ethnicity and linguistic affiliation of these groups has been hotly debated; in particular...

Yes and no. They have not "postulated", this sounds so uncertain about what is certain, which is that, until 400 AD or so, the Germanic, Celtic and Baltic people lived within Poland's current borders. Their ethnicity and linguistic affiliation is not "hot debated", what is hotly debated is what comes after this bit I have drawn attention to, about when, and from what direction precisely the Slavic people arrived in the area. I see this combining of a somewhat false sentence with a true sentence as a form of weasel wording. And it is curious that, in the pre-history/proto-history section, there is no mention of the East Germanic Goths who settled along the Vistula and ventured further to the south before the Great Migrations began and the Huns took over that part of Europe. It is around this time that the Slavs appeared and migrated across most of present Germany. Someone with access to the article should remedy this immediately.--188.102.232.59 (talk) 14:10, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from HistoriaPolska, 3 April 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} |established_date1 = 965

HistoriaPolska (talk) 02:51, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Not done: Welcome. Please provide a reliable source for this change. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 03:28, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Incompetence

Whoever wrote this page is incompetent. This page is total misrepresentation of Polish history and it is biased. People that write garbage like this are most likely parasites or just incompetent. Most people understand that Wikipedia is not credible source of information for a reason. Wikipedia is now used to discredit people in conversation. When someone makes a stupid statement often you will hear statement "You must learned that on Wikipedia." instead calling them stupid. This page, like so many other pages, is a reason for that. The creator of Wikipedia should prosecute those parasites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.16.136.48 (talk) 19:59, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

euro adoption speculations

Someone ought to delete this ridiculous guesswork concerning the possibility of adopting the euro in Poland. There never was an oficial target date nor any timetable. All the sources given are just the ruling party's spin and rampant media speculations. The dates produced are just factoids, and outdated factoids at that. 77.114.41.48 (talk) 18:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Geographical inaccuracy

the highest peak of the Carpathians is indeed in the Tatra group of mountains, however is on Slovak territory, not Polish, not to mention that most other important peaks of the whole mountain chain are higher than the ones found in Poland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Universal208 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

GDP

Wrong information about GDP. Real growth rate: 1,7 % (information from https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html)

GDP - per capita (PPP): $17,900 (2009 est.) GDP per capita $14 108 (2009 est.) !!! http://www.gus.pl/wiadomosc/20100126/gus-produkt-krajowy-brutto-2009-roku —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.221.137.248 (talk) 09:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

please provide architect's name and team for TPSA Building

Arca Architects & Consultants: Adam Tyliszczak, Roman Abramczuk, Krzysztof Kryska, Artur Kalinowski, Paweł Maciążek, Marcin Malinowski, Tomasz Swacha, Bogna Paradowska. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boticelli3 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

GDP - not an estimate

The quoted IMF site estimates 2010 data, the 2009 ones aren't shaded any more.Xx236 (talk) 07:01, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Mr Komorowski is not yet a President

There is a mistake in basic info table on the right side of page. Mr Komorowski IS NOT YET A PRESIDENT. He will become the President when he'll oath in front of the National Assembly. This will happen not later than on August, 11. Now Mr Komorowski is an ACTING PRESIDENT and a PRESIDENT-ELECT, but not a President in constitutional meaning! Additionaly, in few days MP Grzegorz Schetyna will replace Mr Komorowski as a Marshall of Sejm and thus he will become the head of state as an acting President until the presidential oath of Mr Komorowski. So, if anyone could change this, it would be nice. :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BoldSnake (talk • contribs) 21:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Date

"Poland was Christianisation on April 14, 965 not the year 966 please change this Wikipedia needs to get there facts right thats why people dont donate.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.114.121 (talk • contribs)

14 April 966 Duke Mieszko I, father of first King of Poland has baptised himself and entire country in result. Do your homework 83.8.33.91 (talk) 19:43, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Parliamentary republic?

Given that the President of Poland has actual power (e.g.: a veto requiring a supermajority of the Sejm to override, influence over foreign policy, and certain authority over the military), shouldn't Poland be characterized as having a semi-presidential system rather than a parliamentary one? Lockesdonkey (talk) 20:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

No. Polish President has little actual power compared to Prime Minister and his cabinet. Veto can be employed in situation when president disagrees with parliament's ruling, and his authority over military is more or less "representative" one. Its said that he is head of PL armed forces, however in all cases final word belongs to generalition. 83.8.33.91 (talk) 19:50, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Map versus Sobieski portrait.

Show of hands please about this edit [2]. I prefer the map, another user prefers the portrait. Let's have a vote. -Chumchum7 (talk) 10:37, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Dominicx1983, 3 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Please update the information in the 'Economy and tourism' section:

replace the sentence: 'Poland is considered to have one of the healthiest economies of the post-communist countries and is currently one of the fastest growing countries within the EU.' with 'Poland's high-income economy is considered to be one of the healthiest of the post-communist countries and is currently one of the fastest growing within the EU.'

Source to cite after 'high-income': World Bank http://data.worldbank.org/about/country-classifications/country-and-lending-groups#High_income Dominicx1983 (talk) 21:44, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Done JamesBWatson (talk) 12:18, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Dominicx1983, 10 August 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} Please update the data in the 'Economy and turism' section:

Replace the sentence 'According to Eurostat data, Polish PPS GDP per capita stood at 57% of the EU average in 2008' with 'According to Eurostat data, Polish PPS GDP per capita stood at 61% of the EU average in 2009'.

Eurostat citation: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tsieb010

Regards, Dominicx1983 (talk) 09:42, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Done Thanks for the contributions! --Stickee (talk) 10:45, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Persistent vandalism

Polish ppl are the same as russian and ukranian ppl. this is a fact dicovered last week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.161.157.188 (talk) 03:41, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I keep trying to make contributions to this article but there are just so many vandals targeting it. For instance, vandals keep replacing "Eastern Europe" with "Central Europe." Is there any way to stop this?

Poland is in Central Europe. Please check the sources before the editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mb nl (talk • contribs) 15:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Please don't vandalize this discussion topic. I'm trying to prevent exactly your kind of vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.48.226.38 (talk) 16:55, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Who is the vandal? I don't agree that Poland is in "central Europe". Yes, the CIA Factbook says it is, but the United Nations Statistics Division says it is in "eastern Europe." So, I guess it depends on your preferred authority. Added by jorikkasa- Poland is in central europe. EUROPE, not world.

Is there no way to show that where Poland really is is a political issue and that there is disagreement on the issue?

I'm not going to change it back to "eastern Europe", but I don't think that it should be listed unequivocally as "central Europe" either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kubakhan (talk • contribs) 22:38, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

why don't we than use eastern and central Europe in description, problem solved ;) Mic of orion (talk) 17:07, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad the greatness of Civfanatics has spread elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.24.190.203 (talk) 01:32, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Having considered political, religious, cultural and economic matters, usage of 'central europe' should be the natural way of describing the area that constists of: Austria, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Liechtenstein, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Switzerland. The partition 'east and west' is the relic of the past. For all the "eastern europe idea" supporters: should you like to be consistent in your way of thinking, please change, for example, germany wiki' location, from central europe to mixed western-eastern europe, remembering the wall was just through deutschland. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.76.141.254 (talk) 19:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Geology

The last sentence in the geology section is incorrect: The Polish Jura Chain is one of the oldest mountain ranges on earth. There are plenty mountain ranges (which are still forming mountains, I'm not talking about orogenies) that are older. The oldest rocks in Poland are exposed in the Świętokrzyskie Mountains. --Diorit (talk) 14:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Assistance needed with the Eastern Europe article

The Eastern Europe article is fraught with errors, mislabels and slanted facts as if much of it was written by ultraconservatives during the Cold War from an ethnocentric position. If you agree with that Poland Czech r. Slovakia Hungary are Central European states rather than a Soviet satellite, please assist in rewording/correcting the article lead and body. Gregorik (talk) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.0.88.240 (talk) 15:23, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Polish participation in ESA space activities?

Does Poland currently participate in ESA space activities? Or is it the case that POLAND CANNOT INTO SPACE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.21 (talk) 13:07, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Can add a Picture of the Polish Pope in the religion area.

Official name

Third republic is NOT the official name. It is just Republic of Poland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.6.64.32 (talk) 08:05, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree. I don't see any use of that on any official government website.--The Taerkasten (talk) 13:14, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Constitution

"The reforms, particularly those of the Great Sejm, which passed the Constitution of May 3, 1791—the world's second modern constitution and the first in Europe" - this statement seems to contradict what is written at Constitution#Modern_constitutions. Could someone please provide an independent (ie not Polish) reference for this statement, or remove it? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.175.246 (talk) 23:52, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

There is no contradiction. From the article you cite: "The document became a benchmark for republicanism and codified constitutions written thereafter. Next were the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth Constitution of May 3, 1791, traditionally regarded as world's second and Europe's first" - a well referenced sentence (unlike the remainder of that section). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 21:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Polish letters

You are useing polish letters. Thanks. When I think how do some people read it... "Ł,ł" like "W,w" in "now". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.228.54.193 (talk) 20:04, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Motto

Show on the Page all the Motto's Poland had. Right now it says Motto: none and it doesn't look right...I know Poland had many Motto's Just show all of them so it looks right. I know one of them is (God, Honor, Motherland) in Polish (Bóg, honor, ojczyzna). —Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 15:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Answer: There is no officiall motto of poland becouse there isn't official documents with motto, even there isn't any motto in constitution nor any law. So we can say there are some unofficial mottos like it is written in footnote a - none(a)- see this. Mirek12 (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

So then delete (Motto: none) leave it blank so it doesn't say motto and none it looks stupid.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.115.210 (talk) 01:34, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Religion

Can you please add a Picture of the Polish Pope in the religion area File:John Paul II George W. Bush July 2001.jpg, File:Johannes-paul-II-tschenstochau.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 21:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you can put some nice pictures of some big Christian - Catholic Church's in Poland not some Orthodox Church. Last time I check Poland is 98% Christian - Catholic.

Cuisine

The cuisine part about Polish Cuisine is all wrong. Why? because all the foods have a special name for the type of food most of all the food can be found in Poland like meats from pigs, cows and so on.... I ask many Polish people the really old a Polish history teacher and a Polish chef they all told me that Poland is one of the best country in the world with foods and ideas the Polish Chef told me were not like Italy that we traveled to other counties to find ideas or even copy the styles of foods Marco Polo did bring back the pizza recipe from china . The Polish history teacher asked how is possible that Poland was influenced by surrounding counties if Poland was one of the best country in world back then in the Middle ages. I hope you change this information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 21:44, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Don't be afraid to be bold and edit it yourself − just make sure you cite reliable sources.--Piast93 (talk) 17:19, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Cuisine

"while it also borrowed extensively from more exotic tables: Tartar, Armenian, Lithuanian, Cossack, Hungarian and Jewish."

Poland never borrowed any Tartar food are you serious? Armenian? and Cossack is the funnest one. Okay maybe there was some food recipes we mix with Polish recipes like from Lithuania and Jewish but not from any country else where. Many Countries like France, Italy, Hungary and so on.... they borrowed from Poland and Lithuania because from the years 1300 to 1795 Poland and Lithuania were the Best/Strongest countries in Europe and everyone looked up to them. Just because Poland isn't as strong as before doesn't mean we borrowed from other counties recipes once again your information is wrong please I asked about 5 times now to change it please do so thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 01:22, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

• So, where do you think, "kotlet tatarski" came from? And, how about popular "szaszłyki" (part of Armenian cuisine)? Check them out! — Tatry (talk) 01:43, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Ahahahha wow.... your kidding right? NO Polish person eats some kotlet tatarski I'm Polish never heard of it... We eat Kotlet schabowy and szaszłyki the whole world eats it like pizza in America its not our cuisine.... makes no sense This page is about Poland's Cuisine not what the whole world eats. In Poland they eat Pizza too what now your going to put its part of Poland's Cuisine that we borrowed it from a other country no. please correct this. Only Polish Food! Kotlet schabowy is Polish Food. One more thing what you think Pierogi is from Italy its plural that's why theirs a i on the end of the word its called Pierog its from Poland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 16:16, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Cuisine

Polish cuisine has influenced the cuisines of its surrounding countries. For centuries the Polish kitchen has been the arena for competing with France and Italy. It is rich in meat, especially chicken and pork, and winter vegetables (cabbage in the dish bigos), and spices, as well as different kinds of pasta the most notable of which are the pierogi. It is related to other Slavic cuisines in usage of kasza and other cereals. Generally speaking, Polish cuisine is hearty. The preparation of traditional cuisine generally is time intensive and Poles allow themselves a generous amount of time to prepare and enjoy their festive meals, with some meals (like Christmas eve or Easter breakfast) taking a number of days to prepare in their entirety.

It is worth noting that most regions of Poland have their own local gastronomic traditions and distinctive flavours.

Notable foods in Polish cuisine include kiełbasa, barszcz, pierogi, flaczki (tripe soup), gołąbki, oscypek, kotlet schabowy, bigos, various potato dishes, a fast food sandwich (zapiekanka) and many more.[136] Traditional Polish desserts include pączki, gingerbread, Babka and others.

>>>(This is how the Cuisine part should look like! keep it this way!)<<<

— Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk · contribs) 01:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Please try to cooperate with others and read Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines first. You are not fit to edit until you familiarize yourself with our editing principles. Please do not remove references in order to impose your own WP:POINT. Try to reach WP:CONSENSUS in talk, and search for WP:Reliable sources in support of your personal views. As it stands, your partisan edits in mainspace can only be considered disruptive. — Tatry (talk) 15:19, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Religion

For the Religion Part why would you put a picture of a Holy Spirit Orthodox Church in Białystok. If Poland is 98% Christian - Catholic? Makes no sense whats so ever Wikipedia is starting to get on my nerve. I changed that Picture to a Białystok Archcathedral from the 17th century for a reason! — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 01:30, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

But there are other Churches in Poland and the largest religion minority in Poland is Orthodox Church so we should show it by pictures. Why put 2 pictures showing the same religion ? We have religious tolerance in Poland and plurality. Mirek12 (talk) 08:45, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

once again you make no sense did you read what I said 98% OF POLAND IS CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.115.210 (talk) 16:25, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

So Orthodox don't count as christians in Poland?Cimmerian praetor (talk) 18:06, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

No Poland is CHRISTIAN AND CATHOLIC! Not Russian Orthodox you need to go to Poland and stop reading these wrong information you look up on the internet! — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 16:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Typical Polish churches are Gniezno cathedral and Jasna Góra rather than Licheń.Xx236 (talk) 08:56, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

GDP

Data about GDP are included in several places and are obsolete or erroneous. Please correct.Xx236 (talk) 08:52, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes I agree with you, I've written about it few sections above.Mirek12 (talk) 10:38, 28 December 2010 (UTC)

Broken link

Article is locked.

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/6/32/20213254.pdf

"61. ^ "OECD Economic Outlook No. 82 – Poland" (PDF). Retrieved 2010-04-12."

Viewsdrama1 (talk) 15:56, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Salary monthly or yearly?

Article is locked.

"Average salaries in the enterprise sector in October 2010 were 3440 PLN (880 euro or 1255 US dollars)[60]"

Please change it to "average monthly salaries". Same in other places. Viewsdrama1 (talk) 15:59, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request: coal mines in stock indexes

The three mentioned coal mines are IMHO not part of any stock exchange indexes (they are not even listed). Words "all three of these companies are key constituents of the Warsaw Stock Exchange's lead economic indexes" should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.192.15.70 (talk) 14:29, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 193.25.0.15, 16 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

Please change the Location of headquarters for KGHM company (it's in the Corporations section 10th place) from Lublin to Lubin. These are two different cities. Please check polish wiki for clarification.

LUBIN: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubin LUBLIN: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lublin

193.25.0.15 (talk) 02:12, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Done Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 17:08, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

GDP - still wrong

GDP data are linked to 2009 page, not a 2010 estimate.Xx236 (talk) 07:50, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

That's not wrong, but obsolete. Polish wiki also has 2009 data. If 2010 exist, a Google search should turn them up, sooner or later, somebody will update them. PS. I just checked and CIAWF also has a 2009 estimate ([https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:44, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

In addition, wetlands along lakes and rivers in central Poland are legally protected

??? Xx236 (talk) 13:29, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, ???. What do you mean? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

millions of ordinary Poles

Poorly sourced statement regarding activities of Poles during WWII. Like any other nation the Poles wanted to survive, only a minority was involved in underground and helping Jews. Xx236 (talk) 14:52, 21 January 2011 (UTC) Yad Vashem confirms thousands od Righteous, Lukas published more than 20 years ago, hundreds of books about the Holocaust in Poland have been published since that time, many of them about the help, many others about the crimes against the Jews.Xx236 (talk) 08:51, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Feel free to rewrite and improve this section, with reliable sources. We have some reliable articles here such as the GA Polish Righteous among the Nations that may help. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:47, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Urgent need to update of the page Polska_(disambiguation)

This must be changed, ie the current contents of the page Polska (plus additional matching phrases) must be moved to Polska_ (disambiguation), then at the Poland you should put a notice at the very beginning (see. Greece, Italy), and then redirect the page Polska to page Poland. And that's all, folks. --Robsuper (talk) 13:00, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I started editing the Polska_(disambiguation). Project is located in my sandbox. Feel free to edit it. --Robsuper (talk) 14:03, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I think it's fine, be bold and do the move. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

After many attempts to determine the content of the intermediary page and a separate disambiguation page, I developed a very stripped down versions of these contents. Today I intend to make changes to Wikipedia. --Robsuper (talk) 08:15, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done. BTW, I noticed that as well the entry Rzeczpospolita requires the establishment of a disambiguation. I have attempted its creation, but in this edition of, inadvertently made a typo (omitted letter t, should the keyboard). Willingly or not, I had to ask to change the file name and that is why nothing changed on the Rzeczpospolita. I have to wait until the administrator makes a name change. --Robsuper (talk) 11:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done. I managed to finish the work, with the help of Travelbird. Now the article Rzeczpospolita is provided with the link to associated disambiguation page. --Robsuper (talk) 14:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Redirect for Polen_(album)

Today emerged a redirect to the page Polen_(album). At the top of the page, it looks even entertaining. Discussion. --Robsuper (talk) 10:58, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I've been waiting, in the style of diplomacy, through these three days, for a reaction of other potentially affected users of Wikipedia. In this discussion, however, does not have a particular resonance in the question of disambiguation for the term 'Polska'. Therefore, not waiting longer, I introduced an amendment to the Poland. I hope that this proposal is useful and compatible with existing rules on Wikipedia. Try to assess by yourself. --Robsuper (talk) 12:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

"fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort", in WW II history

Perhaps this should read "fourth-largest troop contribution to the Allied war effort in Europe". Certainly China (counting both Nationalists and Communists) had more soldiers and perhaps India and others. Most of the Asians were poorly armed, supplied and trained, but there were a lot of them.

"largest resistance movement of the entire war" may also ignore China, especially the Communists. David R. Ingham (talk) 19:30, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Yes, please someone get rid of that peacoking Mardarmac (talk) 15:36, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Rawbone72, 18 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

There is an obvious spelling error in this sentence:

"...considering his other male descendants either two young or unsuitable..."

it should read "too" instead of "two"

Rawbone72 (talk) 05:01, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Done. Thanks. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 23:47, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Kingdom of Poland (infobox -> formation)

In infobox there is no information about Kingdom of Poland. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Poland_(1025–1385)

This is my proposition - formation part:

Poland/Archive 5
Formation
• Christianisation[c]	April 14, 966
• Kingdom of Poland	April 18, 1025
• First Republic	July 1, 1569
• Second Republic	November 11, 1918
• People's Republic	December 31, 1944
• Third Republic	January 30, 1990

It should be changed following your request. I agree.Mirek12 (talk) 19:44, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Please be bold and change it. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:47, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

"Silesian name"

There is definetly no fixed Silesian name for Poland so far, as there is no fixed literary Silesian standard, although some people may be trying to create it. Right now this purposed Silesian form in the lead looks very much like a) original reasearch and b)attempt to use Wikipedia for political propaganda. At least this should be sourced somehow or a [citation needed] tag should be put there to show that it is not sourced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.171.125.18 (talk) 15:58, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Polish language

I am very surprised that this page does not more prominently discuss the Polish language. I'm no expert on Polish, but I would really like to see more mention of something like that here. I know there is a primary article on the language, but a paragraph covering the most high-level concepts (Slavic language, Latin alphabet, and so on) would be nice. --Roman à clef (talk) 19:23, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

For centuries the Polish kitchen has been the arena for competing with France and Italy ????????

What is the source? The Poles were eating, not competing. BTW - there existed several "kitchens" - the one of aristocrats, of clergy, of szlachta, of rich peasants, of poor people. Xx236 (talk) 07:52, 21 January 2011 (UTC) "Polish cuisine has influenced the cuisines of its surrounding countries" and vice versa.Xx236 (talk) 08:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I'd support removal of this per WP:V. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:22, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

The Polish kitchen in many cases is operated under license of the permission and supervision of McDonald's Corporation of Chicago, USA; McDrive. So in many cases, what is called the Polish kitchen is actually the American kitchen; the section of Poland's eastern border now comprising the external EU border with further Slavic countries has become increasingly well protected, and has led in part to the coining of the phrase 'McFortress Europe', in reference to the seeming ease of gaining entry to the EU for Ronald McDonald and the Hamburglar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.88.128.138 (talk) 10:52, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Products from Poland and Polish automobile brands

Please someone Make a new topic about products from Poland like food products, drinks, beer, vodka, also talk about Polish automobile brands that Poland had like Polonez and may others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HistoriaPolska (talk • contribs) 21:15, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request

I believe Ewa Sonnet should be included in the list of famous polish people. User:Blackjiggs

Ludwig Lazarus Zamenhof - inventor of the most widely spoken artificial language in the world Esperanto surely seems worth a brief mention in the article's section on famous people too. What do others think? Daniel De Mol (talk) 10:45, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you. I would also like to see him on that list. Danim (talk) 12:01, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Copernicus

The article states that Copernicus, "became the first proponent of heliocentric theory". This is technically not true as Aristarchus of Samos in the 3rd century BC had come to propose what was, so far as is known, the first serious model of a heliocentric solar system. Therefore I will change this line to Copernicus, "became the first proponent of a predictive mathematical model confirming heliocentric theory". Daniel De Mol (talk) 09:28, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Please change the Krakow photo

The photo, when zoomed shows an outdoor Magnum advertisement. Should it be changed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zenjr (talk • contribs) 14:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Kosciuszko

Under the painting illustrating the oath of Kosciuszko at 24 March 1794. It was the oath to the nation, not to the king. None trusted in that year king, because in 1792 at the War with Russia in the Defense of the Constitution of 3rd May he surrendered army when most most of the nation even when 3/4 part of the country was occupied. He also joined the Targowica Confedaration of traitors where were mostly paid by Russians. So chance it from "oath to the king" to "oath to the nation" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.63.238.49 (talk) 16:42, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Xseba360, 12 May 2011

the b note at the end is leading to a note instead of b

Xseba360 (talk) 16:37, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed Thanks, CTJF83 15:38, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Silesian: Polsko Republika - To remove

Silesian language does not exist – it is only a dialect of Polish. The name "Polsko Republika" is invented. Just as weel you can add the name of Poland in Klingon, Nadsat or Adûnaic... --84.176.162.222 (talk) 12:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

May Constitution

Allow me to explain this edit: Describing the 1791 document as the "Buzz Aldrin" of constitutions is problematic. The statement "The U.S. Constitution was the first in the world" is, simply put, false. By 1787 there had already been numerous constitutions throughout the world, including national and codified ones. We could add on a number of things that set out the U.S. constitution from previous ones, but then we would have something like: "The Constitution of the United States was the first national, codified constitution in the world to provide checks and balances combined with limited authority, etc., etc., etc.". The problem with doing that is that it would bloat this article unnecessarily.

For this reason, I much prefer to just include Norman Davies' brief description with an explicit in-line attribution. He is arguably the most eminent English-speaking authority on the history of Central Europe, and the veracity of the statement "Historian Norman Davies describes it as the first of its kind in Europe" can't reasonably be disputed by any reader. It's brief, to the point and accurate. Gabbe (talk) 17:45, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

It is good that you're trying to improve Wikipedia articles for absolute compliance with the facts, not with someone's opinions. Proving that something is first or second in the world should never be a goal in itself, especially if there are no reliable sources of information. My contributions in section 'Law' have the sole object of clarifications and amendments only for obvious awkwardness in terms of used language, what usually requires significant changes within the used words and sentences. Alone, not to be a historian, even with the interest in, I try not to go into the substantive issues in this field. The article, covered by this discussion is a very expanded, and, frankly, should be done a lot more fixes than it is today. Therefore, strongly I propose that you discuss this thread after its moving to WikiProject Poland. --Robsuper (talk) 10:08, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

deletion

Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aerolit. Muslim lo Juheu (talk) 03:55, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit Request

Foreign Relations section has "submitted" misspelled as "subimtted". First sentence of second paragraph. 76.235.221.249 (talk) 00:23, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Please update the data in the 'Economy' section:

Replace the sentence 'According to Eurostat data, Polish PPS GDP per capita stood at 61% of the EU average in 2009' with 'According to Eurostat data, Polish PPS GDP per capita stood at 62% of the EU average in 2010'.

Eurostat citation: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&plugin=1&language=en&pcode=tsieb010 --Dominicx1983 (talk) 16:08, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

"with a more egalitarian and democratic constitutional monarchy"

The part of the article which deals with the law in Poland says:"The May 3rd Constitution sought to supplant the existing anarchy fostered by some of the country's reactionary magnates, with a more egalitarian and democratic constitutional monarchy." I know that we live in times of very strong propaganda of democracy but the May 3rd Constitution revoked the voting rights from all the nobles that did not possess properties and restored the hereditary monarchy, how was that more democratic please somebody explain it to me? Not mentioning that The Constitution did not mention anything about democracy. It is simply lie or manipulation of the facts at best. Instead of egalitarian and democratic it should be simply hereditary and constitutional monarchy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.194.94.80 (talk) 21:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

It removed Liberum Veto - a law that allowed one single noble to trash any law that was under a vote. So it changed "all yes" to "most yes". It is much more democratic. And for removing of poor nobles from vote: at the time, their votes was just bought. It was a common practice, what meant that only wealthy was actually voting anyway. And removing poor from pool was the drastic but (as they saw it) only way to make it "one man, one vote". Is that answer good enough for you? 195.22.117.118 (talk) 09:02, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Religon

Poland is actully 98% percent roman catholic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.61.146.124 (talk) 22:24, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

No, that's only what Roman Catholic Church wants to claim. If that was truth, all churches in the country would be to small for every week ceremonies. However, it's considered bad not to claim to be catholic here, so actual numbers are hard to measure. 195.22.117.118 (talk) 08:57, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Security agencies - they CAN catch offenders

Claim that they cannot arrest anyone is false. Paragraph 243 of Criminal Procedure Code says anyone can arrest an offender caught red-handed, if he tries to run or there is no sure way to know who he is or where will he be when police will seek for him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.22.117.118 (talk) 08:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

cultural wealth

The sentence "Besides that, it has managed to preserve much of its cultural wealth, despite the vast destruction the country experienced in World War II and the Nazi plunder and Soviet art looting." does not seem appropriate in the lead written in this way. It's not cited, there's no link for 'Soviet art looting' (which needs to be explained somewhere), and it's not well expressed. Probably drop the 'besides that' for a start. What is the point trying to get out? Probably that 'Despite its turbulent history, Poland has managed to retain much of its cultural wealth', but the rest seems like revenge writing. Surely more than World War II and the Soviets have had an effect on the cultural wealth, which is itself a bit nebulous. Is that books, castles, language, institutions, artifacts? Is there a citation out there for retention of the cultural wealth, too? Might it be easier to express the amount that was lost? ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 15:47, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

In 1956 ZSRR *returned* to Poland 12000 robbed art pieces they "saved from war" earlier. But we lost much more pieces than that. Where is a revenge in saying that loud? http://docs5.chomikuj.pl/350477787,0,1,Kradzie%C5%BC-dzie%C5%82-sztuki.pdf and more sources are to find if you really want to. So this sentence should not be changed, just documented better. And I must admit German robbery is documented better and happened on much larger scale 195.22.117.118 (talk) 08:54, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Sounds about right. Polish culture in World War II could be linked. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Claim (an average Polish citizen is three times richer than an average Russian)does not find confirmation by independent statistics

According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html?countryName=Poland&countryCode=pl&regionCode=eur&rank=65#pl Polish GDP per capita is 18,800 USD whereas Russian is 15,900 USD. Rufin78 (talk) 15:57, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

The source was relatively reliable and did state that, but you are right, we should be more precise. I am removing this claim, it doesn't seem very relevant, and statistics change quickly. I think the article wasn't talking about GDP pc but about individual's accumulated wealth. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:00, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

mystiq is polish

so ive thought long and hard about this.....mystiq is still polish.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Murdd21 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 87.119.48.145, 7 August 2011

Boxing is also a VERY popular sprot in poland,

source: I live here

87.119.48.145 (talk) 19:26, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

We would need a reliable source, which unfortunately you're not--Jac16888 ^Talk 20:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Mirek12 (talk) 17:10, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

I wonder if we could add date format to infobox country (poland). I think it would be :

|date_format= dd/mm/yy (AD)

We could also add information about legislature and sovereignty type (also to infobox country)

|legislature = National Assembly
|upper_house = Senate
|lower_house = Sejm
|sovereignty_type = Formation

What do you think about it ? Hello the real language is yoyoyo peace out — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.177.90.137 (talk) 17:04, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Cite errors

The article contains two Cite errors.Xx236 (talk) 12:41, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

out of date

• Senate voting system has changed
• Old data about economy.Xx236 (talk) 10:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Too much history

The History part is too long, one has to scroll many lines to find data regarding contemporary Poland.Xx236 (talk) 10:47, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Biodiversity

Carpathian montane conifer forests is needed.Xx236 (talk) 10:56, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

White Stork, a national bird in Poland ?

White Stork is very popular, but isn't an Eagle "a national bird"?Xx236 (talk) 11:16, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

five separate UN Peacekeeping Operations

Only four are listed. Xx236 (talk) 12:53, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Jan Długosz broke this trend and became the first author to write the majority of his works in the Polish language

I doubt very much. Xx236 (talk) 12:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Child well-being

The indicators come from the years 2000-2003. There is a newer source by OECD [3] and Child Development Index.Xx236 (talk) 09:32, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Postwar communist Poland

The section doesn't mention 1956, 1968 and 1970 revolts and repressions. Gomulka didn't come acidentally, but after the 1956 revolt, and Gierek after the 1970 one.Xx236 (talk) 13:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Central Europe? That's relative surely...

The intro states seemingly authoritatively that Poland is in Central Europe. Sure, Poles think that, and some other nations too perhaps, but many would also put it in Eastern Europe. Indeed the map on that page shows it as Eastern Europe. The intro should reflect this dual way of perceiving Poland's location. Malick78 (talk) 23:24, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 2 November 2011

GDP PPP: now: $754,097 billion OK: $754.097 billion SafetyControl (talk) 11:57, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The infobox is showing the 754097 number. --Jnorton7558 (talk) 16:56, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Third Republic of Poland

Third Republic of Poland began in 31 December 1989. Ther is wrong date in box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.175.64.15 (talk) 19:41, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from ciech22 (talk) 13:50, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

I have suggestion to the modification of the article on Poland from "16:09, 11 September 2010‎ ". I don't think word "triggering" suits there. For people who are not native English it may seem that Poland triggered WWII, and not that invasion on Poland triggered it. It's just ambiguous. My suggestion is to write sth like this "Two decades later, in September 1939, World War II started with the Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union invasion on Poland." What do you think?

Ciech22 (talk) 12:48, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Clinton Sikorski picture

The chosen picture is just flat out weird. I would suggest that this is not the most encyclopaedic picture that could be chosen. I would suggest the following: http://www.state.gov/img/10/38702/AP_hrc_poland_fm_600_2.jpg though I won't copy it to Wikipedia myself because I don't understand copyright law. Wickedjacob (talk) 11:00, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

kingdom of poland

There should be also the date of the creation of the Kingdom of Poland (1025) in the "Formation" table — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.184.212.242 (talk) 17:20, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Population is wrong

After the last edit from robertpolska the population is totally wrong (48M instead of 38M). Can someone fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bengal pl (talk • contribs) 11:26, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Population of Poland - leftside box

I surely doubt that population of Poland grew by 12 million in one year. It should be 38 mil than 48...Unless I am not aware of some movements - perhaps Poland regained "kresy wschodnie" and incorporated the local population :) Please correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.20.70.99 (talk) 16:24, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 December 2011

Serious error on population number. NOT 48,186,860 but 38,186,860

This is how the numbers look now.

Population

-  	2011 estimate 	48,186,860(2011)[1] (34th)
-  	2002 census 	34,290,000 

Stowarzyszenie Rodziny Deskurów (talk) 12:27, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Likely vandalism reverted. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 16:50, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

International rankings.

On the international rankings table for the child well being ranking there is an unnecessary link to a BBC article that has no relevance to Poland It should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gazza1133 (talk • contribs) 22:11, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

is that called history?

"Polish–Soviet War (1919–1921) when Poland inflicted a crushing defeat on the Red Army at the Battle of Warsaw, an event which is considered to have ultimately halted the advance of Communism into Europe and forced Lenin to rethink his objective of achieving global socialism." What an utter crap! not only poland invaded soviet union first... well i am wasting my time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.52.101.196 (talk) 07:47, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

German asshole.That's what's bothering you.You don't have such a noble history.All you have is genocides and plundering and occupations so it is most understandable that you hate Poland so much because it is your antonim.Why don't you bugger off?

Edit request 3 February 2012

Someone has already raised the topic about Poland's location in Europe, but I must say the latest update telling Poland's in Eastern Europe is entirely senseless. Not to mention the link given to BBC wesite (being a source), shows nothing but a 404 Error. I think I'd better request changing "Eastern" back to "Central", maybe even just because Poland belongs to the West not the East. By the way Czech Republic's, Slovakia's nad Hungary's hasn't been changed (they remain as "Central").

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Altoshipper (talk • contribs) 18:57, 3 February 2012‎

Not done: There is currently something of a slow-motion edit war about this. You should try to generate a consensus here on the talk page for making the change. Sorry, Celestra (talk) 05:41, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Poland is not in Eastern Europe

Poland is located in Central Europe and it can't be other otherwise. Just look here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coggiorno (talk • contribs) 19:05, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Europa central

Poland is in Central Europe

190.51.132.140 (talk) 19:09, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Seconded. All sources shown at Central Europe agree, despite the single BBC reference here. As the section states discussion here prior to changes in the intro, {{admin help}}. Dru of Id (talk) 21:30, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Twice changed recently to 'Eastern Europe' in intro, despite the comprehensive maps at 'Central Europe'; suggest [ 'Central Europe' ('Eastern Europe' in some works') ].... Dru of Id (talk) 21:34, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

 Done Compromise. Dru of Id (talk) 23:58, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

I would suggest to follow the example of Germany page which deals with similar Western/Central Europe ambiguity and simply put that "Poland is a country in Europe bordered ..." I think that it would solve all the issues here. Mb nl (talk) 16:10, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request 6 February 2012 (another compromise proposal)

I totally agree with a solution mentioned above. To avoid any controversies, I suppose following Mb nl's (talk) idea and writing "Poland is a country in Europe bordered ..." or anything similar, thus omitting the entire problem.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Altoshipper (talk • contribs) 18:57, 3 February 2012‎

 Done --andy4789 ★ · (talk? contribs?) 23:31, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

What is "OECD Working time"?

Is the 2nd longest or shortest?Xx236 (talk) 13:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 6 March 2012

Formation should be this way. Please change the Formation.

Christianisation April 14, 965

Kingdom of Poland 966 - 1569

Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth July 1, 1569

Partition of Poland October 24, 1795

Duchy of Warsaw 1807 - 1815

The re-creation of Independent Poland November 11, 1918

Invasion of Poland, World War II September 1, 1939

Communist Poland April 8, 1945

Republic of Poland September 13, 1989 -

TrueHistoryPoland (talk) 15:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:53, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Kashubian: Pòlskô Repùblika; Silesian: Polsko Republika

• What is the source of the names?
• Why these languages? Xx236 (talk) 09:34, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorbian

Why there is Sorbian in the list of regional languages in the infobox right? I don't think it is spoken in Poland. And the name links to Kashubian btw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.184.229.120 (talk) 07:44, 13 March 2012 (UTC) I have removed it.Xx236 (talk) 12:51, 13 March 2012 (UTC) The source was probably an old version of Languages of Poland.Xx236 (talk) 13:15, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Regional languages

There is only two Regional languages Kashubian and Silesian. Must be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JanaMitz (talk • contribs) 17:39, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Is kefir characteristic for Polish cuisine?

Any sources?Xx236 (talk) 11:00, 2 March 2012 (UTC) I'm living in Poland, in Warsaw. Kefir is one of the most popular drinks in Poland. It's like like, but more gestures. --Kacper9 (talk) 14:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Languages in Poland

There is only one language in Poland and that is Polish so we need to delete the 'regional languages' box.It only serves the German agenda because Germans want forcefully and artificially create nonexisting fifth columns.That's enough with it already because wikipedia is already so germanophilic like never before.I looked on Germany here and Germany doesn't have the box called 'regional languages',only Poland - the most nationally unitary country in Europe and maybe even the whole world so someone is always thinking how to plant some sabotage on Poland and we need to make the Germans stop it already.

78.9.77.74 (talk) 17:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)PLNarodowiecNR78.9.77.74 (talk) 17:10, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Economy

I'm sorry but reading the economy paragraph - and knowing something about Poland - one may think Poland is a rich country or something. Its GDP per capita is lower than Greece's though, it's not even in the euro, there is a lot of poverty and a lot of infrastructure is missing in Poland (roads are a mess). Please be objective! 134.176.192.44 (talk) 11:11, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Well, Polish unemployment is less than Spain's and about the same as France's; being outside the euro isn't a bad thing (the Brits and Swedes don't want it); GDP per capita is a misleading measure regardless of whether you're arguing Poland is rich or poor - Poland's is higher than economic powerhouses China, Brazil and Russia by the way. But the national average wage is low by EU standards. Plus I'll grant you the roads are lousy and at ~5500 p/a there are more road deaths in Poland than in any other EU country (yes, more than in Germany which has over twice the population) so go ahead and add that, with a source which will be easy to find. -Chumchum7 (talk) 22:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

The number of deaths in traffic has little to do with the roads standard,but much with the driving culture, which comparable to that of Greece and Portugal As long as the Polish drivers have the motto "I have the inaliebnable right to right to drive as fast as I like", and drunken driving so widespread as it is, the death toll will stay high.

--Jidu Boite (talk) 13:25, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Won't agree with You. Firstly the most problem with roads is that the highways are free and there is a big number of it in some countries. This mainly reduces the death toll. The highway basically is the road when You drive in one way, mainly on simple no or little curves direction. Less complicated = better for amateurs. Secondly Polish unemployment is lowered in statistics, because many of Poles gone abroad. And in Poland You won't get any compensation from govt. when unemployed, except for ~half-year very low money if You were paying before from Your salary on govt. fund. So people don't go to register. Also the main problem with European money is that only 1-2 countries with good economy have it. Especially the Swedes and Brits don't have it, so who would make it strong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.68.103.25 (talk) 18:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

LGBT rights in Poland

This article ("Poland is legally and socially tolerant towards homosexuality") seems very much at odds with this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Poland — Preceding unsigned comment added by Japsai (talk • contribs) 11:52, 26 April 2012 (UTC) Alright if there is no opposition I will try and adjust the text. Japsai (talk) 14:10, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Why is this subject so importaint ?

HDI, and democracy

Please add to article the following international maps of current democracy and HDI opinion in Poland compared to other world.

Democracy Index 2010.

Full democracies:   9-10   8-8.9 Flawed democracies:   7-7.9   6-6.9   No data

Hybrid regimes:   5-5.9   4-4.9 Authoritarian regimes:   3-3.9   2-2.9   0-1.9

In this 2008 Press Freedom Index, countries shown in maroon have the least press freedom.

World map indicating the Human Development Index (based on 2010 data, published on the 4th of November, 2010)

0.900 and over   0.850–0.899   0.800–0.849   0.750–0.799   0.700–0.749

0.650–0.699   0.600–0.649   0.550–0.599   0.500–0.549   0.450–0.499

0.400–0.449   0.350–0.399   0.300–0.349   under 0.300   Data unavailable

Not done: I don't see where those maps would fit in the article, and I think they would be detrimental to the focus of the article. As far as I can see, the maps aren't really about Poland, other than that Poland is one of the many countries shown on the map. ~Adjwilley (talk) 23:20, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't understand Your reasons. 1) There is e.g. map showing Poland, in the World, even first map in this article - so words about "one of the many" are not the valid reason for refuse. 2)Poland#International rankings - clearly shows Poland position in International Rankings, and this is the place, where comparing with maps(a picture is worth more then thousand word) should be. So words about "don't see(...) fit in the article" are not correct, if You read it all.

Not done: Ask for a link to be inserted - these would clogg up the page Mdann52 (talk) 15:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Zapiekanka case

Article lacks probably most modern Polish cuisine - zapiekanka. It should be listed there for two reasons. 1) It is a relict from even PRL era, and quite old today. 2) It is so popular, that not writing in main article(and there is a number of cuisines there, which are not so popular) is like doing an short article about fast food in UK and not mentioning fish&chips.

Done Mdann52 (talk) 16:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC) (ps. please sign your comments by inserting "Mdann52 (talk) 16:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)" after your message on a talk page)

Mistake in corporations

In the table presenting the corporations it is written "name of concern". It rather should be "name of Corporation" or "company name". Concern sounds inappropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.199.200.46 (talk) 18:34, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

New OECD Data About Poland

We should see if we could utilize some of this detailed information: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/poland/ --Zurkhardo (talk) 03:39, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Wrong date for Kingdom of Poland

Kingdom of Poland has emerged in 1025 when the first king of Poland was crowned (Boleslaw Chrobry) Before it was merly recognised as the state led by the Piast dynasty. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.42.249.134 (talk) 11:57, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Mistake in infobox

In infobox country the point where is GDP PPP there is a date 2009 (estimate) but in source we have this measures for 2010 (estimate). Please check the source again and change this for 2010 (estimated) when I am right.Mirek12 (talk) 13:57, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Cuisine

First of all Polish cuisine has no influence by the cuisines of surrounding countries. For centuries the Polish kitchen has not been borrowing from France and Italy, while it also borrowed extensively from more exotic tables: Tartar, Armenian, Lithuanian, Cossack, Hungarian and Jewish.[121] It is rich in meat, especially chicken and pork, and winter vegetables (cabbage in the dish bigos), and spices, as well as different kinds of pasta the most notable of which are the pierogi. It is related to other Slavic cuisines in usage of kasza and other cereals. Generally speaking, Polish cuisine is hearty. The preparation of traditional cuisine generally is time intensive and Poles allow themselves a generous amount of time to prepare and enjoy their festive meals, with some meals (like Christmas eve or Easter breakfast) taking a number of days to prepare in their entirety.

This is all wrong if anything the surrounding countries where influenced by Polish Cuisine!

bigos, kasza, pierogi and some many other foods are completely from Poland made by Polish people we do not have any influence by the cuisines of surrounding countries or from France, Italy the most funniest one America? are you kidding me when Polish soldiers came from Poland to America we showed American people in the 17, 18 century many Polish Cuisines Kazimierz Pułaski "The father of American Cavity" would be very angry if he was still alive and read this even though its not possible but he did save American independence and helped a lot I'm sure he showed and brought the American people and soldiers some Polish Cuisine Please change this I'm insulted.

Once again some one didn't do there homework that's why all my teachers from high school and college tell me not to use Wikipedia because most of there information isn't double checked or its completely wrong.... I do like Wikipedia but please get your information right!

Mountains

3.1 Geology "Poland has 21 mountains over 2,000 metres (6,600 ft) in elevation, all in the High Tatras." <<<<< This is not true !!!

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najwy%C5%BCsze_szczyty_w_Polsce

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatry_Zachodnie

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starorobocia%C5%84ski_Wierch

culture section issues, edit request

I've looked at the culture section of this arcticle and think that it would be good to rebuild it a little. For instance: the famous people section is doubling some issues that are mentioned in literature, I think it should be deleted in the first one. Actually I think it is not a bad idea to delete the "famous" completly with adding a little more detiled information on certain topics, like the literature section.

I think it would be great to create something about theatre (well, since Poland have great tradition of it, and is by some considered one of the most important european centres of theatrical life... Mentioning people like Tadeusz Kantor, Jerzy Grotowski, Krystian Lupa, and from younger generation Krzysztof Warlikowski or Jan Klata, outstanding actress Helena Modrzejewska, or playwriters from past times like Mickiewicz, Słowacki to more modern ones: Witkacy, Gombrowicz, Różewicz... And so on.

Another overlooked section is philosophy. At least few polish poeple working on philosophical problems are considered world's top intellectuals, gained their place in philosophers panteon. To name some: Alfred Tarski, Władysław Tatarkiewicz, Roman Ingarden, Zygmunt Bauman, Leszek Kołakowski, John Paul II or Józef Tischner.

I'm not an expert at cinema topics, but I guess it would be good to point out such people like: Kieślowski, Wajda, Kawalerowicz, Polański, Skolimowski; Pola Negri would fit here as well.

Also while skimming through music seciton I haven't found important names like: Witold Lutosławski, Henryk Mikołaj Górecki or Andrzej Panufnik, it would be good to add these and maybe a senctance about prestigious International Chopin Piano Competition?

grammar

s/seek a better wages/seek better wages/

Population of Poland

1) Please read the census carefully - basically it states that from about 38 million(and it is very lowering the number), at least ~2 millions are living outside Poland, for more there 3-4 months a year(and about more than 1,5 million for more than 6 months, which make them non resident physically by law, with virtually number of residents because of changing countries, not registering there, or just not unregistering in home country).
2) In fact probably population living in borders of Poland, with some holiday only work/pleasure trips is probably more similar to the whole Oceania territory - and it is worth saying that compare with Oceania in article.

 Not done. This may need RfC or other consensus. Is there a reason you can't create an account and avoid backlogging the request board?--Canoe1967 (talk) 04:13, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Languages in Poland

I know that there are people from Silesia that might disagree but Silesian is not exactly a language, more of a dialect. Certainly it is much less of a language than Kashubian. Kashubian is oficially also a regional language. If we put Silesian we should put other dialects as well. Let me know what you think guys. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.235.53.15 (talk) 23:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

POV

"An estimated 600,000 soldiers died during the Soviet campaign to defeat the Germans in Poland." :

• They died mostly to win the war, rather than to help Poles.
• Many Poles died fighting Germans.
• Which "Poland"? Rather the post-war one so it wasn't partially Poland before Potsdam agreement.
• The SU occupied Poland, murdered and imprisoned Poles, used former Nazi camps and prisons.Xx236 (talk) 07:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

 Done I have corrected that by removing that information which is not relevant for the section about Polish losses during WW2. Mb nl (talk) 22:58, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

1795, end of the old Poland and Austria of 1919-1936 and 1945 and presant

During 1796-1918 no Polish nation did exist on the maps. Despite a large polish speaking population. In 1795 the third and last of thee major dividings occured. However in the text Austria is mentioned as one of the countries that took a piece of Poland. But only by clicking on the blue link (of indeed very many), the true nation is revealed. I state that in 2012 the word "Austria" alone people in general may thinkthat the nation is Austria of today (or after first world war). But this is not the case. In 1919 the old Austria (around 1860 to 1918 known as Austria-Hungary) no longer existed. This may confuse readers. I strongly do suggest (reguarding 1795) to change the word "Austria" to "the old Austia", "The Habsburgian Austia", "The Habsburg Monarchy" or something like this. The little Austria that has existed 1919-1936 and from 1945 must not be confused with the old Austria which in 1914 covered today's Austria, Hungary, Czech republic, Slovakia, Transsylvania (today part of Romania), Slovenia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Vojvodina (today part of Serbia), Galizia (today splitted between Poland, Belarus and Ukraine), Southern Tyrol (today part of Italy) and Croatia. Furthermore i suggest that the "greatest thiefs" of polish territory (in both 1795), Russia is mentioned first, the Preussia and the old Austria. I cannot see how this change could be an offence to any existing nation as of 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.249.42.164 (talk) 06:35, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

"During 1796-1918 no Polish nation did exist on the maps."

Duchy of Warsaw was a Polish state 1897-1812 (1815).

Congress Poland (at least till 1830).

You are right regarding "Austria".

Xx236 (talk) 07:16, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Military update and change

The photo of f16 should be removed and changed. Reason:

• the f16 is not something special, unusual in NATO (and especially for English reading readers)
• The basic(best) Polish fighter-bomber is currently [| Mig-29], which because of two engines, simple electronics being modernized is better, longer in operation, and without problems on the scale of bought as-new f16.
• However it is also used by Slovaks, and more unique is mi24 e.g. photo [4] which definitive is unique big, operational usage in NATO, and probably biggest or one of the biggest currently in Afghanistan. — Unsigned comment added by User 89.76.180.200 (talk · contribs)

Not done for now: If you can provide a photo to replace it with I'm sure this request will be considered further. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, changing pics would not be enough here. Please provide reliable third party source stating that Mig-29 "is better" (as per claim made by 89.76.180.200) than F-16. Poeticbent talk 14:16, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Photo of mi24, which is suitable for changing : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Mi24CP_edit.jpg . It's rare example of NATO active stock currently.
About mig-29 - it's long story of the comparing, as You probably known. Unofficially in dogfights like this pilots agree that with modern electronics migs-29 are better than f16. In Polish case - officially the f16s are better by words of the government, however if You saw it's during test-plays for public, they really tried to do everything to give f16s opportunity to hide and intercept(see e.g. video in this article) - just two engine is always better than one(comparable better plane from USA site was tomcat). And the best argument is that Polish airforce don't send the migs-29 to the trash or reserve, and still operate it, even in combat or NATO border patrolling e.g. this article. Also about airworthy of especially Polish f16s(maybe that produced for USA are better) is that the new planes were grounded because of many failures(not flying plane is always worse than flying, probably ;-) ).E.g. article

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Given the possible issues involved with changing from an American produced aircraft to a Russian produced aircraft I'd like a rough consensus first. Callanecc (alt) (talk) 11:09, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

RFC

There is a Request for comment about the utility/redundancy of Largest cities/city population templates. This is an open invitation for participating in the request for comment on Wikipedia:Requests for comment/City population templates. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. Mrt3366^{(Talk?) (New thread?)} 15:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

B-class review: failed

Quick failed due to: insufficient citations (unreferenced paragraphs spotted). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 17:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Modern Map of Poland

Can someone please add a current map of Poland with the cities and rivers labeled? Thanks. 64.128.27.82 (talk) 14:41, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Can't find a good static map, so I imported Template:Map of Poland from pl wiki. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 20:00, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

nonsense

"The Polish banking sector is the largest in central and eastern Europe..." & "According to a Credit Suisse report, Poles are the second wealthiest (after Czechs) of the Central European peoples." →→ Guess what? - Germany belongs to Central Europe. The single German state of North Rhine-Westphalia alone (one of sixteen federal states), already has a higher GDP than the whole of Poland! Of course what is also not mentioned: Poland is the biggest beneficiary from the EU budget. Last year it received a net amount of €11.2bn from Brussels. → [5]. --IIIraute (talk) 03:57, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Are you quibbling with the information given by the sources, or the definition of "Central Europe" that the sources are using? Btw, NR-W does not have a higher GDP than Poland, though they're close (about 550 billion vs. 750 billion), though that's beside the point. That also puts that EU budget number in perspective - that 11.2bn euro is about 2% of Poland's GDP. Volunteer Marek  06:59, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

NRW's GDP (nominal) is higher. $543.03 billion (NRW) vs. $513.821 billion (Poland) - (or Bavaria's $578 billion GDP, for example) The definition of Central Europe is very clear - just look at the article. --IIIraute (talk) 07:09, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Not at purchasing power parity - stuff's cheaper in Poland. Anyway, I can just reply with "just look at the sources". Volunteer Marek  07:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The sources can claim any shit propaganda - the content is wrong and I will prove it with better sources. Maybe it would also make sense to remove a link to Central Europe that clearly defines Germany to be a part of it.--IIIraute (talk) 07:12, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The sources are simply using a different definition of "Central Europe" than you are.  Volunteer Marek  13:16, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, if you don't like the phrasing "central Europe" because you think it might suggest that Poland's wealthier/richer than Germany, then suggest alternative wording. Volunteer Marek  13:26, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The sentences, how they are now, are clearly misleading - especially with that link to Central Europe.--IIIraute (talk) 21:16, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The CS report is badly written (where do the authors think Germany is?). I'd suggest removing the comparison sentence; it doesn't add much ("in an arbitrarily defined group of countries, Poland is the second wealthiest..." - meh). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 21:21, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Banking sector and GDP are related but not the same.

Polish banks are generally controlled from abroad.Xx236 (talk) 14:33, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

The new gallery

It's POV, why these buildings, why these pictures? No name of the paragraph.Xx236 (talk) 09:53, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Why these pictures? Because they dont fit into the article. It's common gallery like 4xmple here: Bratislava. Name of the paragraph added. Jirka.h23 (talk) 13:35, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Sports

The Polish men's national volleyball team is ranked 5th in the world and the women's volleyball team is ranked 10th - such ranks change.Xx236 (talk) 09:58, 5 December 2012 (UTC) In August it was 4 and 15 respectively. Who will edit the numbers in the future?Xx236 (talk) 08:53, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Ferdynand Antoni Ossendowski

The claim eliminated is absurd, as well as lacking a source. Ossendowski was a minor, right-wing political figure. His literary output was never considered important. Books by Ferdynand Antoni Ossendowski were very popular. Many Nobel prize winners wrote political texts and their literary output was never considered important.Xx236 (talk) 08:07, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Literature - the paragraph doesn't explain anything

• What is the Polish literature? Is it the litaterature written in Polish (so without Jan Długosz but with a number of Israeli writers) or the literature written by Poles in many languages (eg. The Manuscript Found in Saragossa by Potocki). Joseph Conrad was a Polish author who wrote in English.
• The literature replaced in some way the state (19th century) and helped to recreate the Polish state in 1918.Xx236 (talk) 08:33, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 December 2012 (Map of Poland in 10th/11th century)

I am just wondering, how come there is no map of Poland from the beginning of our statehood in 10th or early 11th century?

I would be obliged if someone could add one (or both) of the following maps: - (Poland in 960-992) http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Polska_960_-_992.png&filetimestamp=20101007120512 - (Poland in 992-1025) http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Plik:Polska_992_-_1025.png&filetimestamp=20120618083129

This article is a quasi-official 'selling page' of Poland, therefore I think we should take care about showing our history & heritage in a proper way... 93.107.81.213 (talk) 12:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

The two maps linked are each used in multiple other English Wikipedia pages. Please see the links at the bottom of the two linked file pages to see which ones. Of note, the second map you linked is on the History of Poland article, among others. The "main" Poland article is and should be about the present-day nation of Poland, with a summary-level description of its history, geography, economy, etc. Detailed information about its history – including maps showing Poland's past political boundaries – should be and is contained in the History of Poland article and its various period-specific fork articles. Those articles are prominently linked from this article. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 20:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Are you Polish (from your user page it doesn't look so)? So who are you to decide what this article should be about?

BTW, if you look at the general article on Germany (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany), you can even see an inaccurate map from ca. 100 AD (Magna Germania)...

Therefore, may I ask any registered Polish user to add the said map/-s to the article on our country, so as everyone visiting this page can have a quick view on the territory of early Polish state. Many thanks.

109.77.137.140 (talk) 16:42, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. The article does not exist to "sell" Poland. From my perspective, the history section appears satisfactorily illustrated. The nationality of any Wikipedian is immaterial for the purposes of your request. Rivertorch (talk) 05:06, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, the article does not have many maps so one more wouldn't hurt. There is however the danger that the article would become too cluttered up with illustrations. So there's a trade off. If we were to include a map, which illustration would it replace? VolunteerMarek 18:09, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

(btw, I was informed of this discussion by the IP on my talk page, though I had noticed it earlier myself).VolunteerMarek 18:21, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

• Per Rivertorch, I don't think old dusty maps would be of any advantage in this article. Poeticbent talk 19:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi VolunteerMarek, many thanks for looking into my query (I've a dynamic IP, but it's me who had logged that edit request). I personally would replace Matejko's pic re Baptism with a map of 'Civitas Schinesghe' (960-992).

@Poeticbent: thank you for such valuable input ;-)

109.78.240.127 (talk) 21:05, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Hey Marek, I hope you are not going to give in with adding the map in question. I think that, in light of changing external conditions, Poland must keep reminding that our western part is indeed the recovered Slavic lands. And Wikipedia is one of the 'soft' tools for that. Therefore, as Poland has beautiful history, don't be afraid to show it!

109.78.194.249 (talk) 18:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Trying to entice long-term editors into disagreeing with others ... while using and IP instead of a user account, is not necessarily the way to go with regard to top-visibility articles, but I found another map, probably better than the ones suggested above, but also more informative than the odd black-and-white sketch of some Denarius. I'm replacing that file. Thanks for the suggestion, Poeticbent talk 20:43, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Poeticbent, it's me, anon IP, who's been on the map thing :-) I can see your recent impressive input into the article. Thanks very much for adding the said map, much appreciated! The only remark I would have relates to the map's description, i.e. Mieszko I was a Duke of Poland, he wasn't the first crowned King (his son Bolesław Chrobry/Brave was).

Regards. 93.107.66.5 (talk) 21:45, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Wrong signature under the map of Poland (960 - 992)

The text below the map says, that Mieszko was the first crowned king, which is not true. He was not a king, he was a duke. Mieszko's son became the the first king. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:6D8:10:A014:5C69:2B8E:5C65:2D82 (talk) 16:36, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Poland size

According to this link [[6]] as well as polish version of wikipedia [[7]] Poland is 70th largest country in the world not 69th.

Also area in the table to the right states 312,685 km2 where main article says 312,679 km2 Main article is correcrt according to polish statistics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Feniks PL (talk • contribs) 14:14, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Fixed the 312 number and 69/70 issues. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:01, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Religion

Religion; Under the "Religion" section, it begins with "Until World War II Poland and Prussia had a Protestant majority." Not only is this awkwardly worded, but why is it mentioning Prussia in this text? And Prussia didn't even exist in any form after 1918, so why reference that in the time frame of WWII? Whats worst though is the statement that Poland was predominantly Protestant. This is factually wrong. Look at any study and source on religion in Poland before the Holocaust and you'll see that Catholicism was always by far the most dominant religion. This is very poorly researched and written and must be corrected. §→±←§ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jswierc1 (talk • contribs) 04:47, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Jswierc1 (talk) 04:53, 22 March 2013 (UTC)Religion; Under the "Religion" section, it begins with "Until World War II Poland and Prussia had a Protestant majority." Not only is this awkwardly worded, but why is it mentioning Prussia in this text? And Prussia didn't even exist in any form after 1918, so why reference that in the time frame of WWII? Whats worst though is the statement that Poland was predominantly Protestant. This is factually wrong. Look at any study and source on religion in Poland before the Holocaust and you'll see that Catholicism was always by far the most dominant religion. This is very poorly researched and written and must be corrected. Jswierc1 (talk) 04:53, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I have rewritten the sentence. If you have a source for dominant Catholicism, please provide full bibliographical information so we can properly cite it. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:58, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Sources are needed but RC was apparently a politically dominant religion 1919-1939 (uniates belonged to RC).Xx236 (talk) 12:44, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

http://historia.na6.pl/stosunki_wyznaniowe_ii_i_iii_rp Xx236 (talk) 12:46, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I've added the stats, through the ref is not very reliable (student paper?). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:16, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

[8] - reliable.Xx236 (talk) 10:14, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Wrong claims in politics sections - Important change

It is not true that prime minister Donald Tusk is first elected twice during democracy. First of all there is no prime minister elections in Poland, and no option to vote("democracy") for prime minister. Secondly if You call for "democracy times" there were other prime ministers, serving 2 or 3 times, for example Antoni Ponikowski (II RP) was twice, or Kazimierz Bartel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.74.110.154 (talk) 19:29, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

I've simplified to sentence to remove this potential error. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:52, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

An estimated 600,000 Soviet soldiers died in conquering Poland from German rule

• How many Polish soldiers died as Polish soldiers?
• How many Polish soldiers died among Soviet soldiers?
• There exists direct connection between the destruction of Poland after the German-Soviet treaty and the death of the 600.000 .
• How many of the 600.000 were murdered by the NKVD?Xx236 (talk) 10:29, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Waters

In the section entitled "Waters", "allured to" seems to be a mistake for "alluded to". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.152.26.92 (talk) 10:17, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

 Done. Poeticbent talk 21:54, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

'Communications' section

The section in its current state is useless. One proof is the sentence beginning with 'despite' without anything to follow. The other half of the sentence was removed in 2005; it seems few people have read since then, otherwise it would have been fixed years ago. Generally all the information about telecom is hugely outdated, the latest data coming from 2007. Events which took place years ago are referred to as future. This may be quite misleading to the reader who may think it describes the current state of affairs. Then the section goes on to describe some random historical events related to the Polish post - hardly the most important facts in the context of the whole country. In short, I think this text is unreadable and misleading and doesn't provide the reader with any useful knowledge and therefore I propose the whole section be removed whatsoever. Ustt (talk) 18:46, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

I aggree with you regarding the lelecommunications. But the history of post in Poland was specific, like the article it describes.Xx236 (talk) 12:58, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

World War II ended in 1945, World War I ended in 1918

The article mistakenly says "Poland regained independence (as the Second Polish Republic) at the end of World War II, in 1918." This should read World War I, not World War II. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.113.97.12 (talk) 19:19, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Done.Xx236 (talk) 13:05, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Forest cover

The forest cover statistics mentioned in Poland#Land use ("Poland is the fourth most forested country in Europe. Forests cover about 30.5% of Poland's land area based on international standards.", [9]) don't appear to agree with the data in List of countries by forest area: Per the source there it is neither fourth most forested nor does it have 30.5% cover.
I don't know how trustworthy the CBD source is (1), and I'm having trouble seeing the source for the facts in this article (2?), but we should get the articles in sync.
Amalthea 12:14, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

 Done I have reformatted the Polish government source to show specifics. According to what it says, the very exact numbers may fluctuate slightly from year to year because trees are harvested and replanted at different speed and/or volume according to needs. Poeticbent talk 14:14, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

POV - Poland regained independence

Partially regained, partially was created as a modern nationalistic state.Xx236 (talk) 13:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC) Mr Oliszydlowski, if you have something to write, please do it here rather than censoring. The world has changed between 1815 and 1918, at least Lithuania continued the tradition of the Commonwealth, so regained is one of several POVs.Xx236 (talk) 07:37, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 26 October 2013

Request to delete the big "Cleanup" banner at the top of the page. This seems to be one very specific issue, not an article-wide problem, hence the article-wide banner is too much. Also, having searched the article for keywords like "anthem" and "arabic", I don't have any idea what it's even referring to. 86.179.4.66 (talk) 00:30, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

86.179.4.66 (talk) 00:30, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Done. The specific issue is that the lyrics of the national anthem (the .ogg file in the infobox) appear in the Arabic script. I was hoping to find someone who can read Arabic in order to transliterate the lyrics into the official Latin-based Polish alphabet. Passengerpigeon (talk) 04:15, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, right, I can't open this ".ogg" thing, but I thought it was just an audio file, hence would not have any text attached. For my curiosity, where does the Arabic script actually appear? 81.159.108.136 (talk) 22:02, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

When you click the play button on the file, the lyrics appear above the buffer bar and change every few seconds as the song moves on, similar to a karaoke machine. Passengerpigeon (talk) 13:24, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

University of Cracow

In the section on higher education it is said that that the king Casimir established two universities: the Jagiellonian University and the University of Cracow. Obviously it is the same institution. 山猫 (talk) 18:28, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Fixed, thanks. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:08, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

How about an image of at least one female writer? Szymborska, say?

The array of the great writers, excluding any woman seems odd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.68.121.209 (talk) 22:18, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Be bold and add it. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:09, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

I've added Szymborska to the Literature section.

Oliszydlowski (talk) 17:32, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 January 2014

79.148.22.236 (talk) 16:16, 6 January 2014 (UTC) economy: second sector

Declined, due to: request impossible to understand. Please use full sentences in the future. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:28, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Education section

The section needs updating. According to the PISA 2012, Poland is now in top 10 education systems: http://www.oecd.org/pisa/keyfindings/pisa-2012-results-overview.pdf --89.128.236.143 (talk) 03:40, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Poland Republic

It is the same Slavic language thinking as Czech Republic

Pogo91 (talk) 15:17, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Please refrain from showing bias

Whether Poland is in Central Europe or not is a debatable topic. There are many different POVs regarding this. Claiming that Poland is a Central European country, and stating it as a fact in the very first sentence of the article shows bias and suggests a political agenda. This violates Wikipedia's policy of writing from a neutral point of view. Thus I have modified the article appropriately.

Regards,

Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 17:00, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Foreign Politicians

Many country pages (e.g. Uruguay, Egypt, Poland, Bulgaria, Mexico, North Korea) have images of the same foreign politicians e.g. Obama, Bush, Medvedev, Hillary Clinton, Putin, John Kerry etc present. I'm proposing such images should be moved to relevant US- or Russia- relations pages. For example it is more suitable to have two images of John Kerry on a page about US-Egypt relations than on the Egypt page. B. Fairbairn (talk) 15:58, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I don't think this is a relevant page for such a discussion - I don't see such an article here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:26, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

The current picture shows two Polish officials. At least one should be an eminent foreign politician, Russian, United States, or some other. Student7 (talk) 21:04, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

A4 Motorway picture ?

Isn't the junction more interesting File:Wezelsosnicafromthesky.JPG ? Xx236 (talk) 07:49, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Tourism - an international beer festival

Unsourced connection between the festival and tourism in Poland. It's the task of the author to prove something.Xx236 (talk) 06:08, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

I'm glad you took this to the talk page, instead of starting an edit war (like most people do when they see something they disagree with). By including the sentence about this festival in the Tourism section, I was hoping to end the edit war between Partycja90 and everyone who kept reverting their edits on that. The article about the festival itself contains external links that give enough information to prove that it exists (though the article itself is still undersourced), so that's why I saw no point in referencing any sources for that sentence. However, you're right that it still should have a reference, so I have added one accordingly. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 19:42, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

PLease don't impose your POV, the world isn't interested in a local beer festival. You have to prove not that the festival exists but that it's important, eg. has 100 000 guests from abroad every year. You have started the edit war, which I refuse to fight.Xx236 (talk) 06:40, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

You have no idea what you're talking about, mate... How can I be imposing my point of view when it was not even my decision to include this in the article? And how the hell did I start an edit war? I was not part of the edit war between Partycja90 and those who kept reverting that person's edits. I only tried to help very recently... and if you are referring to what happened recently as an "edit war", then you are deluded. I edited something, you reverted my edit without stating a reason, I reverted it back. You were dissatisfied with the result, so you took the matter to the talk page. This is normal Wikipedia procedure. If it went beyond that with the reverting and continued, only then could we consider it an edit war. I was kind and polite in my reply, acting accordingly to the instructions given by you (you were not clear in your initial post, simply saying that the statement was unsourced - I cannot read your mind and know from that little sentence what you wanted exactly), yet away you went with your bizarre accusations. Show some respect please, unless you want others to disrespect you as well.

Now - squabbling aside - the Wikipedia article for Festiwal Dobrego Piwa claims that 20 000 people attended in 2012 and that it is the largest beer festival in Poland. If this is true, then it's obvious that it is a good place for tourists as well. The article here describes 2011's festival as a large event too: http://www.gazetawroclawska.pl/artykul/400923,ii-wroclawski-festiwal-dobrego-piwa-zdjecia,id,t.html I am not really that interested in looking for evidence as to how many people attended in 2013, or before 2011, how many tourists were there, etc. If you want to improve the article, you can look for evidence yourself and provide the sources (or you can remove the statement from the subsection if no such sources can be found). You could also ask Partycja90 to do this, as they were the person who kept adding the link to that article. Either way, this isn't my fight so I'm backing out before you come up with something even more ridiculous regarding my involvement. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 17:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

No independent sources to confirm all-Polish significance of the festival to put it on the main page about Poland. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

lots of stuff in the article about booze - the article leads me to believe the population has an alcohol problem. -- Moxy (talk) 18:44, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Haha, perhaps it does. By the way, thanks for looking into this, Staszek. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 20:16, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Central/Eastern edit war

A few days ago I posted the following on this talk page: "Whether Poland is in Central Europe or not is a debatable topic. There are many different POVs regarding this. Claiming that Poland is a Central European country, and stating it as a fact in the very first sentence of the article shows bias and suggests a political agenda. This violates Wikipedia's policy of writing from a neutral point of view. Thus I have modified the article appropriately." My edit simply changed the first sentence to say that Poland is a European country, rather than in Central Europe.

No one seemed to have a problem with this until the user Powetranz came along and began reverting my edits. Since then, I've changed the content of the article to say that Poland is in East-Central Europe since this is the most accurate geographical categorization of Poland, and one that does not succumb to the bias and political agenda that come with the terms Eastern Europe or Central Europe. In theory, it should also satisfy both sides of the East vs Central argument as it mentions both. Unfortunately, Powertranz continued to revert this - determined to preserve his point of view in the very first sentence of the article.

I do not wish to continue this edit war with him (he has also been doing a similar thing on another article), so I'd appreciate it if someone with authority could step in, assess the situation fairly and take the appropriate course of action.

Regards,

Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 19:39, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

There's nothing political in calling Poland a Central European country. That's a question of cultural identity I guess.-- Bosyantek (talk) 20:50, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Most western (English) maps say "central Europe" as seen here. This is also used for travel guides as seen here or here. However when looking at history or political science books you are correct that "East Central Europe" is the term used to be more specific (the most famous is the Rothschild book that has maps Joseph Rothschild (1974). East Central Europe Between the Two World Wars. University of Washington Press. ISBN 978-0-295-80364-7.). That said your edit is neutral and people can see themselves where its located. -- Moxy (talk) 21:06, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

With all the respect:) Rothschild's book refers to the interwar period, when Polish borders were different (much more eastward oriented). Anyway, the point is, that the term Central European describes the situation after 1989, when the Iron Curtain fell. Since than, Poland (plus other countries) is no longer part of the Eastern Block, thank God. -- Bosyantek (talk) 22:15, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

But, you see, that's part of the problem. The cultural and economical differences between what is considered East, West or Centre still exist - even if to a much lesser extent than they did during the times of the Iron Curtain. Whether this is good or bad is debatable, however that does not change the fact that these differences still exist. As for geography, the concept of a Central Europe is quite pointless to begin with. The centre is just a point that is used to describe what it located around it (e.g. north, east, south, west). Moreover, it is hard to decide where it is; people cannot agree on where Europe starts and ends, let alone where the centre is. Nevertheless, if we wish to remain neutral and go by geographical calculations only - then most of the points proposed, even those that land in Poland, usually place the larger chunk of the country to the east. Thus, it seems most appropriate to call it East-Central Europe.

Also, I would argue that it is not neutral to call Poland a Central European country. This is very popular among Polish businesses nowadays, as they would rather be associated with an economic power like Germany rather than the culturally closer Ukraine (for example). It is also widespread among Polish politicians, because they seek to have closer ties with Western European countries rather than those in Eastern Europe. Thus, the most neutral way to categorize Poland is simply East-Central Europe. It is also more specific. On the other hand, if you find that East-Central Europe carries more political connotations that Central or Eastern Europe does - then perhaps the best way of settling this would be to say that Poland is simply a European country? After all, the map is there so readers can see where Poland is on it.

Anyway, I am glad to see that there are others who are keen to discuss this, unlike Powertranz. I look forward to your replies. -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 22:40, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

That's political science I'm afraid, everything is debatable. Things are happening, someone can see the pattern, writes a book about it. Someone else reads the book and writes an article "yes, but..." Because nothing can be described mathematically, there's no regularity and no axiom (certainty). Only thing you can't do is to confuse fact with opinion. Even if there is an aspiration as you say (in calling Poland Central European), that's an indicator (premise, circumstance) of growing identity (not the only one, and not the most important also). --Bosyantek (talk) 00:18, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, I accept that there is a growing identity of Central Europeans. However, there are also plenty of people in Poland (and elsewhere) who would identify as Eastern European - heck, there are some Poles who would even say they're Western European - and others who refuse to be categorized. Moreover, the case with Poland is unique in that it is geographically fairly close to multiple calculations of the centre and not far in any direction. Thus there are various opinions as to which part it should belong to even among international organizations. So why should the very first sentence of the article about Poland be biased towards the view that this country is in Central Europe?

East-Central is geographically the most accurate category for Poland, as I have stated earlier. Therefore it is also the most neutral, as it does not have the connotations of the other categories. Furthermore, usage of the term "Europa Środkowo-Wschodnia" (East-Central Europe) among Poles is becoming more and more popular, often used by both sides of the West/Central/East argument. Is this not the ideal choice out of the ones available in this case? -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 00:56, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Furthermore, the geographical locations of many European countries are described with more detail in their Wikipedia articles. On Wikipedia it is stated that: the United Kingdom is "located off the north-western coast of continental Europe", not just in Northern Europe; many countries (such as Albania, Bosnia, Bulgaria, etc.) could be classified as either Eastern Europe or Southern Europe, so their Wikipedia articles appropriately use the term Southeastern Europe instead; yet Poland, as the easternmost of the (according to many, but not all points of view) "central" countries of Europe, is just stated to be in Central Europe. It doesn't seem right that an encyclopedia uses people's definitions of what is where, rather than the actual geographical location. Regardless, I think my argument is strong and links closely with Wikipedia's rule of NPOV. I hope we can come to an agreement soon. -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 23:33, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Very well, if everyone no longer wishes to discuss this and you've finally accepted my arguments then I am glad... just please help me with those who keep reverting my edit as this is getting ridiculous. I didn't know that the English Wikipedia had a "Polish Police" to ensure that everything reflects a businessman's point of view. However, I am glad you are not one of them and discussed this with me. -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 18:09, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion no one is convinced. Again, please take a look at this and this and you will see that facts evaluation is against Wikipedia's policy. -- Bosyantek (talk) 21:12, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean? Only three people are involved in this discussion and Moxy clearly stated my edit is neutral, as well as saying that "East Central Europe is the term used to be more specific". Only you of us three seem to have a problem with this. However, so far you have not provided many arguments to support your stance on this matter, whereas I've provided plenty of in-depth explanations and that is something I believe we can both accept, is it not (whether you personally agree with me or not)? Also, you've referred me to these pages in order to make it appear as though I've broken the rules of Wikipedia, but aren't you breaking them by accepting one statement as fact (in an already controversial topic)? -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 19:23, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

A generalized statement of the problem is that most people can agree on the extremities, East, West, North and South, few people can agree on "Central." I've been on another talk page where "central" was an issue, never really satisfactorily resolved. Probably best to avoid unless (uh) central to the issue of Poland. I don't think it really is, except, as one editor pointed out, political "pushing." A good reason to avoid it's use. Student7 (talk) 01:50, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

In an article published in the 1980s, Dave Barry observed, "...I always thought of vampires as evil, uncooperative persons of Central European descent who never even file income tax returns..." Poland seems to be a bit further north for this remark to apply. And given the nature of this remark, who would want to be in Central Europe anyway? Of course, Mr. Barry is perhaps more of a reliable source on vampires than on geography. So there's that. Student7 (talk) 21:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Exactly! Hahaha, thank you for lightening up the mood around here. -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 16:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Another interesting fact I'd like to point out (one that would fit within my fourth post on here) is that Germany - one of the countries that have been known for pushing the idea of a Central Europe so much - is categorized on this Wikipedia as a "western-central" European country in the first sentence of its article... why are you so reluctant to accept Poland as a country in East-Central Europe? With so many arguments for this, many of which I've listed here earlier, the reason as to why any Wikipedian would refuse just escapes me. If you have some sort of personal stake in this then I respect that, but it shouldn't interfere with the NPOV rule. -- Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 14:20, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

If all of the arguments I have posted earlier (and the Wikipedians who have expressed acceptance and/or support of them) aren't enough, here is a list of notable sources - with links provided where possible - that describe Poland as being in East-Central Europe:

• http://www.ceem.fr/
• http://www.fas.org/man/crs/92-051.htm
• J.Winiecki, East-Central Europe: A Regional Survey. The Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia in 1993, Europe-Asia Studies, Vol. 46, No. 5 (1994), pp. 709-734
• http://unstats.un.org/unsd/geoinfo/ungegn/divisions.html
• http://www.instesw.ebox.lublin.pl/iesw/iesw.html.en
• http://ece.columbia.edu/
• O. Halecki, The limits and divisions on European history, Sheed&Ward, New York 1950, p. 120
• O. Halecki, Borderlands of Western Civilization: A History of East Central Europe, Fordham University (1952, 1980) (online)
• https://www.washington.edu/uwpress/search/books/MAGHCR.html
• http://portalwiedzy.onet.pl/87579,,,,europa_srodkowo_wschodnia,haslo.html
• http://www.igipz.pan.pl/en/zpz/banski/PDF/29_Polska_w_Europie.pdf
• http://www.forbes.pl/europa-srodkowo-wschodnia-co-zrobic-zeby-wrocic-na-sciezke-rozwoju-,artykuly,167917,1,1.html
• http://fakty.interia.pl/tylko-u-nas/news-polska-to-europa-srodkowa-niestety-nie,nId,921945
• http://www.bankier.pl/wiadomosc/S-P-otwiera-w-Polsce-centrale-na-Europe-Srodkowo-Wschodnia-3048786.html

As you can see, all of these sources have some degree of notability and some are also from Poland. The concept of East-Central Europe is not alien... it has existed for many years, both within and outside of Poland, and I believe it is the most neutral (and practically the only) form of categorization that can serve as some kind of compromise between Central Europe/Eastern Europe. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 21:10, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Looking back at the recent history of this page, it looks like someone is really determined to be a prick about this... that means I'm obviously doing something right. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 21:10, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Geographical midpoint of Europe - only one midpoint is situated in Germany, west to Poland, so Poland may be seen as "Eastern" to Western Europeans but geometrically it is situated in the Central or Western Europe.Xx236 (talk) 08:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

As I have stated numerous times earlier: the geographical midpoint of Europe varies on who calculates it, the methods used, their agenda and where they believe Europe starts and ends. You'll find that many of the calculations that claim the point lies in Poland were carried out by Poles - everyone likes to be in the centre of attention. I don't think those are good sources for an encyclopedia (unless when used to express a specific point of view). Moreover, there is not just one point in Germany... there are many different theories placing the midpoint in various countries, so it is pointless to go off that as it is impossible to reach consensus and remain reasonably neutral. Even the article you linked to offers many more points of view than you claim. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Could you please stop using Polish grammar when you post your replies? The language of this Wikipedia's edition is supposed to be English. Thanks in advance --Bosyantek (talk) 20:02, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean by Polish grammar? I'm using English and I don't see what the problem is. You should understand that it is difficult to write correctly in English when it isn't your first language, since you are a Pole too. Besides, I really don't see any significant mistakes in my replies. If you're referring to the letter ę in my username, then I can't do anything about that as it is in my username and will always be a part of the generated signature... and I don't see what the problem is with that either. Anyway, how is this even related to the argument? It sounds more like something that belongs on a personal talk page rather than here. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 00:37, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

The article quotes one midpoint in the West, in Modern day Czech Republic/Bavaria. EU isn't Europe.Xx236 (talk) 06:26, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Many more calculations exist than the ones talked about in the article; Wikipedia is not the database of everything on this planet and it is still very young and lacking in information. But ok, let's say we'll only use the points shown in, for example, File:Centre of Europe.jpg. We will remove Kleinmaischeid from the options as that was indeed chosen as the midpoint of the EU... we are then still left with 3 out of 6 points that place the larger chunk of Poland to the east. This means we're back where we started and it doesn't really help us at all. Moreover - are Turkey, Kazakhstan, Georgia, Armenia, Cyprus, Azerbaijan and Greenland in Europe? Are we going by geographical, political, cultural definitions or a combination (which one would be the most valid and why)? Are we to include the various islands that are far from the continent, but still under the control of European states? How would you then calculate the midpoint of Europe for every single variant? See, this is why I don't think your point adds anything to this discussion, though I do appreciate that you decided to get involved and contribute. Still, your point - although posted as a counterargument - doesn't really support or successfully debunk any side of the debate... all it does is start a somewhat unrelated discussion on where the centre of Europe is, and that is not the main focus of this discussion. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 21:34, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

This debate reminds me a young adult book my daughter was reading: a new boy comes to school. "Hello, I am new in the town" - "Hi, when did you move here?" - "I didn't move, the town moved." - "Huh???" (the gist of the joke was that school district boundaries were changed). The same with Poland. If there is a debate here, then IMO it would be useful to have a paragraph or section which explains how Poland moved from the East to the Center by sitting dead on the same spot, as well as other descriptions throughout the history. Eg. How it was geographically described when Rzeczpospolita was od morza do morza ("from sea to sea")? IMO it would be better than wasting time in debates who is the Center of the World. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

by sitting dead on the same spot - eg. in 1944? Xx236 (talk) 06:13, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

I had in mind the most recent move, from Evil Empire into the Common Good. Anyway, can you comment on the essence of the suggestion rather than nitpicking on an example I thought cute but turned a bit imprecise? Staszek Lem (talk) 20:06, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

@Staszek Lem: I agree that arguing about who is in the centre is basically arguing for who is better; this is one of the reasons why I despise the concept of Central Europe so much. Also, as I have mentioned previously, the idea is pointless. The concept of Central Europe exists only for two reasons: one, German politicians want to put their state on a pedestal and two, the countries of the Visegrad Group want to tell everyone how much better they are than their cousins further east (when in reality just a few decades ago we were all on the same boat). Meanwhile, the politicians and businessmen of all other neighboring countries want to be included so they can sell culture off as a commodity more successfully and, after all, we're all brought up thinking that central means better. In truth, it's all about money.

In all honesty, I am sure Poland is in Eastern Europe. It's not just what I think or what my opinion is - I am certain that Poland is an Eastern European country. Poland was founded in the east and throughout the course of its history, it has always been spreading predominantly eastwards (we can see this at its largest extent during the times of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). Even when it finally regained independence in 1918, it was clearly in the east. The geographically westernmost parts of Poland were acquired even later. Nevertheless, the majority (if not all) of the contemporary territory is still clearly in the eastern section of Europe. As a nation, Poland does have cultural ties with Western countries like Germany... but it has so much more in common with Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, Slovakia etc.

However, I am not arguing for the usage of "Eastern Europe" in the article because achieving something like it is practically impossible nowadays - especially with this gang of Poles on Wikipedia who use this website as an opportunity to advertise their country. Many people can think only of the USSR and Russia when they hear the term "Eastern Europe", but that is a flaw on their part - not on those who use the term. Eastern Europe is a much larger area than just the European part of Russia. Anyway, since I know that there are many supporters of Eastern Europe and probably just as many supporting Central Europe, I wanted to push for a compromise of East-Central Europe. It is the best option available to give everyone at least a piece of the pie, whilst remaining valid.--Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 19:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Well, whether you like it or not, the term "Eastern Europe" has become tainted. This happens all the time, to variuos degree and in different ways: towarzysz/tovarishch/comrade/Parteigenosse, "Ein Volk", swastika, etc. Like I suggested, wikipedia must explain what's happening, since it is not only "evil" intent of wikipedians who are arguing here. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:06, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

That's precisely why I suggested East-Central Europe in the first place. If the arguments I have provided in all of the posts above (since February) are not good enough, then I don't know what is. Perhaps I should just edit Poland's article again to say that it is in East-Central Europe, then refer those who choose to revert it to this page? That would be fair, both for me and them. It would also finally bring some change. After all, I would be acting within the rules of Wikipedia and being bold in my edits at the same time, which is encouraged around here. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 20:27, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

You know what? Fuck all of this to hell. It's impossible to change anything around here - not on the English Wikipedia nor the Polish Wikipedia. Even when you start numerous sensible arguments and act like a civilized person, then those who disagree with you either completely ignore all of that or treat you like shit. The beauty of Wikipedia and the entire fucking internet. I'm not going to pick on anyone here, especially since most of the people who took part in this discussion did nothing wrong - as opposed to the majority of people I have come across during my time as a Wikipedia editor. It's just that here is where I've had absolutely enough of all this, and this shouldn't have gone on for months. I hope someone bans me permanently, so that I won't feel obliged to return to such stupid conflicts... easiest way to achieve that is:

fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

Sincerely,

Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 16:11, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Take a break - take some time rethink your approach and remember Wikipedia is not about winning. Look for scholarly publications over websites ([ https://www.google.ca/search?q=Poland+East+Central+Europe&oq=Poland+East+Central+Europe&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.3323j0j4&sourceid=chrome&espv=2&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=Poland+East+Central+Europe&safe=off&tbm=bks looks here]) need to establish that this is a term uses throughout the English world as this is English Wiki. Link after link to NON-English websites that your proponents cant read will not help your position. You also mention that people over at the other Wiki feel the same as here - this may indicate the topic is much more sensitive to the Polish identity the you believe - as in it may be clear cut to an outsider but not to those that have had to live with the sigma of being in the west or east. -- Moxy (talk) 17:36, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

The article Central Europe says it includes Poland. Maybe the war should be fought out in that article.

What countries, exactly, constitute Europe? If Russia is not included (!!), this does tend to shift the center somewhat west, I would think. If Russia is included, central Europe would be east of Moscow! :)

For purposed of geography, we know where the geographic center of a country is, why don't we know where the geographic center of an area is?

There should probably be an article somewhere describing the population center of Europe as well. These are both objective statements, not subjective ones. Student7 (talk) 01:23, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Moxy, I'm quite sure this user is Polish so he is not an outsider. ;) I personally always thought that Poland was in Eastern Europe... isn't that common knowledge? But I guess people like to complicate things. Anyway, if a significant group of people aren't willing to accept this, then I guess - for what it's worth - I support the OP's idea of using East-Central Europe instead. I personally think he shouldn't have lost his temper, though looking back at the dates of some of these posts I guess it's easy to understand why he became so frustrated. Perhaps he should have used the don't-give-a-fuck philosophy, yet it looks like he gave a bit too many there at the end. And there's always that rule, which the OP should have probably applied in this case.

Copyright problem removed

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the Polish People's Republic was proclaimed

Obviously false, the name was introduced in 1952.Xx236 (talk) 12:51, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Obviously sloppy text. I've tried to fix this and another sloppery in the intro. Please review, boss. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:08, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

As far as I remeber the Polish government wasn't Marxist-Leninist. I understand that I should find sources.

About 50% of UNESCO sites in Poland aren't Polish and Lwów is listed as Ukrainian.Xx236 (talk) 07:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

• re: Marxist-Leninist. Please clarify what you have in mind. The dominant Polish United Workers' Party was M-L. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:54, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

There was a military government in Poland since 1981 based on Soviet Army. There were two Communists in Poland - Grabski and Olszowski (who emigrated to the USA, very funny).Xx236 (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

What ideology was Jaruzelski, in your opinion? Also, 'military' does not preclude to be 'Marxist'. Staszek Lem (talk) 21:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I doubt very much that any of his critics or fans regards him as a Marxist and Google doesn't show any reliable source. His father died in the SU and Jaruzelski started to respect the Soviets. Xx236 (talk) 07:36, 8 April 2014 (UTC) Jaruzelski accepted liberalisation of Polish economy (Wilczek Law 1988).Xx236 (talk) 06:36, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

• re: UNESCO sites: Again, please clarify your objection. They are in (modern) Poland and Lwow is not, right? Staszek Lem (talk) 18:54, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Auschwitz doesn't belong to Polish culture.Xx236 (talk) 07:11, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

It is correctly mentioned in the "tourism" section.Staszek Lem (talk) 21:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I mean the lead - the statement "Poland managed to preserve much of its cultural wealth. There are 14 heritage sites inscribed on the UNESCO World Heritage list in Poland" is controversial, Poland preserves several German and Rusyn sites and at least one Polish one is abroad.Xx236 (talk) 07:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Poland Brick Gothic ... St. Mary's Church, Gdańsk - Gdańsk was German and Dutch culturally, not Polish.Xx236 (talk) 06:02, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

According to History of Gdańsk, the city was almost entirely Polish from its founding in the 10th century until the early 19th century. Student7 (talk) 23:38, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

The article doesn't say anything like that. The city belonged to Poland during centuries 15-18 but it was multi-cultural. Xx236 (talk) 08:28, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

t. Mary's Church in Lübeck, the mother of all Brick Gothic churches dedicated to St. Mary in Hanseatic cities around the Baltic, is believed to be the archetype of the building.Xx236 (talk) 08:41, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Numbers of people that had to migrate

"The shift forced the migration of millions of people, most of whom were Poles, Germans, Ukrainians, and Jews " Germans were by far the numerous, looking at pre-war population numbers in eastern territories of Poland (approx 3 Mio) and eastern Germany (approx 8 Mio). So said senetnce should be "The shift forced the migration of millions of people, most of whom were Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, and Jews " Antinin (talk) 07:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Internationa rankings

Please consider adding them: Index of cognitive skills and educational attainment: http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking The glass-ceiling index : http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2013/03/daily-chart-3 Global Peace Index: http://www.visionofhumanity.org/pdf/gpi/2013_Global_Peace_Index_Report.pdf Better Life Index: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ Rule of Law Index: http://data.worldjusticeproject.org/ Political Risk (Dynamic) Index 2014: http://maplecroft.com/portfolio/new-analysis/2013/12/12/instability-and-conflict-mena-and-east-africa-drive-global-rise-political-risk-maplecroft-bpolitical-risk-atlas-2014b/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.70.80.5 (talk) 10:22, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

600,000 Soviet soldiers died in freeing Poland from German rule

freeing? Xx236 (talk) 08:03, 16 May 2014 (UTC) Better to say: overtook from Nazi Germans to establish a People's Republic of Poland, a satellite state of the USSR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.70.80.5 (talk) 10:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Changed.

Probably needs one sentence at the end of the WWII section mentioning the Polish uprising, where the Russian Army deliberately sat on its hands waiting to confront the victor. This allowed the Germans to wipe out the Polish National Army which would have opposed Russian rule. Student7 (talk) 15:16, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Too many pictures

Guys, I've removed a number of pictures to make this (huge) article more readable (in few cases there were 4 images per section!) If you don't like those pics that I have left or changed, please change them back. If you don't like the whole idea, just revert my edit, but please take a look at this article first. Thanks in advance! Bosyantek (talk) 12:56, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

I believe that you are right about too many images in the article and I agree, however the previous pictures had quality and were present on the page for years. Maybe if their size was reduced it could be better ;)

Cheers

User:Oliszydlowski (talk) 28 May 2014, 00:13 (UTC)

Thought about the WWII section and enigma

I know the section is supposed to brief since it has its own article, but the Polish contribution to cracking ENIGMA was pretty significant, and the cracking of ENIGMA was very important to the war effort, so it might be worth mentioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.31.79.145 (talk) 02:54, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2014

Remove vandalism, it says "Niemiec Kurwa" which means German Whore. So yeah. IrekBaran (talk) 19:28, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Done Thanks, Older and ... well older (talk) 19:58, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2014

8lock m1ner (talk) 03:40, 5 June 2014 (UTC) They should remove 70 mountains in Poland because its incorrect. Poland has 70 mountains over 2,000 metres (6,600 feet) in elevation, all in the Tatras. Poland has 21 mountains over 2,000 metres (6,600 feet) in elevation, all in the Tatras

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —cyberpower ^Chat_Online 12:04, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Rzeczpospolita Slazoki MOC

Every European country article in the English Wikipedia begins with the English language word for that country, except this article as I found it. I edited it for consistancy, but saw a worrisome note in the source saying not to edit the introduction. I still think that Rzeczpospolita Slazoki MOC is vandalism, and have thus replaced it with Poland. I have nothing but the best of intentions, and do not want to get into an edit-war. Before you change it back, could you post here the reasons this should be the only article about a European country that starts with a non-English word? Thanks, Nick Beeson (talk) 14:03, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. the 'en' in 'en.wikipedia.org' stands for 'English' and article titles should reflect what a native speaker in that language would most likely expect that title to be. I think that the guidelines in Wikipedia:Article_titles are pretty clear. Nyth83 (talk) 20:14, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 June 2014

Section WWII should include the following statement from Czech_Republic, that on German annexation of Czech republic, Poland annexed the Zaolzie area around Český Těšín , as Poland's first contribution to WW2. 2001:4C50:100:5:ED7C:738E:3B9D:22BF (talk) 23:11, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 07:39, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

"Poland managed to preserve" - POV

Poland lost heritage sites in the East and obtained not quite Polish sites in the West. It's not preservation but rather swapping.Xx236 (talk) 12:53, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

• Is Auschwitz-Birkenau Poland's cultural wealth?
• The Centennial Hall was comstructed by Germans to commemorate German victory and the fall of Poland. Xx236 (talk) 07:29, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Why are you using this page as some sort of WP:SOAPBOX? Are you trying to make a constructive point? If so, what on earth is it? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 10:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Are you a superboss here who examins editors?

I'm writing that the lead contains a false statement. I believe that leads should inform, which means that they should contain standard and verified informations. Is such opinion nonstandard?

Is the Babi Yar Ukraine's cultural wealth? Don't you find such statement strange? Xx236 (talk) 12:52, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Why don't you try presenting your point/objection, and explaining where the contradiction is to be found and how you think it should be addressed/redressed through reliable sources. Every time I encounter your comments on talk pages, you've left some form of cryptic howl of disdain, or simply a link to a blog or forum. If you have an issue you wish to bring up relevant to the content of the article, explain yourself in a manner where other users don't have to try to unravel what you are objecting to. If you try to interact in a collaborative manner (i.e., actually communicating rather than bewailing obscure points), you might elicit a positive response. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:41, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Actually, yes, Au-Bi is cultural wealth today, if you recall that the word "wealth" has meanings other than $$$ . Staszek Lem (talk) 02:31, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, Staszek, apparently Xx236 sees the evolution of cultures and ethnic groups as being black and white, and would prefer that context be omitted. Anything perceived of as being a negative should be redacted. Following that logic, that means that 'The Deluge' should also be omitted just for starters. Evidently, Poland (and every other nation) existed, and continues to exist, in a vacuum. It has no historical context: just was and is. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:25, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Auschwitz-Birkenau is black and white, where do you find the colours? It was created by Germans for Poles and finally was the place of mass extermination of Jews. Auschwitz-Birkenau belongs to German culture, German technology, the same like many buildings in Western and Northern Poland, eg. the Churches of Peace, which had no slightest connection to Polish cultural wealth till 1945. I know this but the article is for everyone and it misinforms. Xx236 (talk) 05:55, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

If someone is oblidged to source his/her texts it's the author of preserve much of its cultural wealth not me. BTW - preserve much of its cultural wealth is Polish nationalistic language, claiming that Piast lands were always Polish, very funny that you defend it.Xx236 (talk) 05:55, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

First Babi Yar, now Auschwitz-Birkenau. If you get any more lateral, you may just fall off the planet. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

If you have reasons to believe that some statement is false, you are welcome to tag it in the text. As of Aushwitz being cultural heritage of Poland, is UNESCO reference not good enough for you? Please keep in mind there is nothing unusual for some object be of cultural heritage for several Nations. From modern events, let me remind you that Crimea is cultural heritage for Tatars, Ukrainians and Russians. Also, Tadeusz Kościuszko a national hero for Poland, Lithuania, Belarus, and the United States. And so on. Staszek Lem (talk) 22:12, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

The lead contains phrase Poland managed to preserve much of its cultural wealth. It doesn't say Poland managed to preserve much of international cultural wealth or Poland managed to preserve much of Polish and German cultural wealth. Xx236 (talk) 07:22, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Economy section

Economy section doesn't mention anything about crippling poverty, persistent high unemployment in Poland and millions of Poles living in terrible living conditions or fleeing the country in search of jobs to feed themselves. This section should be changed to reflect the real situation of Polish people--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:04, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia needs sources and numbers rather than emotions.

I would add the problem of Euro-orphans, children whose parents work abroad.Xx236 (talk) 06:01, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Poor quality, filled with "weasel words"

I was very surprised at how badly written this article is. Poland is a large European country, and the article is likely to be visited by quite many people. Despite that, it seems to read more like a tourist brochure than an encyclopaedic article, as the whole text is filled with small 'weasel words' that convey subjective, un-encyclopaedic views. I give just a few examples below, the whole article is similar

• "Sigismund's Chapel of the Wawel Cathedral, one of the finest examples of the renaissance architecture North of the Alps"
• "Rising gently above these lowlands is a geographical region..."
• "Holidaymakers relax at the Lake Solina "
• "the Polish lakes provide an invaluable location for the pursuit of water sports"
• "Present day Poland is a country with great agricultural prospects"
• "This has led Poland to be described on occasion as the future 'bread basket of the European Union'"
• "This situation is likely to soon change for the better "
• "Poland is the most important breeding ground for European migratory birds" (might be true, but no source is given)
• "Poland is one of the most stable and peaceful countries." (Links to Global Peace Index where Poland comes in at 25th. Not bad, but only 15th in Europe so not that noteworthy either)
• "Elements of what is called now human rights may be found in early times of the Polish state." (unsourced again)
• "Unfortunately, the adoption of such a liberal constitution was treated as a grave threat by Poland's more autocratic neighbours."
  

These are only a few examples, the whole article is written in this way. It is quite frankly an embarassment for Wikipedia (and for Poland) that an article of such relative importance is this poorly written. I'm tagging it for POV, and it will take a major revision of the article to bring it up to encyclopaedic standards.Jeppiz (talk) 14:29, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• This is a high visibility article, but you're welcome to improve on it if you can. I suggest small, incremental edits first, with an ample amount of time to finish your work. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 14:46, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• I know how Wikipedia works, thanks. And yes, I plan to help in improving the article. Your removal of the tag without commeting on any of the issues is problematic. I'm restoring the tag, further removal without solving the problems will be reported.Jeppiz (talk) 14:49, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• Please keep in mind that the wp:tag bombing is not helpful similar to flagging the entire article due to eg. Wikipedia:I just don't like it for whatever litte faults I can find. A single "cn" tag at the end of a paragraph should suffice... if there aren't any references there to begin with. Thanks, Poeticbent talk 15:14, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

• Would you stop assuming bad faith, please? This is not about WP:IDONTLIKEIT, it's about the quality of the article. Articles on Wikipedia should be neutral in tone, not using subjective markers time and time again. A good article is a neutral, sourced encyclopaedic article, not an article that use subjective markers to make subjective points. At Wikipedia we report facts, we don't evaluate them. And placing tags directly after the unsourced claims is usually more helpful than tagging an entire paragraph that may have other, soruced facts.Jeppiz (talk) 15:22, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Looks like you (or someone) has fixed most of these. Thanks for pointing them out. Touristy stuff, flowery words, puffery, can be changed immediately by anyone IMO. Student7 (talk) 17:52, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

The solid improvement of such big article requires a significant amount of work for a long time. Everyone interested in can do something good eg by improving style of a chosen piece of text. Native speakers are best for this work and therefore they are very welcome here. And so I strongly invite you to cooperate :) --Rewa (talk) 22:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

The issues listed above aren't so much "POV" as style issues. I do agree that some portions of the article could use a good copy edit. And additional sourcing.Volunteer Marek (talk) 08:18, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

---It is easy to criticize the work of others, without making any worthy contribution - let us work together to make the necessary improvements to make this article as factual and unbiased as need be. IMHO it already looks good! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julieprus (talk • contribs) 04:57, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

37.1 mln

According to Eurostat rules Poland has 37.1 mln of residents or 36.8 mln.Xx236 (talk) 07:28, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Parada vs. Marsz

Certainly not two pictures of the Parada. This picture of the Marsz suggests that it's dominated by a small party - I doubt it very much. Xx236 (talk) 10:38, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

• There's nothing to compare:
  • parade - hundreds of people, virtually unknown in Poland
  • march - national day, a day off from work, 120,000 people

Globetrotter1918 (talk) 11:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Personally I don't like either of these celebrations, but I have to agree with Globetrotter1918 that the Independence March which takes place in Warsaw every November is certainly a much larger and known event than Schuman Parade. I think most Poles have probably never even heard of the Schuman Parade or at least don't give it much thought, whilst the Independence March is hard to not notice when tens of thousands of angry men march through the city shouting nationalist slogans. It makes top news every year and there is always plenty of stuff left behind after it. Whereas the Schuman Parade... it is practically unknown in comparison. This is an encyclopedia - not a tourist guide, so if you want to be as unbiased as possible then you all know which image should take the spot.

This is actually something I've noticed throughout Wikipedia: there is a large group of Polish editors who dedicate the vast majority of their time on this website to presenting Poland as a progressive, economically powerful, civilized, Eurocentric country in Central Europe where everyone loves the EU. Whether you like it or not, that simply isn't true. In truth it's a conservative, poverty-ridden, over-privatized country in Eastern Europe, with a government that loves the EU and a population that mostly hates it. I'm not a fan or hater of the EU, but I'm not going to take part in distorting the facts on here. The things that are going on in the Wikipedia pages related to Poland are pathetic to say the least. Instead of actually doing something to improve the situation at home, people are fixated on the idea of falsely advertising their country online. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 20:01, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

a population that mostly hates it? Any sources? Xx236 (talk) 07:31, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

• None. All the public opinion polls say the same: Poles are truly EU enthusiasts. Take for instance the most recent CBOS report: 89% in favour, 7% against. Boston9 (talk) 13:58, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

The poll was regarding membership in EU. To like membership in EU and to like EU are not the same things. Likewise, our colleague SW does not like many things in Poland, but I doubt he wants to dissociate himself from Poland. Staszek Lem (talk) 03:34, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, let's all go on a diversion and look for sources regarding Polish satisfaction/dissatisfaction with the EU. Why on earth would you be wasting your time on that? Firstly, most Poles don't seem to care about sources at all when they're editing Wikipedia. Secondly, the nationwide degree of satisfaction with EU membership is irrelevant to the topic at hand. Thirdly, the marsz is bigger than this other thing and you know that unless you've never set foot in Poland during November. Last but not least, have a nice day all of you - I'm not going to stay here and argue for or against including a photograph of a bunch of racist idiots marching about my hometown, I just wanted to point out the sad facts. Antisemitism, EU-hating and the far-right are things I cannot tolerate... but my country is rife with them, so I cannot tolerate living in a fantasy world where everything is fine and dandy. --Samotny Wędrowiec (talk) 21:51, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Many Poles prefer the Court of Justice of the European Union rather than Polish administration.Xx236 (talk) 06:31, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 October 2014

Please change the picture subtitle of the picture showing Mr. Tusk and Mr. Walesa in the politics/foreign affaird section to "President elect of the European Council Donald Tusk (right) arrives with former President and Nobel Peace Prize Lech Wałęsa for the EPP party congress in Warsaw." Mr. Tusk is not yet inaugurated as President of the European Council and thus it should be "President elect". Kind regards LutzSkywalker (talk) 07:33, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Done Stickee (talk) 13:05, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 October 2014

"Seaports exist all along Poland's Baltic coast, with most freight operations using Szczecin, Świnoujście, Gdynia and Gdańsk as well as Police, Kołobrzeg and Elbląg as their base."

Port of Elbląg became the fourth most important seaport in Poland. Please change the position of Port of Elbląg in the hierarchy. Paweł Sutkowski (talk) 16:12, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article.
Furthermore, we do not have an article on Port of Elbląg, which would help your claim to notability, although we do have one on Elbląg - Arjayay (talk) 20:21, 21 October 2014 (UTC)

Outdated information in Politics section

There is an outdated information visible in the Politics section of the article:

"The prime minister, Donald Tusk, was appointed in 2007 after his Civic Platform party made significant gains in that year's parliamentary elections. In 2011, Tusk was reelected."

Should be, exempli gratia:

"The prime minister, Ewa Kopacz, was appointed in 2014 after the resignation of Donald Tusk."

Kindly --Vyqe (talk) 06:45, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Done. Boston9 (talk) 16:19, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Image Clean-up

I'd like to recommend an image clean up for the entire page to reduce clutter. Many of the pictures do not correlate directly to the text, also there is an abundance of Jan Matejko paintings that represent events in Polish history; ideally we should be using contemporary images dating to the time of the events shown. Finally, many of the images are not the best representation of a given item, with better quality images available in Wiki Commons. --E-960 (talk) 02:38, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

For user Poeticbent's sake I'll restate my thoughts on the current choice of images, and why I think we can do better.

• Why do we have so many Jan Matejko paintings illustrating events in Poland's history? Images of contemporary sources should be used to highlight those events.
• Why is there so many images of Wroclaw, even when no mention of the city is present in a given text?
• Why so many images do not even correspond to the section? Example: Image of Copernicus in Jagiellon dynasty section… there is no mention of him there.
• Why do we have poor quality images for many of the sections? I think we can do better and pick an image that illustrates the subject matter.
• Why do some of the images are pointless? Example: the Sky Tower image in the Corporations section, a building is not a corporation… but, when I added a image of the Solaris Bus & Coach one of Poland's most successful manufactures user Poeticbent called the files crummy.

Some editors may not agree with my approach but, the images have so may issues, due to sloppy editing which breaks WP rules for proper image selection, it will take a painfully long time to fix the problem one item at a time. It appears that many of the image choices were just added with out any consideration for the text. Now, why should they stay if they completely disregard WP guidelines. --E-960 (talk) 13:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

• Hi, User:E-960. Indeed, some of the files you found at Commons are more captivating than others (F-16 Fighting Falcon, for example), and I would recommend to have them reinserted. But please, don't get me wrong. You opened a discussion about the overhaul of the entire article while performing your unilateral overhaul, not earlier; that's why your edit was reverted. No hard feelings please. The article needs work; there are way to many citation needed tags, not to mention the formatting errors. Matejko is the least of our worries. Most images of contemporary sources are better suited in child articles because they would not be interesting enough to look at. Poeticbent talk 14:22, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

But, what do you propose then… we can't just go one image at a time it will take forever. I would recommend we revert to my earlier edit, and then I can go in and start to fix some of the text. But, if we debate every detail this article will never get fixed. By the way, the F-16 is not that important how about the map of Mieszko's Poland, I changed the map to the one that says Civitas Schinesghe the first name of the country before the common Poland was adopted. That' the stuff we want to include. --E-960 (talk) 14:47, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

• There's no rush. In fact, our article on Poland is the broadest and most comprehensive overview of Poland anywhere on the internet, outside of the actual book monographs such as the ones in Google Books. You can show your genuine interest in improving it by replacing citation requests with references first, since you seem to know quite a bit about Poland if Civitas Schinesghe is any indication. However, Poland was not explicitly mentioned in it... If you look at the history of this page, you will notice the fierce fighting based on personal preferences. We don't want that. One master of puppets was not only blocked and indefed recently, but also locked out of the entire project as a result. His edits to this article have not been analyzed carefully enough yet. Poeticbent talk 15:48, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I can definitely help out in that respect, images were the easy part, since you did not have to look to outside sources to find then... they are all in Wiki Commons. So, I'll start to look for citations to for the highlighted statements. --E-960 (talk) 14:17, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Not only GG

Auschwitz and Chełmno extermination camp belonged to Reich, not GG.Xx234 (talk) 13:33, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for noting that. I will fix it in the next edit. Poeticbent talk 13:45, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

on 1 August 1944 they initiated Operation Tempest ?

Operation Tempest was initiated long before 1 August in the East. It's the day for Warsaw.Xx234 (talk) 13:44, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

Fixed. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Mention that homosexuality was never illegal in Poland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Decriminalization_of_Homosexuality_by_country_or_territory.svg--147.142.61.127 (talk) 13:06, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Not sure that homosexuality was ever illegal anyplace. It was sodomy, the practice of homosexuality, that was illegal. Student7 (talk) 17:53, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Actually, before we get ourselves more confused, Student7, a sizeable portion of homosexuals do not engage in sodomy. As to whether homosexuality was never illegal, it would have to be supported by reliable sources, not assumptions. If there are no sources, there should be no related content in the article. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:31, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

The correct way to address it is: never criminalised. Basically in no legal documents there is a mention of penalties for it: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nW5FAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=homosexuality+never+criminalised+poland&source=bl&ots=N0tsQv82K1&sig=3tiE8ADHX9oBiSSDcWydC-WaLEY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=welaVKz1EojdPdTlgOAG&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=homosexuality%20never%20criminalised%20poland&f=false --86.3.200.81 (talk) 03:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

WWII Section

Just want to add a bit of input on the WWII image choices… the section maybe a bit strong and all, with images of graves, a map of German extermination sites, tanks and expelled civilians. The section may come across as a bit too much. Any thoughts? --E-960 (talk) 20:42, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

I'd change the "Beginning of Lebensraum, the Nazi German expulsion of Poles from central. Poland, 1939" image to something else; it doesn't seem very interesting and is a bit hard to make out what's happening on the image from the thumb. File:Germans at Polish Border (1939-09-01).jpg I think is more iconic and interesting. Any objections to switch? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:41, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

The image showing expulsion of Poles by Germans is better as it clearly shows what was happening TO THE POLES, while "Germans at the Polish border" is a bit too weird, as it's rather symbolic than realistic situation. 195.69.81.75 (talk) 09:43, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I don't know how to describe WWII in Poland in four pictures, maybe in ten, but never in four. It was a series of wars fought around Europe and in North Africa, the Holocaust of Jews and Roma, the extermination of Poles, Sovietization supported by FDR.Xx234 (talk) 12:34, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I would prefer if we switched out the "grave" image or the map of "extermination camps" (which was added last week) the combination of the pictures just makes the section overly somber. We want to highlight the war atrocities. But, not in such a strong way in the country article. Lets not make Poland into WWII-land. I personally recommend these three images which are informative, but less dramatic, and to the point.

• [[10]] Map of Poland signed by Ribbentrop and Mołotow
• [[11]] 303 "Koscuszko" Squadron - Battle of Britain (mentioned in the text)
• [[12]] Poster announcing the death penalty for Jews and Poles who hid them

--E-960 (talk) 17:28, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

The pilots are fine, but the map and the poster, while significant, are not very "interesting", visual-wise, I feel. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 06:52, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

• The File:Mapa 2 paktu Ribbentrop-Mołotow.gif is so completely unapealing visually, rough (size: 22 KB), and semantically empty that (based on that one example), I question the usefulness of this entire thread. Poeticbent talk 14:48, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

For your information, the File:WW2-Holocaust-Poland.PNG is one of the more frequently visited images of the Holocaust in occupied Poland with the average of 30 hits per day, and up to over three hundred in 24 hours. Poeticbent talk 15:14, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Ok, well I'm getting a bit annoyed with the arrogance. Poland is not just Copernicus, Chopin, the Pope, and WWII. Try to emphasize something else in the article, would ya? --E-960 (talk) 17:37, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

What arrogance? Our illustrations should be both most relevant and most appealing - a compromise of those two factors. Where's arrogance in that? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:53, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

English Proficiency Index 2014

It needs updating: http://www.ef.co.uk/epi Well done, Poland!--86.3.200.81 (talk) 20:44, 13 November 2014 (UTC)