Talk:Plot twist

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Spoilers

I know the article "calls" for it, but is it really necessary to add examples about significant films? I know we don't have the "spoiler" tag anymore, but the revelation of a plot twist like the one in The Usual Suspects might go in detriment of the overall enjoyment of the film. Thief12 (talk) 01:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Usual Suspects came out 13 years ago. How long must we protect the plots of entertainment media?--WPaulB (talk) 17:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A list of examples of twist endings is essentially a list of spoilers. This is certainly one of the most spoiler-filled articles on Wikipedia. Why did we lose the "spoiler" tag? What's wrong with giving a heads up? Jost77 (talk) 14:24, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Examples are totally irrelevant, we need to explain different types of plot twists.

I don't see the point of a section on examples of plot twists. Why? Because people don't learn anything new about plot twists from these examples. They are merely a list of the author's favorite plot twists and are difficult to understand to people who have not seen these pieces of fiction. Rather, I would suggest a list of notable types of plot twists, such as:

-The revelation of previously unmentioned family (or other) connections between characters,: see Star Wars.

-The revelation that seemingly evil characters are doing wrong deeds in the service of a greater good, thus blurring morality, Halo

-the revelation of the unreliability of certain viewpoints, i.e., that characters were having hallucinations or were biased in their accounts to the reader: fight Club

etc, etc, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alwayssummerdays (talk • contribs) 21:19, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we need to get ourselves out of the idea that the world began in 1985? --NellieBly (talk) 01:02, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Maybe we need to get ourselves out of the idea that the world began in 1985?"

Could you please explain what you mean? Jost77 (talk) 14:30, 10 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OR Failure?

IMHO, this article is a case where WP:OR fails us. Notable movie plot twists include...

"No, I am your father."
It was Earth all along.
He saw dead people.
Norman's mother
Tyler Durden
Kaiser Sose
Dil

As I understand OR, none of these can be mentioned as a matter of culture -- all require references. Yet I'm finding it difficult to locate references to significant plot twists.

Most of the sources I find discussing plot twists are all blogs. I did find an Ebert review of The Crying Game, but it's more of a plot summary than a discussion of plot twists (and goes out of its way to not mention the major twist in the film).

Alwayssummerdays commented on different types of plot twists, though frankly I'm not sure how many examples can practically be provided. Vader would be a previously unrecognized familial relationship. But all the others, near as I can tell, would represent bias with respect to the viewer. In most cases, I'd say bias is the source of the twist.

In the article, Voldemort is mentioned. I don't consider that a plot twist at all. It was obvious to the reader, from book one, that Harry'd be facing him at some point. Luke's discovery of the Force -- not a plot twist. His father? Definitely a twist.

I'm inclined to replace the current examples with the list I've assembled above, but can only offer opinion on what represents a plot twist. -FeralDruid (talk) 04:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I just looked at the Twist ending article, and am not sure why a Plot twist article needs to exist at all. While the other refers specifically to the surprise at the end of a film (Planet of the Apes, Fight Club, The Usual Suspects, etc.), the descriptions of the types of twists are, IMHO, perfectly sufficient to discuss twists in general. I'm inclined to say that article should be renamed Plot twists, with all twist-related articles referring to it. -FeralDruid (talk) 04:14, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When I saw the existance of two articles, one for plot twists and one for twist endings, I found it strange. The twist ending article does say that a twist ending is the conclusive form of plot twists, so if they have such a close relation, maybe the articles should be merged, with the explanation of the plot twist and later the twist ending. For instance, Vader being Luke's father would be a twist ending, since it's the ending of the episode V. As for the NO, I guess there's no research that has created a list of endings that are considered twist endings, so it would be hard to get a list that is not merely based on an opinion. Uberflaven (talk) 19:57, 1 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Time to close this. Clearly no consensus for merge. -- P 1 9 9 ✉ 18:05, 12 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I just came across List of plot twists, which was proposed for merge into this article in August, but the user that proposed the merge didn't add a merge template on this article or create a discussion. So, here it is. I support this merge, as List of plot twists is highly unnecessary as a separate article, not to mention one that could be extended almost indefinitely. We only need to list a few of the most famous examples of plot twists (Planet of the Apes, The Usual Suspects, The Sixth Sense, etc) so readers get the idea; we shouldn't be trying to list every single one. (TV Tropes exists for that sort of thing.) Please add your own comments below. Robofish (talk) 17:26, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, on closer inspection, that's more or less what this article does already. Maybe List of plot twists should just be redirected here. Robofish (talk) 17:29, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Agree Wikipedia should not list every plot twist. Rather, there should be a justification for listing one in the first place. --Spannerjam (talk) 15:59, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree with the merge. The merits of this article are another consideration that could be debated, but I don't believe that it should be merged with plot twist. It would balloon the article, and we often have lists separated. —Ost (talk) 21:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I also disagree, this article deals with the literary aspects and the other article deals with famous plot twists, usually from films. The other article must be held to a high standard and be required to WP:VERIFY AND show WP:NOTABLE but that is a different discussion. There is a distinct difference and both articles are considerably long already. A merge would reduce the clarity and consistency of both articles. Also since this proposal is so damned old and no one has been bold enough to do anything about it, I doubt it will ever happen. I don't think it is a good idea at all, after two years is it not time to remove the tag already. -- 109.78.90.212 (talk) 00:21, 1 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I Negate. The merge should not occur because the resultant article would be more difficult to comprehend than either one of the articles are apart. At this point, the Plot twist article is easy to chew and that could be corrupted by the list. In addition, I affirm 109.78.90.212 that the articles are logically different because the list gives well-known examples whereas Plot twist focuses on general explanation and classification. By the way,how long the merge request has been up for is irrelevant. Mr. Guye (talk) 03:49, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Reference [6] is offline

Maybe someone wants to fix that and find a replacement video: This video is no longer available because the uploader has closed their YouTube account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.108.19.134 (talk) 21:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

plot twists specific

a plot twist is like The Hunger Games the whole book is based on a rule but then it change so the whole thing turns out to be complete different — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.83.48.222 (talk) 22:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, it is when the reader's beliefs about the plot are shaken. Not necessarily a 'rule change'. Mr. Guye (talk) 04:09, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Twists are twists

A plot twist can happen at any point, and twist "endings" aren't intrinsically different in how they're done from twists in the middle. (e.g. "I am your father" is not actually an ending, just an ending of that chapter.) So I've changed the "Mechanics" section to apply to twists in general. Magic9Ball (talk) 14:02, 19 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Don't match established definition

Poetic justice, Chekhov's gun, and In medias res as presented in the article don't seem to match the definition established in the header that a Plot Twist is "a radical change in the direction or expected outcome of the plot" and should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.244.108 (talk) 22:43, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and I have removed them.—Anita5192 (talk) 01:05, 10 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]