Talk:Pia Wurtzbach

Background confusion

List place of birth and hometown as different places. But "hometown" is where you are born.

Not necessarily - hometown is where you grow up - especially for those of us who grew up in communities without hospitals (hence no one was born there) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.1.212.67 (talk) 17:06, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

I agree. Home is where the heart is. :) I usually count as somebody's hometown where they were in high school.--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 03:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Also, is she really half German? She looks 100% Pacific Islander...119.92.93.84 (talk) 09:15, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Wurtzbach, typical Filipino, right? 80.136.86.62 (talk) 17:23, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

One cannot tell by looking at somebody what their background is. There are a wide variety of Germans just as there are a wide variety of Filipinos. Nor is a name any help. A name can be passed down from several generations back. Just because she has a Germans-sounding name doesn't mean that she is German in any way.--Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 03:16, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Pia spent many holidays in the south of Germany and knows how to cook some German dishes. I do question the part about being fluent in German, though - I'd rate it as -2 on our own Wikipedia scale. She certainly values having a German passport because having a Philippines passport can be a real drag from the visa-in-advance point of view... BushelCandle (talk) 03:48, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

This should be the last time Steve Harvey hosts any pageant. Quis separabit? 18:57, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Filipino-German or German-Filipino?

Typically after the hyphen is the country of residence or citizen whereas before the hyphen is the country of ethnicity. So, an Irish-American would be someone ethnically Irish who lives in the U.S. An African-American is an American of African origin. A Filipino-American is an American of Filipino origin while an American-Filipino would be a Filipino of American origin. Therefore shouldn't Pia -- born in West Germany but then moving to the Philippines -- be a German-Filipino? She is a Filipino of (part) German origin and not a German of Filipino origin. --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 09:28, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

I think there is a case for either usage.

It's complicated by the fact that both countries' nationality laws are based on jus sanguinis which means that at birth she automatically had dual nationality - German and Filipina - derived from both parents. What I know about her tells me that she seems to be far more Filipina in cultural affiliation but we could skip over it entirely until we have reliable sources.

Incidentally this question of nomenclature has cropped up on other pages when there is only one nationality (the country of residence) but certain citizens of that country, because of their distinctive ethnic affiliations are likely to be "hyphenated" citizens - sometimes by the majority population and sometimes by themselves. (I myself, would need at least 4 hyphens going by just my grandparents!). BushelCandle (talk) 10:24, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Later: Technically speaking, although I am personally convinced that she will have both Filipina and German nationalities by virtue of the nationalities of her married parents at the time of her birth, we do not yet have reliable sources even for her nationalitie(s), never mind for how she should be described in ethnic/nationality terms. I have, therefore, removed the pertinent descriptor from the opening section.

This removal is without prejudice to the remaining text in the "Early life and education" section which currently (and sufficiently, in my view) states: "Wurtzbach was born in Stuttgart, Baden-Württemberg, in then West Germany, to a German father and Filipino mother". BushelCandle (talk) 22:45, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

What's the case of "Filipino-German"?

It is a question of English language usage, not of law, and so the fact that both countries are jus sanguinis doesn't seem relevant to me. Citizenship is not involved in what order for this English speaker, only her ethnicity and residency (though she is likely a Filipino citizen, having represented the Philippines in Miss Universe). To say that she is "Filipino-German" tells this English speaker that she lives in Germany and has at least part Filipino ethnicity. Saying that she is "German-Filipino" tells me that she lives in the Philippines and has at least part Germany ethnicity. Are there any examples in English where the last half of the such an hyphenated phrase does not refer to the country they live in or immigrated to? I cannot think of any but there might be a few out-liers; English like all languages is organic and not consistent in its usage. There are examples of unhyphenated phrases, such as Malay Singaporeans. (I avoid using phrase "nationality" because it has a vague definition with at least two different meanings, ethnicity and citizenship.) --Iloilo Wanderer (talk) 06:09, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

In that case, I'm even more convinced that my removal (at least until adequate sourcing can be arranged) is essentially correct since Pia does not currently reside (either physically or for tax purposes) in the Philippines. By your logic we should employ the cryptic and convoluted
Filipina/German-British/American construction for her (since she spends substantial amounts of time in both the British Isles and North America).

No, I really do think we should eschew these sorts of labels and just stick to sourced facts alone. BushelCandle (talk) 06:21, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Isn't Wurzbach the child of a German father and a Filipina mother, born in Germany? This makes her a German-Filipina by definition. Her last name, father and country of birth are all German. Mythic Writerlord (talk) 14:17, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I don't think anyone here is disputing the facts.

However, what label is put on those facts is (and has been) the subject of dispute.

Do you have a reliable source for your 'definition'? And, more to the point, do you have a reliable and overwhelmingly authoritative source for the idea that Pia should be labelled in this way when you could equally well call her a Filipino-German ?

The lack of an authoritative resolution of this question is why I maintain we should both avoid labelling her (and edit wars) in the infobox. The facts (as opposed to trite labelling) are adequately discussed in the body prose. BushelCandle (talk) 22:29, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

MOS:ETHNICITY and WP:BIOLEAD state that the lede sentence should be where the subject is most notable as a person and that "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable" ... "Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability". Per the sources in her article, Wurtzbach was born in Germany but moved to the Philippines as a child. She grew up in the Philippines and her notability is more as a Filipino (or Filipina). She rose to prominence representing the Philippines in the Miss Universe pageant and her acting career is most notable in the Philippines. Someone like Catriona Gray has a better argument for why she is labelled "Filipina-Australian", given how she was born and actually raised in Australia, completing her high school education there before moving to the Philippines to represent the country in Miss Universe. Wurtzbach was just born in Germany, but her upbringing, notability and so on have all been in the Philippines. "German-born FIlipina" or just leaving it as "Filipina [insert occupations]" would make more sense in accordance with Wiki guidelines. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 07:44, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Moving language from lead to section:early life

@BushelCandle: Hi! I noticed that you reverted a recent edit (see diff) of mine. I moved that info because language proficiency is not notable enough to be in the lead (MOS:BLPLEAD). Early Life seems OK to me as it deals with ethnicity (German-Filipino) and the sentence about language could be integrated into it.  Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:09, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for mentioning Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies#Opening paragraph, I found it very informative. May I say right away that, if you feel strongly about this, then please revert my reversion, Lemongirl942.

I have read and re-read the relevant MoS passages and can't find anything directly relevant about language ability. I can find nothing in what you cite to uphold that language proficiency is automatically not notable or even that only notable subjects need to feature in the lead. If that was the case then we would hardly ever note that someone is born in the US since millions are each year, for example. No, The nutshell seems to be that the opening paragraphs should establish notability, neutrally describe the person, and provide context. Surely her relatively unusual language proficiency combination (for either Filipinas or Germans) is contextual information?

A difficulty that we have here is that this article is comparatively very short and a variety of drive-by-editors seem to want to shorten it even further. (I hope folks won't take offence if I compare only its length to that of our Maria Ozawa BLP - who achieved notability in a different field entirely.) The sentence about language does not fit naturally into any of the three subsections we currently have but I hope that if the material is expanded, it may find a suitable home away from the lead section. Obviously it's a judgement call, but right now my judgement is that it is in the marginally best of 4 possible places.

Lastly, do you detect a potential dichotomy in the language between Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section - which talks about the entire opening section - and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biographies#Opening paragraph - which is headed paragraph in the singular? Indeed the language at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section#Biographies makes this distinction in an even more pronounced way, by writing For more details on the formatting of the first sentence of biographical articles, see MOS:BLPLEAD (my underlining added)

BushelCandle (talk) 06:34, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

@BushelCandle: Hi! Thank you for your reply. To be fair, I also did not find any explicit guideline/convention about including language ability in BLP and MOSBLPLEAD. However, I did find a couple of other articles about Miss Universe winners which mention language (see Lara Dutta and Paulina Vega) and both seem to mention it in the early life section. My decision was based on previous instances where the early life section contains references to languages known. In addition, the reason why I thought the language ability was not appropriate in the lead was because Pia Wurtzbach is notable for being miss universe and not because of her language ability. If her notability was due to her language ability, then it would be appropriate to keep it in the lead section.

I would disagree that language establishes context here. Among the BLP leads I have seen, I have only seen nationality/location being mentioned universally (to establish context). Very few BLPs talk about language ability at all. Even the article on Maria Ozawa mentions her language in the 'early life' section. I guess my judgement is that early life seems a good enough place to keep the sentence. Even if the article is expanded, the information on language ability is usually mentioned in "Early Life" or "Personal Life" (from my previous experience).

As for your third point, thank you for pointing this out. There does seem to be a dichotomy. If I am not wrong, it should be "first paragraph" instead of "first sentence"? --  Lemongirl942 (talk) 13:44, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2021

Text says parents separated when she was 9 years old. Referenxe 8) is being provided as source. However, reference 8) says she was 11 years old at that time. 41.114.240.107 (talk) 21:23, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

 Done. ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ (talk) 15:55, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

"Pia (entertainer, born 1989)" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Pia (entertainer, born 1989). The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 September 6#Pia (entertainer, born 1989) until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Regards, SONIC⁶⁷⁸ 17:13, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2022

She’s starring in my papa pi a sitcom. Please add on her filmography since it will premiere on March 2022.

https://news.abs-cbn.com/amp/entertainment/02/12/22/pia-wurtzbach-is-piolos-leading-lady-on-my-papa-pi 103.105.212.78 (talk) 15:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

 Already done Already included in filmography table. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:53, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

personal development

make a reflection about Pia Wurtzbach 120.28.220.120 (talk) 12:09, 11 August 2024 (UTC)