Talk:Phạm Thận Duật

A fact from Phạm Thận Duật appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 20 November 2018 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the tombstone of Vietnamese anti-colonialist Phạm Thận Duật was buried face-down for nearly a century to conceal it from the French authorities?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2018/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Phạm Thận Duật.

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Amyclam can you figure out the copyright issue? -Seazzy (talk) 22:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As this has been stuck for a while and the only problem appears to be the image, I think this should be good to go, albeit the hook shouldn't be in the image slot. Note though that the nominator hasn't edited in some time and help does not appear to be incoming (despite my two requests on Discord), so I think this should just move forward pic-less. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 12:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I came by to promote this, but added several "citation needed" tags, one of which involves the hook fact. Yoninah (talk) 19:37, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

PhamThanDuat School

I've been in touch with the page author but I'm not sure they know how to resolve the image issue. There is another image that is free on the page if that helps. - Seazzy (talk) 14:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Seazzy: it would help more if you could resolve the citations issue. Otherwise this nomination will be rejected. Yoninah (talk) 18:28, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah:Could you clarify why the hook citation was removed in the first place? Seazzy (talk) 18:50, 15 October 2018‎ (UTC)[reply]

@Seazzy: I'm not sure what you're referring to. I only added two "citation needed" tags to information that needs to be sourced. Yoninah (talk) 19:00, 15 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: Took a closer look and saw the cite tags. Have added the citation and corrected the date (based on the source). Hook must be re-written with new date of 1975. Can this be done here, or is there another way it needs to be done? If there is anything missing, please let us know! Seazzy (talk) 15:20, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Seazzy: thank you for adding the cite and correcting the date. Every paragraph has at least one cite now. Sometimes in the course of DYK nominations, the nominator finds that information is incorrect and is able to update it. So I'm glad you did that. To change text in the hook, you can either strike out and replace the information in the original hook, or write an alt hook:
ALT1: ~~... that the tombstone of Phạm Thận Duật (pictured) was buried face down until 1975 to conceal his cultural, military and anti-colonial activities from the French?~~
However, I'd like to suggest this hook wording:
ALT2: ~~... that the tombstone of Phạm Thận Duật was buried face down for nearly a century to conceal his cultural, military, and anti-colonial activities from the French?~~
Please let me know what you think of ALT2, and then I'll promote it. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 18:32, 17 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: ALT2 is great! Let's go with that one. Seazzy (talk) 17:01, 19 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Seazzy: thanks. But we have one problem. Double-checking the source with Google Translate, the source says nothing about the tombstone being buried to conceal his cultural, military, and anti-colonial activities from the French. It just says it was done to conceal the tombstone from the French. Do you have another source for this info? Yoninah (talk) 16:59, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Amyclam: If you have a source, this can move ahead. Seazzy (talk) 19:29, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ALT3 "...that the tombstone of Vietnamese anti-colonialist Phạm Thận Duật was buried face down for nearly a century to conceal it from the French colonial ruler?" Drmies (talk) 01:33, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yoninah, Seazzy, Amyclam, what do you think? That "the French" was the colonial government should be of the "sky is blue" category; "Vietnamese" comes from his birthplace, and "anti-colonialist" is pulled from the article. Drmies (talk) 01:33, 2 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, @Drmies: that works very nicely. Restoring tick per Catrìona's review. I don't recommend using the images. Yoninah (talk) 23:01, 5 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

* Couldn't have put it better myself, @Drmies:. I've been working on clearing the image rights, but it seems to be a circular problem. It just needs a checkmark under Vietnamese copyright to qualify for international, but there is no Vietnamese laws around this (at least not posted to Wikipedia). Seazzy (talk) 17:22, 11 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]