Talk:Petar i Zli Vuci

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no agreement for this move Kotniski (talk) 11:33, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Petar i Zli Vuci → Petar i zli Vuci — Correct capitalization. See the cover of their only record: [1]. Vanjagenije (talk) 21:11, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The user Vanjagenije purposes first that for the article Petar i zli vuci is the correct capitalization, then Petar i zli Vuci is the correct capitalization and both times this same link, thus I have deliberately marked the second move as vandalism, see:

15:28, August 16, 2009 Vanjagenije (talk | contribs) m (4,940 bytes) (moved Petar i Zli Vuci to Petar i zli vuci: The correct capitalization, as it appeared on their records. See: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1037595)

11:39, August 4, 2010 Vanjagenije (talk | contribs) m (6,712 bytes) (moved Petar i Zli Vuci to Petar i zli Vuci: Correct spelling. See their only record: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1037595)

The article should stay with the current capitals as both times the article is moved by the same user to whom it is neither important that the band name is written in the correct manner, if there is such a thing in the current case, nor for the sake of referring to the style the band name is written on a cover, but only that the version with all the letters in capitals be removed, without the user being aware that in popular culture band names do not have to follow grammatical rules (see for example metal umlaut). Not only is this an obvious ambition of a single user to apply some pop culture non-existent rule, but is not the first one:

11:52, March 27, 2010 Vanjagenije (talk | contribs) (40 bytes) (moved Oružjem Protivu Otmičara to Oružjem protivu otmičara over redirect: Correct spelling. See: http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=896593)

If you open the link, you clearly see the capital letters on the band name Oružjem Protivu Otmičara, and the reference is the one from the album cover featuring all the letters in small caps, and by it the article would be called oružjem protivu otmičara, even Oružjem Protivu Otmičara, but certainly not Oružjem protivu otmičara.

I rest my case. Milosppf (talk) 22:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Do you have any reason not to move the page? Vanjagenije (talk) 09:22, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As a matter of fact I do, because most of the British/American rock bands have capital letters for band names, since this encyclopedia is in the language spoken in the countries I have mentioned, I believe that there should not be any difference in the article styles between Yugoslav bands and bands from the mentioned countries. Milosppf (talk) 10:35, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As a matter of fact, most former Yugoslavian bands don't have capital letters for band names, and since the name "Petar i zli Vuci" is in Serbian language, than the serbian capitalization is to be used. You should read this Wikipedia policy which states that if the expression is not a loan word, than the capitalization used in original language is to be used. Vanjagenije (talk) 16:40, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Again, no matter what the policy says, the idea of the band name, Petar i Zli Vuci, was the one to resemble a 1950s and 1960s band names like for example Bill Haley & His Comets or Freddie Bell and the Bellboys or Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, as written in EX YU ROCK enciklopedija by Petar Janjatović, the main article reference: "The idea for the name came from Sinadinović who wanted to give the name similar to the names given to the bands from the sixties" (p.132 in the 1997 edition). The band name is a division between the imaginary member Petar, and his backing band Zli Vuci. Again Zli Vuci should be written in capitals as a proper noun. Milosppf (talk) 19:32, 5 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Petar i Zli Vuci

You spent lots of time arguing the correct spelling of the name. In Serbian it is "Petar i Zli Vuci". The correct English translation is "Peter and the Wolf Pack". It plays on the spirit 50's and resembles "Rat Pack". Translations like "Peter and Evil Wolves" and "Peter and Rabid Wolves", "Peter and Bad Wolves" are wrong, literal and not what we intended with the name of the band. Signed, Bojan Banović, co-founder of the bandPiZV (talk) 18:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC) On top of everything, translation like "Peter and the Evil Wolfs" is grammatically incorrect - plural of Wolf is Wolves, not "Wolfs", so I kindly ask Milosppf not to change it any more.PiZV (talk) 18:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I notice that User:Milosppf inserted the word "evil" into the name of the band in spite of the objections of another editor. Since another editor has given a valid explanation for the removal of the word on the talk page of the article, their edit does not constitute WP:vandalism. It is inappropriate to continue to re-add the word. Thank you. --Diannaa ^(Talk) 17:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why there should Evil Wolf Pack is because the word Zli, meaning Evil, appears in the band name. The translation without the adjective is not the correct one, despite the influence of the 1960s band names. The influence literally following something, but it is rather an origin of an idea. Despite it being incorrect, I will back away from further changes, but still I expect a third party opinion.

Concerning the "other editor" maybe you should look at the articles about Serbian rock bands, where an abundance of inappropriate edits were by band members themselves, without editing anything else (see user PiZV contributions). According to the Wikipedia Autobiography policy, band members can contribute the article only by adding information to the talk page instead the article itself. As following the previously mentioned policy ("It is difficult to write neutrally and objectively about oneself You should generally let others do the writing.") I believe that independent editors, being more neutral and objective, should have more rights to interpret the material used in the article references.

Once again, let the translation be, but I want to express an utter disgust for such "editors", because in the past week I have been giving warnings to three more "editors" (see for example Kazna Za Uši history page) on the articles related to Serbian rock, the area in which I have created more than a hundred articles, including the one we are now discussing. --Milosppf (talk) 22:10, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I am glad you have decided to leave the band name alone. Thank you very much for your cooperation. --Diannaa ^(Talk) 04:44, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I absolutely agree with Milosppf. The correct translation IS Peter and the Evil Wolves, and the the influence of the 1960s band names is less important. Ostalocutanje (talk) 11:38, 10 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]