Talk:Perla Batalla

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Perla Batalla has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: December 21, 2022. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Perla Batalla appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 6 February 2023 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Perla Batalla was once a backup singer for Leonard Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Perla Batalla.

Wikipedia

GA Review

Passed. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 05:08, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Perla Batalla/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammi Brie (talk · contribs) 04:35, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Aside from the copy changes, I worry we talk about too many non-notable awards and that there is a need to bolster the discography which uses a lot of AllMusic. But I think those are doable fixes. 7-day hold to BennyOnTheLoose. Given the length of time, fresh eyes may find more work to do. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 06:21, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Copy changes

Lead

Discoteca Batalla (2002), was recorded The comma after the year parenthetical is not needed.

Amended. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Career

Her mother was a singer and her father was a mariachi musician. A comma is needed before ", and". User:Sammi Brie/Commas in sentences Future errors referencing this page are noted (CinS).
"Discoteca Batalla" Don't encase the name of a business in caps
Don't capitalize "High School" — not a specific school.
Batalla was a backing singer on Cohen's album The Future (1992),, and appears Remove comma (CinS) There is also an extra extra comma here.
The album included songs written by Batalla, and covers, including "Sixteen Tons" and songs by Cohen and Van Morrison. The comma structure is tough to get around. I'd change the first "and" to "as well as".
She released her second album, Mestiza (meaning of mixed blood) in 1998 on her own label, and sold it via her website. A comma is needed after the mixed blood parenthetical to complete the appositive of the album title, but the later comma should be removed (CinS).
Heaven and Earth : the Mestiza Voyage followed in 2000, and was Is the space BEFORE the colon intended? Also remove the comma (CinS)
After Holzman left Discovery, Batalla parted with the company, and founded her own music label Remove the second comma (CinS)
Link Kennedy Center and KCRW
Jennifer Warnes' add an "s" to "Warnes" (MOS:'S
"The Adventures of Women Surrealists in Mexico and the U.S." is an art exhibition, which should be italicized. Per MOS:IT, Use italics for the titles of works (such as books, films, television series, named exhibitions, computer games, music albums, and artworks).

Article amended per the comments above. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Personal life

She is also the recipient of Border Book Festivals', Premio Fronterizo Award for "healing work in the world" Is this a notable award? We don't even have an article on "Border Book Festivals". Some of these awards seem borderline notable if at all.

Having looked through news sources and finding no real coverage, I removed them. The Earth Charter one did get a little contemporary press coverage but even that doesn't seem very notable. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing and spot checks

Earwig flags two sources above 40 percent, with the SXSW 2013 source suggesting rewording of Los Angeles County Museum of Art to compose and perform an original composition but most of the rest is attributed quotes and titles of albums.

Reworded slightly, ("compose and perform an original composition" was hardly elegant anyway). Hopefully it's now OK per WP:LIMITED. Incidentally, you may have noted Batalla described as a "Grammy winner" in sources. I raised this at [1] and have omitted it from the article as I was unable to verify it on the Grammys site even though it's mentioned in sources. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I also notice that there are a lot of references to AllMusic in the discography. Can those be leavened in some way with additional non-AllMusic reliable sources?

Amended the sources. I got rid of the non-Batalla albums from the discography - as I could find very little in reliable sources about them. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aside from AllMusic, I also selected some sources for spot checks. In addition (independent of the review), I clipped as many newspaper articles as possible that were already in use.

Thanks for adding the clippings. I've kept some AllMusic refs as they are useful for release years etc. (as some reviews are from the year following the album release). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

8: 1993 Guardian review. Quote is reproduced faithfully.
9: M Music interview from 2010 that includes the Discovery and Claud Mann facts for which it is used.
15: Quote verified and source located in ProQuest.
31: Earth Charter award mentioned.

Now removed from text. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

33: WorldCat entry. Is there anything better?

Worldcat no longer used. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, Sammi Brie. Hopefully I've addressed everything, but let me know if anything else is required. Regards. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Other items

Images are appropriately licensed (one has permission). The image in the infobox needs alt text defined.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Aoidh (talk) 16:13, 23 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

~~... that Perla Batalla was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen before becoming a solo singer under his encouragement?~~ Source: Kubernik, Harvey (2014). Leonard Cohen : Everybody Knows. London: Omnibus Press. ISBN 9781783053179. page 219 , https://web.archive.org/web/20210506101938/https://mmusicmag.com/m/2010/09/perla-batalla/
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Rockstar New England

Improved to Good Article status by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 19:27, 22 December 2022 (UTC).[reply]

I love Leonard Cohen, so thank you for improving and nominating this article about one of his illustrious protégés. Article recently promoted to GA status, so new enough and long enough. Nicely written, neutrally phrased, cited using reliable sources, no copyvio. QPQ done. My question about the hook is that the article does not state that Batalla became a solo singer with Cohen's encouragement - it says he encouraged her to write her own songs. Could you perhaps rephrase slightly to say "solo singer-songwriter with his encouragement"? Or propose an ALT or two? Topshelver (talk) 21:38, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging Onegreatjoke (talk) to make sure they see this query. Topshelver (talk) 13:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Topshelver: How about

ALT0a: ~~... that Perla Batalla was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen before becoming a solo singer-songwriter with his encouragement?~~ Onegreatjoke (talk) 17:39, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I like this version. Approved for DYK. Topshelver (talk) 18:26, 4 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Topshelver and Onegreatjoke: I was going to promote this, but could not easily find the fact in hook ALT0a clearly stated on the Perla Batalla article page. Am I missing something? If not, could the fact be added with citation? (I see there is a somewhat similar claim in the lede, but there is no citation there, and really the claim made in the hook and in the article should match.) Cielquiparle (talk) 11:57, 13 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Re-pinging Topshelver and Onegreatjoke to address question above. Cielquiparle (talk) 13:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cielquiparle: Well there's "in 1988 and 1993, she toured as a backup singer with Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs." as the first sentence of the second paragraph though i guess it doesn't state the hook exactly. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:51, 16 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cielquiparle: Yes, Onegreatjoke indicates the sentence I was using to verify the hook. The article includes a list of her solo albums, so coupled with the fact that Batalla was encouraged to write her own songs by Cohen per the sentence in question, the facts claimed in the hook seemed sufficiently documented to me. Topshelver (talk) 13:47, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Topshelver: Oh. I read the comment from Onegreatjoke as conceding that the hook and the statement in the article didn't match. Per #3b of WP:DYKCRIT: Each fact in the hook must be supported in the article by at least one inline citation to a reliable source, appearing no later than the end of the sentence(s) offering that fact. Maybe Onegreatjoke could tweak the hook a bit? And/or propose a new one? Cielquiparle (talk) 14:17, 18 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Onegreatjoke, per request, would you be able to supply a modified or alternative hook that directly reflects the #3b criterion? Maybe something as simple as that Perla Batalla toured as a backup singer with Leonard Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs? Topshelver (talk) 21:45, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Topshelver: ~~... that Perla Batalla was a backup singer for Leonard Cohen, who would encourage her to write her own songs?"~~ Onegreatjoke (talk) 21:53, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, thanks! @Cielquiparle:, do you feel that this ALT meets the #3b criterion? Topshelver (talk) 21:58, 20 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but "would encourage" is clunky, so how about:

ALT0c: ... that Perla Batalla was once a backup singer for Leonard Cohen, who encouraged her to write her own songs?

The wording is of "encouraged her to write her own songs" is exactly what the source says, but there is no other good way to say it, I don't think. Inserting "once" hints that she wasn't a backup singer for the rest of her career. @Topshelver: What do you think? Cielquiparle (talk) 06:34, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cielquiparle:, adding "once" strengthens and clarifies the hook. ALT0c looks good to me! Topshelver (talk) 01:38, 22 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]