Talk:Pelham bit

Interdental space

The current paragraph (version) about pelham bit incompatible with long interdental space is unclear. A long interdental space implies the back teeth are far behind the corners of the mouth; a long interdental space and a long mouth may be the situation that is intended. --Una Smith (talk) 00:29, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the content of this article predates me, from the style, that looks like some of Eventer's old edits. I actually agree with you that the sentence is not clear. However, there were so many other edits done to the article, it is going to take me a while to sort things out. If you think we should just toss it, that is fine with me. I actually wonder if that particular statement is OR anyway. Montanabw^(talk) 06:00, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up: Did some tweaking of your rewrite. Overall, I liked the restructuring. Per your comments above, I figured you wouldn't kick if I tossed that bit about the interdental space (it makes no sense to me at all). I also did toss the one photo of the flash noseband with a pelham, which could be considered abusive in some circles (flash nosebands with curb bits are considered pretty harsh). I also tossed the description of "gag action" on the pelham, both because it could also be considered abusive and because what you describe isn't precisely gag leverage. This is just a basic article, I think it's not a good idea to get into any offbeat uses. If it's a polo thing, it could be described over in the polo article. Montanabw^(talk) 07:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I reinstated the photo and text about a pelham used as a gag. Abusive or not (and POV either way), that is how it is being used in the photo. I have used many a gag bit (not by my choice) and many a pelham too. The key is the noseband; for any gag to work properly the horse's mouth has to be kept shut so the mouthpiece runs up against the back teeth. Pressure is applied to the teeth and the poll joint, and the horse objects more to the latter pressure. Omit the noseband and the horse opens its mouth, slips the bit past its teeth, and literally gags, and then is likely to rear. --Una Smith (talk) 22:37, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And I have removed it again. Per WP:UNDUE, once again this is apparently one of those polo things no one else does. If you want to put it into the gag bit article, I have no problem with that. But not here. To that end, note I never promote some of the gag curb rigs or chain curbs that a lot of rodeo people use, they too operate by causing intense pain to the horse. If you want to promote some of the less savory aspects of a sport, do it on the sport's page, but let's not put it in a general interest article. I feel that more severe practices really don't belong - like this bit, or this, or this. They might be curb bits and mechanical hackamores, but they also are extremely severe. (Oh, and a lot of folks add a tiedown to these so the horse doesn't rear...) =:-O

Fault in description

Hi, you have this Foto chosen to describe one of those bits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gauner-neu.JPG

When I was reading the description, I was getting a little bit stunned, because the bit the horse is wearing is a Tellington-Bit. It has nothing to do with a pelham. I've made the Photo when my Horse was nine years old. So I think this Article needs a little correction at the description of the fotography. --91.17.130.70 (talk) 18:19, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Manufacturer or promoter (Tellington-Jones, I presume??) is irrelevant; the bit is clearly being used as a "cowboy pelham;" which is the term used for a curb with a slot for a snaffle rein, when used with four reins, and a western saddle. Apparently you call this something different in Europe, which appears to be where you live, but be assured by someone from the American west, that's what it is: you just didn't know that was what it is REALLY called in its land of origin! :-D