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NAME

Is it ok to change the name in simply "PEJA", it is easier to find and commonly used in english.

Question

Please can we compromise? Is there any reason that the page cannot have two names? Peć / Peja? It is very confusing otherwise. A tourist just needs to know that they may see the city called by EITHER name. ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nancyinkosovo (talk • contribs) 09:14, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

@Nancyinkosovo: No, that would be against our WP:Naming conventions. See WP:PLACE#Multiple_local_names. Vanjagenije (talk) 15:12, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
@Nancyinkosovo:@Vanjagenije: BUT WP:Naming convention and WP:PLACE#Multiple_local_names do not restrict from multiple local names. See Cities in Switzerland. The point is that the article should be informative. Using only one description is wrong because it does not reflect what people would find if they visit that place. The country is bilingual and since there is not a common description in English, we should use both names. I don't care what comes first but for the sake of accuracy, it should have both names. Amanaparts (talk) 16:02, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

There is a COMMONNAME for this place in English, and that one is Peć. That is already proven by multiple move requests. So, dont worry about tourists, they can go to Wikitravel if they need some info. But Wikipedia have more important guidelines to follow then nonexistent tourists in Peć. --Ąnαșταη (ταlκ) 21:39, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

there is no common name in english just because you say so. The tourist are just an example it is not about what YOU, I or someone else thinks, its about a bilingual city in a bilingual country. Not referring to both names is discrimination of the overwhelming majority. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanaparts (talk • contribs) 21:55, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
So by your argument, the title Vienna is an overwhelming discrimination of the... entire Austrian nation??? Be serious... Please read Wikipedia:COMMONNAME. FkpCascais (talk) 22:09, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Not the same. See Swiss bilingual cities Biel/Bienne. If there is a will there is a way. Using both names goes not against Wikipedia:COMMONNAME and would improve quality of the article and it wouldnt hurt anyone. Question is why dont you want to show both names???? WP:NPV — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amanaparts (talk • contribs) 22:31, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
There is a method on how to apply titles for places descied at severl of the principles alredy mentioned earlier. Biel/Bienne is probably actually te commonname i English of the place, as many other Swiss towns are. Anyway, a direct question, since you picked one of the few cities in Kosovo which remained named in Serbian version, would you then have the same consistent position regarding the other towns iin Kosovo which have Albanian name? For instance, turning Gjakova into Gjakova/Đakovica? Yes or no? If you honestly say yes and actually support the renamng to billingual format, I will believe your good-faith and support you all the way on this. FkpCascais (talk) 03:44, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

The english name of this city is not Pec but Peja, so why does the serbian version exist in higher priority to the albanian? The article was eeven redirected from Pejë as you can see when you search for Peja/Pec: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=District_of_Peja&redirect=no District of Peć -> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -> (Redirected from District of Peja) PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:18, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

So don't you answer quickly but refusing my article immediately is possible. My aunt does'nt live in Pec but in Peja and this is not serbian. PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:26, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Thousands of pejan people use the word peja to describe their home eeven in english it's the same so what kind of serbian influence rules wikipedia? PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:28, 23 May 2018 (UTC) Just start comparing the minority rights of serbs in kosovo. We should not say minority rights because privileged status fits better. At the same time Albanian in Serbia does not have the rights although they are larger in number. Also seen relatively. User Vanjagenije deletes eeven pictures with albanian name of the city. (just saying) PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Back to my mainquestion to the wikipedia dudes ruling this article: what do you need to get clear that this city is of albanian usage? Would you like to have your own cityname in chineese letters, eeven when no chineese people are living in there? This is senseless! PowerlockeDurim (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 11 October 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: (non-admin closure) NOT MOVED. There is a clear consensus against this proposal. power~enwiki (π, ν) 19:50, 19 October 2018 (UTC)


Peć → Peja – The official name of the city is Peja. You can see this in their Municipality Website Hakuli (talk) 10:28, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Sam Sailor 11:42, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with * '''Support''' or * '''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
Comment

Unitet Naticion Law in Kosovo

The user of the city names in English Language (newer version from the UN liable pilari in Kosovo for such think )

  1. http://www.osce.org/kosovo/13982.html

The original page of the Law (1. in albanian L., 2.Serbian L.)

  1. http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/03albanian/A2000regs/RA2000_43.htm
  2. http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/04serbian/SC2000regs/RSC2000_43.pdf

The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for albanian language. 

RREGULLORe NR. 2000/43
UNMIK/REG/2000/43
27 korrik 2000
Mbi numrin, emrat dhe kufinjtë e komunave
-------------------------------------------
Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm,
Në pajtim me autorizimin e tij të dhënë me rezolutën 1244 (1999) të datës 10 qershor 1999 të 
Këshillit të Sigurimit të Kombeve të Bashkuara,
Duke marrë parasysh Rregulloren nr. 1999/1 të datës 25 korrik 1999, të ndryshuar, të
Misionit të Administratës së Përkohshme të Kombeve të Bashkuara në Kosovë (UNMIK)
mbi autorizimin e Administratës së 
Përkohshme në Kosovë dhe Rregulloren Nr. 1999/24 të datës 12 dhjetor 1999 të UNMIK-ut 
mbi ligjin në fuqi në Kosovë,
Me qëllim të qartësimit të numrit, emrave, shtrirja dhe kufinjve të komunave para mbajtjes 
së zgjedhjeve komunale në Kosovë,
Shpall sa vijon:
Neni 1
Numri dhe emrat e komunave
Kosova ka tridhjetë komuna ashtu siç figurojnë në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje. 
Komunikimi zyrtar nuk përmban asnjë emër për ndonjë komunë i cili nuk figuron në Tabelën ‘A’ 
të kësaj rregulloreje, përveç që në ato komuna ku komunitetet etnike a gjuhësore joshqiptare 
dhe joserbe përbëjnë një pjesë substanciale, emrat e komunave jepen edhe në gjuhët e 
atyre komuniteteve.
Neni 2
Shtrirja dhe kufinjtë e komunave
Shtrirja e çdo komune dhe kufinjtë e tyre skicohen nga zonat e tyre përbërëse kadastrale. 
Zonat kadastrale të cilat përbëjnë çdo komunë figurojnë në Tabelën ‘B’ të kësaj rregulloreje.
Neni 3
Zbatimi
Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm mund të lëshojë direktiva administrative 
në lidhje me zbatimin e kësaj rregulloreje.
Neni 4
Ligji i zbatueshëm
Kjo rregullore mbulon çdo dispozitë në ligjin e zbatueshëm e cila nuk është në përputhje me të. 
Neni 5
Hyrja në fuqi
Kjo rregullore hyn në fuqi më 27 korrik 2000.
Bernard Kouchner
Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm

The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for serbian language. 

UREDBA BR. 2000/43
UNMIK/URED/2000/43
27. jul 2000. godine
O BROJU, IMENIMA I GRANICAMA OP[TINA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara,
Shodno ovla{}ewu koje mu je dato Rezolucijom Saveta bezbednosti Ujediwenih
nacija 1244 (1999) od 10. juna 1999. godine,
Na osnovu Uredbe br. 1999/1 od 25. jula 1999. godine Privremene
administrativne misije Ujediwenih nacija na Kosovu (UNMIK), sa izmenama i
dopunama, o ovla{}ewima Privremene uprave na Kosovu i na osnovu Uredbe
UNMIK-a br. 2000/24 od 12. decembra 2000. godine o zakonu koji je u primeni na
Kosovu, <u>(hier is oficele user)</u>
U ciqu razja{wavawa broja, imena, oblasti i granica op{tina pre odr`avawa
op{tinskih izbora na Kosovu,
Ovim objavquje slede}e:
Clan 1
BROJ I IMENA OPSTINA
1.1 Kosovo ima trideset opstina kao sto je dato u Tabeli '''A''' u dodatku ovoj
Uredbi.
1.2 Zvani~na komunikacija ne mo`e da sadrzi bilo koje ime za opstinu koje
nije naziv odredjen u Tabeli A ove Uredbe, osim u onim opstinama gde etni~ke i
jezi~ke zajednice, koje nisu srpske i albanske ~ine znatan deo stanovni{tva, gde
se imena op{tina daju i na jezicima tih zajednica.
Clan 2
PODRU^JA I GRANICE OP[TINA
Podru~je svake op{tine i wene granice su ocrtane wenim sastavnim
katastarskim zonama. Katastarske zone koje ~ine svaku op{tinu su odre|ene u
Tabeli B prilo`enoj u dodatku ovoj Uredbi.
Clan 3
PRIMENA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara mo`e da donese administrativno
uputstvo u vezi sa primenom ove Uredbe.
Clan 4
ZAKON KOJI JE U PRIMENI
Ova Uredba zamewuje svaku odredbu zakona koji je u primeni a koja nije saglasna
sa wom.
Clan 5
STUPAWE NA SNAGU
Ova Uredba stupa na snagu 27. jula 2000. godine.
Bernar Ku{ner
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara

Table A - The names of Kosovo Cities 

TABELA ‘A’ (alb) RASPORED A (ser.)
Emrat e komunave (alb.)IMENA OPSTINA (serb)
Albanski Srpski
01 Deçan \Decani
02 Gjakovë \Djakovica
03 Gllogovc \Glogovac
04 Gjilan \Gnilane
05 Dragash \Dragas
06 Istog \Istok
07 Kaçanik \Kacanik
08 Klinë\ Klina
09 Fushë Kosovë\ Kosovo Polje
10 Kamenicë \Kamenica
11 Mitrovicë \Kosovska Mitrovica
12 Leposaviq \Leposavic
13 Lipjan \Lipqan
14 Novobërdë \Novo Brdo
15 Obiliq \Obilic
16 Rahovec\ Orahovac
17 Pejë\ Pec
18 Podujevë\ Podujevo
19 Prishtinë \Pristina
20 Prizren \Prizren
21 Skenderaj\ Srbica
22 Shtime\ Stimqe
23 Shtërpcë\ Strpce
24 Suharekë\ Suva Reka
25 Ferizaj \Urosevac
26 Viti \Vitina
27 Vushtrri\ Vucitrn
28 Zubin Potok \Zubin Potok
29 Zveçan\ Zvecan
30 Malishevë\ Malisevo

--Hakuli (talk) 21:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Either you are not understanding how Wikipedia works, or you are intentionally ignoring it. I will assume good faith and believe it is the first one. Please read Wikipedia:COMMONNAME. FkpCascais (talk) 21:45, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment Focusing on reliable sources (such as books and Google Scholar), Peja is more common than Peć.

Peja - About 4,770 results Peć - About 4,470 results -- I also used the word Kosovo because the terms "Peja" and "Peć" also include other things!

Referring to today's maps the most popular name is "Peja". We can also see this in Google Maps

We will continue discussing changing Kosovo names because we have many names in wikipedia in Serbian languge. This article has the same sources as the article in Gjilan and Ferizaj where we changed the names from Serbian to English. --Hakuli (talk) 18:42, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Given that those two links show the exact same books for the entirety of the first page, I don't see how they prove anything. The difference between 4770 and 4470 is negligible. Your last paragraph reads as very WP:NOTHERE to me. If Serbian names are most often used in English sources, then we should use them here. The last sentence of your post seems to say that you reject the notion that the Serbian form can ever be the same as the English form.--Khajidha (talk) 19:14, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
On the contrary, Serbian names in English have not been used since 1999 after the UNMIK entry in Kosovo, and even some names are taken as an insult to Albanians (I say this because I am from Kosovo).--Hakuli (talk) 20:58, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
English usage extends far beyond the borders of Kosovo and is not subject to UNMIK. Congratulations, you have just confirmed my opinion that you are not here to build an encyclopedia and are editing for nationalist reasons. This request should be denied and your account blocked.--Khajidha (talk) 21:41, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Do not be prejudiced, I have no nationalist ideas. On the contrary, I am saying the opinion of the majority of the population in Kosovo. The change of name of this article should go to the same steps as the articles of Ferizaj, Gjilan, Gjakova etc... --Hakuli (talk) 21:52, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
The names of articles on the English wikipedia are based on English usage. As Kosovo is not an English speaking country, the usage of its citizens is irrelevant. --Khajidha (talk) 21:55, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
Please read all my request, the name I have proposed is in English language while the current name is in Serbian language. For the same reason the names of some cities of Kosovo have been changed like Gnjilane > Gjilan, Uroševac > Ferizaj and Đakovica > Gjakova!--Hakuli (talk) 14:11, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
The English language form of the name of this city is whatever is most widely used in English sources. Whether that is Pec (with or without the diacritic) or Peje (with or without the diacritic) or Peja. Or even Susan. Whether said form originates in Albanian, Serbian, or Klingon is irrelevant. And, no, the decrees of UNMIK or the government of Kosovo DO NOT set English usage. --Khajidha (talk) 18:03, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Suggest that this discussion be "snow" closed, as 1) it has been running for six days, 2) no one other than the proposer has supported the move, 3) the rationale given is not a valid reason based on policy, and 4) proposer does not seem to understand said policy. --Khajidha (talk) 18:10, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

I support a WP:SNOW close (not boldfaced, because it is implicit in my !vote, above). This is neither the first nor the second time that I have seen editors trying to push a WP:AGENDA in articles relating to the Balkans, from at least three sides. Narky Blert (talk) 21:36, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Moved from Question section

The english name of this city is not Pec but Peja, so why does the serbian version exist in higher priority to the albanian? The article was eeven redirected from Pejë as you can see when you search for Peja/Pec: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=District_of_Peja&redirect=no District of Peć -> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -> (Redirected from District of Peja) PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:18, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

So don't you answer quickly but refusing my article immediately is possible. My aunt does'nt live in Pec but in Peja and this is not serbian. PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:26, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Thousands of pejan people use the word peja to describe their home eeven in english it's the same so what kind of serbian influence rules wikipedia? PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:28, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
Just start comparing the minority rights of serbs in kosovo. We should not say minority rights because privileged status fits better. At the same time Albanian in Serbia does not have the rights although they are larger in number. Also seen relatively.
User Vanjagenije deletes eeven pictures with albanian name of the city. (just saying) PowerlockeDurim (talk) 22:51, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
@PowerlockeDurim: articles are named after the most used name of the subject in English language sources. You can make a WP:Move Request if you think there are good reasons. Read the instructions on the link I placed. Ktrimi991 (talk) 22:44, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
@Ktrimi991: are you an albanian? so could i ask you pleas some questions in shqip if it is possible? maybe on an other plattform via email or facebook? PowerlockeDurim (talk) 23:53, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
  • @PowerlockeDurim: The title of the article is (currently) "Peć". Regardless of your opinion about the title, the subject (city) should be refereed to as "Peć" through the article as long as the title is "Peć". It is not acceptable to have one title and then different name in the text. So, please stop change the name of the city in the text. If you think the title is wrong, try to reach WP:consensus thru a wp:move request. You should be aware that article titles should follow the WP:COMMONNAME policy, so the ethnic majority/minority status is irrelevant. Also, you should be aware that the common name was discussed here several times, and never was consensus reached for moving (renaming) article. Vanjagenije (talk) 00:14, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
@PowerlockeDurim: Editors are required to use only English on the English Wikipedia. If you want to talk about this content dispute, it is preferable to continue the discussion here. If you need instructions about the process of editing Wikipedia, you can ask me on my talk page on the English [1] and Shqip [2] Wikipedia. I placed a welcome message on your talk page, there you can familiarize yourself with editing process. Ktrimi991 (talk) 18:53, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I really need to adress one issue which I see too often being brought to this discussions. People really need to stop bringing allways the same useless argument about how the city is refered by locals. Seems people are really unable to understand one basic fact, which is that this is an English-language online eencyclopedia. By that, it means it is directed towards English-language speakers. WP:COMMONNAME is a good policy because adresses this issue in practice. We need to find the name English-speakers refer to the city most. Not locals. Locals are irrelevant for this issue. "Oh we people of Peje we call it Peje"... well yes, OK, but no one cares here how people in Peje refer to the city, but what matters is how English-language literature refers to it, so it makes English-language speakers more easy to find and know what is covered in this article. People fail to understand that this is ENGLISH encyclopedia and make a mistake of arguing as if this was some sort of multilinguistic United Nations one. To facilitate them to see their own absurdity, it would be like someone coming to an Albanian encyclopedia and complaining why the entry about Germany is named Gjermania when all locals call it Deutschland!!! When you write an encyclopedia in Albanian you are obviously doing it in focus for Albanian-language speakers and all that matters is how Albanian-language speakers call things. So it is time for all to undestand this (I mean all, Albanians, Serbs, Macedonians, Chinese, Indonesians, whatever) that the only valid arguments are the ones that deal about English-language speakers perception. How English-laguage speakers refer to it, how English-laguage literature and sources refer to it, and what name they associate the most for the subject dealt in the article. It is often a name in English, but if not, it may be an addopted word from some other language which came to be in use in English as well for it. Whatever locals, speacially if not English-language speakers think about it, is totally irrelevant, and even further irrelevant are the local sensibilities and POV´s. I already saw people here writing that names of places in English which were adopted from Serbian language are "offensive" (???) for locals, a total absurdity, because this articles are NOT written for locals, but for native English-language speakers, which may, or not, share those sensitivities, which in case of not, well, makes those senstivities irrelevant.

So, from now on, I really think that whenever appears again some user bringing those same arguments which show total lack of understanding that this is an online encyclopedia written for native English-language speakers, they should be disregarded on spot. "Oh we in X-onia call it different", "Oh we in X-onia find it offensive", and such, should be just ignored. The only valid arguments are the ones that refer to English-language speakers, literature and sources. FkpCascais (talk) 19:56, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I do believe your argument is pretty moot though. As far as I can tell, the english name for the city is Peja. Pejë in Albanian and Pec in Serbian. So the article should reasonably be named Peja with reference to it being called Pejë in Albanian and Pec in Serbian. Sort of like [1] the Gothenburg article where it's called Gothenburg in english with a reference to Göteborg being it's Swedish name. Pihlbaoge (talk) 20:55, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
The English name of the city is determined by Wikipedia:COMMONNAME. Every futher discussion ends there. FkpCascais (talk) 22:57, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
@Pihlbaoge I compleetly agree with you. The english name for the city is Peja. Pejë in Albanian and Pec in Serbian. Why should the American/English people take those slavic words ars the english version? :( --PowerlockeDurim (talk) 17:24, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Why shouldn't they? The English name doesn't need to have any relationship to the name used in the city itself. If English usage was to call this place "Susan", it would be at that title. Whether you like the fact that the English form is closer to the Serbian form than the Albanian form is completely irrelevant. --Khajidha (talk) 15:12, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothenburg

Peja or Peć

Hello, I want to ask why the name of this article is Peć and not Peja? Many Books are using Peja (look here: (1), (2)) In Peja City are living 48.962 people. Thereof are 45.915 Albanians (94%!). Only 21 Serbs are in Peja. In the municipality are 96.450 people. 87.975 Albanians and 332 Serbs. That shows that the people in Peja are using Peja and not Peć. And many books too. The German Wikipedia had the same discussion and they moved the page from Peć to Peja in 2017 because of this reasons. Please join in the discussion. ElmedinRKS (talk) 11:36, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

@ElmedinRKS: Please, read carefully discussions above, including the archives. Wikipedia has its principles on page titles, most important of which is WP:COMMONNAME. During numerous discussions, it was concluded that Peć is still the COMMONNAME. Vanjagenije (talk) 01:00, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
@Vanjagenije: When this occurs, we give extra weight to reliable sources written after the name change is announced. If the reliable sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match.: (1), (2), (3), (4). Reliable English-language sources use Peja. And now? ElmedinRKS (talk) 11:08, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Do not forget: it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources) as such names will usually best fit the five criteria listed above. ElmedinRKS (talk) 11:13, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Just search the archives above and you'll find many examples of "Peć" being used in (post-2008) English sources. In order to move the page, you need to prove that the desired title is the most common, not just that it's common. Vanjagenije (talk) 13:39, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
@Vanjagenije: I already read the archives above. Maybe there are sources for Peć and Peja; what could be a good solution here? And in the archives you will find the most common of Peja. And: please read my marked annotations above about WP:COMMONNAME. ElmedinRKS (talk) 14:06, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
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