Talk:Patriot Front

Dead links/twitter as source

Regarding this revert, do not remove a source merely because it is a dead link, per WP:LINKROT. Likewise, do not use self-published content, such as twitter or other social media as a reliable source, per WP:SPS. Summarize according to reliable sources, not first-hand knowledge or social gossip. Grayfell (talk) 02:55, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

You guys forgot to add that they're cannibals eating unborn fetuses... Gosh the level of propaganda on Wikipedia is beyond levels previously thought impossible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.78.233.59 (talk) 08:08, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

When you can find anything on this extant page -- or anywhere on Wikipedia -- that is in error, do please submit suggested corrections so that the mistakes or bias may be corrected. Thank you so much in advance for your prompt assistance, David. SoftwareThing (talk) 21:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

ZOG claims?

So you're really just going to say that Patriot Front supports the ZOG 'conspiracy theory' on the basis of what? An ADL article without sources? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.43.151.33 (talk) 01:50, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

Do you have a better source, reference, or citation to offer? SoftwareThing (talk) 21:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

I believe that would be the point. If you don't have a good source, reference, or citation to offer, then maybe don't include unsubstantiated information in the article. 65.40.206.2 (talk) 14:33, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

ADL is itself a reliable source on this per WP:RSP. Llll5032 (talk) 01:37, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Vandalism in the Real World

Vandalism in the forest

The group's Nazi members also do vandalism in the real world. This Nazi vandalism was performed in the San Gabriel Mountains along a hiking trail. The vandalism was re-sealed with wood putty to seal the tree against fungus and beetle to save the tree. It might be informative to show this in the extant article to fully appreciate the scope of what these National Vanguard / Patriot Front . et al. do against the United States. SoftwareThing (talk) 21:19, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Can you help me understand how the image shown is “Nazi vandalism” ? Bravosierra2010 (talk) 18:01, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected and false information (and minor edits)

Alright, so this page is semi-protected until July 11th, but I have noticed quite a few things that should be changed, and would also suggest additional information to be added. One minor thing to start off with: "Penske Corporation trucks" should be changed to "Penske Trucks" with the link on the word "Penske" not Penske Corporation. Second, there is only one source/reference, which said reference is unreliable at best. For example, I do not believe they shouted "the election was stolen" nor did they demand a recount of the 2020 election, that just isn't what Patriot Front does, they have never done it before, and they do not even support Donald Trump. Thus, all references to Donald Trump and the 2020 presidential election should be removed. As well, they did not use Smoke bombs and flares to cover their retreat, nor did they even leave town or were run out. As far as I have heard they were indeed chased, there were altercations with Patriot Front on the defensive, but the entire group was not chased out, they did continue their march. Only a few groups or stragglers were ever chased and harassed, the entire force was not removed from the town by locals. Suffice it to say, the march was "successful" for Patriot Front, they continued their march and reached their objective and then left, there were no significant actions done by either the front or the locals and "Antifa" groups. It was a simple, long, but simple flash demonstration with a few protestors, not some resounding anti-fascist victory, Patriot Front did not run away, it is a biased an inaccurate claim, the article should be edited to reflect that or bias removed all together.

Patriot Front will no doubt publish a promotional video regarding the event in a month, so said video will prove that they did indeed give their speech (they always give a speech at the end of their marches). The longer the distance of time passes after the march, the more of the truth and the actual facts will surface, but either way, these facts can not surface until the page is corrected, thanks.

Edit: Think about it, why would anyone go through the trouble of ordering 3 Penske Trucks, masking and organizing a group of 200 people, training them to march, and then using said para-military unit to contest the 2020 election of all things, something that IS ALREADY BEING DONE, by numerous other groups and individuals. Of all things, it just is not worth it, they could easily fall into the ranks of a dozen other protests. Or a Trump Rally, ignoring the fact as I have mentioned before, Patriot Front does not support Donald Trump. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Modern MarcAntony (talk • contribs) 01:40, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

1. Promotion of White Nationalism and Fascism in the United States

2. Uniting like-minded right wing individuals under one banner

3. Expansion of Patriot Front

This is THE most accurate definition for Patriot Front's goal/purpose ever seen on this page, in my humble opinion. Anyone who thinks they have a better definition (or thinks mine is too long, bulky, or your an editor who doesn't think it fits, can talk to me on this page. I believe this is really accurate, maybe too much, but feel free to share criticism or tell me if I should change it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Modern MarcAntony (talk • contribs) 22:50, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Keep in mind that any analysis in this article must be made by a reliable secondary source, not Wikipedia editors, per WP:OR Llll5032 (talk) 23:36, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Vandalized mural in Portland

• We Stand with You

---Another Believer _(Talk) 01:52, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

White Supremacists?

We need to provide links or evidence that these folks are white supremacists. Bravosierra2010 (talk) 14:13, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

More than the dozens of reliable sources currently in the article? That does not seem necessary. Kuru (talk) 15:31, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

The manifesto (as a primary source) makes no racist assertions. The secondary sources do not cite any evidence of white supremacy from Patriot Front. Bravosierra2010 (talk) 17:47, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Many of the sources given explicitly provide this evidence, including break downs of the current and historical iterations of their "manifesto". I'm sorry, but I'm not going to be able to devote time to low-effort bait questions. Kuru (talk) 18:11, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

I’m not sure what low-effort bait questions are. This article would be more object and impartial if a link to the Patriot Front manifesto is included. Bravosierra2010 (talk)

Per WP:PSTS, "All analyses and interpretive or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary or tertiary source, and must not be an original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors." Llll5032 (talk) 01:06, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

I prefer to label them as "White Nationalist" as opposed to "White Supremacist" although for me, both are very broad. But yes, according to their Manifesto they are not KKK-level white supremacists or anything of that degree. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Modern MarcAntony (talk • contribs) 00:20, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Should we include rallies by Patriot Front among their activities?

Recently, PF held a rally at the Lincoln Memorial, which was condemned by locals. Can it be included among the other activities of the group, such as vandalism and fliers?

--PulauKakatua19 (talk) 11:39, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Public Figures Threshold

As this is considered to be the largest fascist and white supremacist group in the country by a pro-publica investigation, have any leadership figures other than the founder pierced the "public figure" threshold? A member's interest in concealing their face shouldn't impact a public interest in revealing biographical background on public figures.TuffStuffMcG (talk) 13:33, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Numerous members have been "doxxed", but none are important enough to have mentioned in the article. Wikipedia is not a platform for publishing people's personal information either. Modern MarcAntony (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:43, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Activities section

I removed most of the Activities section. Reasons: (1) WP:NOTNEWS, (2) wikipedia is not propaganda for this group's activities, (3) none of the activities are even notable and are of no value to an encyclopedia. Mvbaron (talk) 14:11, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I notice you also removed the information about the Philadelphia march from 2021 (Patriot Front conducted a separate engagement in Philadelphia in 2020) which I believe is frankly a mistake, given one, it is a very popular event, covered by numerous sources and a pop-culture item in some anti-fascist circles to the point of generating hundreds of thousands of views on numerous platforms, indicating people care about the march, it was clearly a very large, noteworthy phenomenon, embedded in internet popular culture. It was an important event. And, we have other Patriot Front marches listed, marches which demonstrate the organizations viewpoints and ideals, something we should be paying attention too. I do understand the value of removing "Patriot Front vandalizes Breonna Taylor memorial #344 in City *blank* for the third time this month, as listing every minute vandalism is blatant propaganda, but the march in "Philly" was not. Modern MarcAntony (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:36, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

This smacks of false flag

Sorry guys, but this smacks of a 1960's / 1970's "false flag" thing. You know, where the FBI or whomever does some sort of event to see who shows up, and who they can arrest? And it's not like we don't have recent history. What are the odds that a fully-fledged Wiki page pops up the same time that the well-promoted event (by a non-existent person in a Twitter account since shut down) is the product of disinterested but knowledgeable people? Wherever this will lead, I'll be sure to follow up this page, posting whatever comes to light. Twohlford (talk) 17:46, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes. And antifa colluded with the FBI for J6. soibangla (talk) 17:54, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

WP:NOTFORUM Llll5032 (talk) 18:36, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

No. No, it really doesn't in any way "smack" of being a false flag claim. That's the sort of thing crazy people say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.162.105 (talk) 13:23, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

This isn't the place for your Facebook feed. 122.106.35.224 (talk) 01:05, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

While that is understandable, right wing talking heads seem to be very insistent on not knowing this organization even exists up until now. For J6, the narrative changed very quickly from "Antifa did it" to " people are being held unlawfully for what is at worst tresspassing". It's nonsense, obviously, but here they appear to be genuinely clueless about Patiot Front. Their main argument for their "false flag" conspiracy theory seems to be that the press were first informed of the DC rally by a Twitter sockpuppet operated by members of Patriot Front itself. Reporters and activists who first retweeted this sock-account are now aware of it, but it's doubtful that they will find it newsworthy, seeing as neither it, nor the alt right's apparent ignorance of their own subdivisions has any real significance. Still, the conspiracy theory itself might end up getting sufficient coverage by reliable sources to warrant a mention. It's difficult to tell right now. 46.97.170.115 (talk) 14:20, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Stop being partisan with your speech and find sources please. --PerpetuityGrat (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Patriot Front, per their telegram channel (Main and Video channel) and this article: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/12/11/meet-patriot-front-neo-nazi-network-aims-blur-lines-militiamen-alt-right have been active since 2017. Modern MarcAntony (talk) 23:46, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Need photo(s)

Need photo(s)! 173.88.246.138 (talk) 03:32, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

"Feds"

I've seen discussion in mainstream coverage of the group's latest activities, which mention the claims from the right linking them to potential false flags ala the infamous Lincoln Project incident. This claim is covered (of course not ascertained) by The Washington Post, Snopes, The Daily Beast, Mediaite, RealClearPolitics and others. I think it has enough WP:RS coverage for this to be mentioned (again, not ascertained). Loganmac (talk) 03:58, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I'd say this has a snowball's chance in hell of making it into the article. Not because of any valid reasons, but because "we don't want it there, Wikipedia:Ignore all rules". MarshallKe (talk) 17:10, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

Patriot front site hacked, revealing illegal activities

Source:https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2022/01/data-leak-from-neo-nazi-site-shows-members-conspiring-in-hate-crimes/ ----2600:6C51:447F:D8D9:5078:35C1:C82B:3B1C (talk) 08:14, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

Are my eyes deceiving me?

"As with Vanguard America, Patriot Front supports a version of white-centered ideology compatible with the views of fascists across America, including themes such as closed borders, personal fitness, and authoritarian government." Personal fitness, what exactly does that mean? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Obaco2022 (talk • contribs) 13:14, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Just what it says. Basically Physical fitness. Doug Weller talk 14:10, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

[1] "The chat logs reveal a group of men struggling to expand membership and being harangued by their leadership to maintain physical fitness" Doug Weller talk 10:27, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@Obaco2022:. Doug Weller talk 10:28, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Lacking Thomas Rousseau Context

I notice the missing background of the leader, Thomas Rousseau. Nobody has included the fact that he was a member for a school newspaper yet, or any of the articles he worked on. https://coppellstudentmedia.com/2015-2016-sidekick-staff/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Obaco2022 (talk • contribs) 13:30, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

No mention of U-Haul Exit

Where is the mention of swarms of members leaving in U-Haul trucks, with Police guiding them out? There is clear video evidence of this, but somehow this information was never mentioned in the article. I don't want to accuse someone of trying to selectively edit, so I'll just assume you forgot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQ5y0-DAC8c — Preceding unsigned comment added by Obaco2022 (talk • contribs) 13:47, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

The issue with that is that we'd need several reliable sources discussing it for it to be encyclopedic. Find some and bring them here. Doug Weller talk 14:12, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Here are a few articles covering this topic. The Daily Beast Yahoo! News (Business Insider) Vice News MSNBC Obaco2022 (talk) 21:00, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

@Obaco2022: Great. Go for it, edit the article. Doug Weller talk 10:29, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

No evidence for claim that Patriot Front has set off smoke bombs during demonstrations and protests

In the Activities section, there is the following line: "The group uses a combination of patriotic and historic imagery, such as a fasces surrounded by thirteen stars, and attention-grabbing techniques such as setting off smoke bombs during demonstrations and protests.[12][13]" Neither of the sources listed even has the word "smoke" in it. This claim should be backed-up with a source or removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:182:C900:5140:C182:FD18:87DD:F200 (talk) 20:38, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Patriot Front at Satancon

The Patriot Front protested outside the "largest Satanic gathering in history" yesterday.[2]https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/04/29/metro/satancon-targeted-by-demonstrators-including-patriot-front-members/ Should this be added to the page? 98.20.132.112 (talk) 14:18, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2023

Include mention that this is a federally backed group designed to create propaganda that is anti-conservative. This group is comprised entirely of federal employees from the DOJ, the FBI and the NSA. Karl Dettmer (talk) 17:04, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Callmemirela 🍁 17:30, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

People are coming from Twitter to spread the conspiracy theory

Large number of posts there. Some even claiming they never wear masks. Doug Weller talk 20:34, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Rose City Nationalist

Apparently, there is an offshoot or sub-chapter of this group called "Rose City Nationalists". A group of them were ejected from an anti-Pride protest by Proud Boys this past weekend in Portland. Two of them were unmasked with one appearing to be a federal informant who has infiltrated Antifa organizations in the past, with the other a college student who was in training to become a federal agent (he has denied it). What's curious is that the mainstream media is not following-up on the unmasking of these supposed "white nationalist extremists." Sources:

• https://www.dailydot.com/debug/proud-boys-clash-patriot-front/
• https://www.koin.com/local/clackamas-county/oregon-city-pride-event-06242023/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.130.15.129 (talk) 18:16, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Meh. Daily Dot is a "no consensus" source, and at the moment there's not much to the story beyond "Rival extremists had a fight, Twitter randos think they were feds." If more sources pick it up and provide more detail it might fit in the "False flag conspiracy" section. Squeakachu (talk) 18:57, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

This is a late comment, but the Rose City Nationalists are NOT Patriot Front. They are part of the Active Club Network and affiliated more with the Rise Above Movement than with Patriot Front. Any connections between the two are overplayed or misinformed. 173.0.34.229 (talk) 20:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Jared Boyce

One of the 31 demonstrators who was arrested in Coeur d’Alene was imprisoned for sexual exploitation of a child, after explicit material was found on his phone following his initial arrest. It seems relevant because the same group was accusing LGBT people of grooming children. See [3] 2604:2D80:6984:3800:0:0:0:8734 (talk) 22:28, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Reference #35 update

Next to Reference #35, please change "Salem, Connecticut" to "Salem, Massachusetts" SkyquakeTV (talk) 03:10, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

 Done , thanks! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 03:19, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Wiki is Defining a Political Movement According to ADL?!

Only worse would Wiki define the headline as per the Sermon of some Priest / Imam / Rabi / Buddhist monk? ADL is known as an agenda belonging to a specific league of lawyers belonging to a specific Agenda and race. Why not checking the Patriot Front constitution itself and place it in the definition? Thank you. 2.50.149.153 (talk) 06:55, 6 September 2023 (UTC)

The statements in the article's lead section are sourced to many reliable sources, not just ADL. You need to read the footnotes. Wikipedia goes by independent secondary sources, not by any organization's self-description. This is because when organizations describes themselves, they are all of them all humanitarian and benevolent (what a surprise). Bishonen | tålk 08:05, 6 September 2023 (UTC).

Update Members Count?

In a recent video from Patriot Front at 2:08 they claimed the membership had "grown by almost 100 members". Considering the last time it was updated was 2021 with 200 members, should it not be updated to 300? 173.0.34.229 (talk) 20:58, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Forbes "Senior Contributor" used as a source

Footnote 66:

Novak, Matt. "Elon Musk Feeds Viral Conspiracy Theory That Patriot Front Actually 'Feds'". Forbes. Archived from the original on January 20, 2024. Retrieved January 21, 2024.

I don't think this should be used as a source. See WP:FORBESCON

Alternative, perhaps:

https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/fed-front-conspiracy-theories-about-federal-government-involvement-in-far-right-extremism-resurface

Can't edit that in, because the article is semi-protected, and I only have 7 edits so far. Oberman23 (talk) 23:34, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

I added the suggested alternative as an additional source. I saw no need to remove the Forbes article as, at least in this instance, the actual content does not appear to be disputed or at-odds with other sources. Dmoore5556 (talk) 00:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Oberman23 (talk) 17:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)