Talk:Panther II tank

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Schmalturm

If "everything we know is wrong", then that's going to take some mighty sourcing. Andy Dingley (talk) 01:52, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jentz (2006), pp. 5–212^[1] has been given as a source for this. However that's being used as a citation for "The Panther II was to be fitted with a new turret, the Turm Panther 2 (schmale Blendenausführung)."^[1] and not in relation to the Schmalturm. Anything related to the Schmalturm remains unsourced. Also a citation to a 200 page spread is hardly useful (was this another "That book looks useful" search on Amazon?), particularly when it's a 56 page book! A book which is over a decade old (and yet this challenged knowledge is "new"). Also, a book which has a cover image of a Panther with the Saukopf mantlet and thus what's presumably a Schmalturm.

So, what does Jentz actually say?

Where does this "The Schmalturm was not for the Panther" claim come from, what does that claim say, and what else was the Schmalturm for? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:00, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Schmalturm was in development for the Panther II but that wasn't the better known Schmalturm later developed by Daimler-Benz for the Panther F. They looked somewhat similar although the Panther II version was stopped on the drawing board. --Denniss (talk) 14:03, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source? One that is recent, accurate, detailed and covers both? If so, can you please fix it. But what we don't need is either unsourced changing, or yet more World of Tanks game-sourcing. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:12, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The edits were not wrong in this case but wording was poor and the link to Schmalturm was removed which has some coverage but probably poor sources. The work by Jentz/Doyle should be seen as the most recent work which covers almost everything regarding the Panther II and is backed by existing factory data and whatever they were able to find in allied archives. Although Jentz sadly died some years ago but his research and work by companions like Hilary Doyle were a leap forward in documenting german armored vehicle development and production during WW2. --Denniss (talk) 14:18, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

212

first of all, we KNOW that the Schmalturm was developed AFTER the Panther II was cancelled. is this not enough? are you THAT dense? and WORLD OF TANKS SOURCING? AHAHAHAHHAAHAHA world of tanks. I don't even play it. also, the WoT fanbase all know about the Schmalturm not being used on the Panther II already. "everything we know is wrong" everything "I know is wrong"* and wording was poor? WRITE IT YOURSELF THEN IF YOU WANT INSTEAD OF REVERTING BACK TO THE FALSE INFO LuckyBlockYoshi (talk) 04:39, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

about the 200 page thing, you must understand how the pages work. the "book" is split into parts. "5-212" means the 5th panzer tracts (Panzer Tracts No. 5), the "212" page number continues off of the previous parts of No. 5 - Panzer Tracts No. 5-1, Panzer Tracts No. 5-2 and Panzer Tracts No. 5-3. wow, you must REALLY be living under a rock in the early 2000s if you don't even know what PANZER TRACTS ARE. also, you speak as if you've read the book, so i guess this doesn't mean anything to you. https://i.imgur.com/OtZRAjm.png must mean you want an exact "I, Thomas L. Jentz, believes that the Schmalturm was not designed for the Panther II, but the Panther Ausf. F. I also believe that the turret designed for the Panther II is called "Turm-Panther 2 (schmale Blendenausführung)" and nothing else." the tank on the cover is a Panther Ausf. F. but i guess you think otherwise because you live under a rock or something.

Do you have a source for the Schmalturm being used for the Panther II? One that is recent, accurate, detailed and covers both? like the Panzer Tracts No. 5-4 that i have here? LuckyBlockYoshi (talk) 04:54, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Leave your rants elsewhere and try a civil discussion style. Yes is was not the Schmalturm developed for Panther F but it was somewhat similar + there's some development history in the Schmalturm article whose link ou simply deleted. --Denniss (talk) 09:55, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

do you expect me to be civil when i've had to deal with this shit tens of times with people ignoring everything? also, dont remember editing the Schmalturm article. sorry i guess. (unless if it was an Achtung Panzer! page because no) LuckyBlockYoshi (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Then that citation should be Jentz (2006), p. 5-212 , not Jentz (2006), pp. 5–212 Andy Dingley (talk) 11:33, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

simple typo then, whoops LuckyBlockYoshi (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b Jentz, Thomas L. (2006). Panzer Tracts No. 5-4 Panzerkampfwagen Panther II and Panther Ausf. F. Atglen, PA: Panzer Tracts. pp. 5–212. ISBN 978-0977164325. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

[Jentz-1] Jentz, Thomas L. (2006). Panzer Tracts No. 5-4 Panzerkampfwagen Panther II and Panther Ausf. F. Atglen, PA: Panzer Tracts. pp. 5–212. ISBN 978-0977164325. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

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