Talk:Kandahar massacre

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Kandahar massacre has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

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Date	Process	Result
August 25, 2012	Good article nominee	Listed

A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "In the news" column on March 12, 2012.

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on March 11, 2022, and March 11, 2023.

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Text from Panjwayi District Incident was copied into Panjwai shooting spree with this edit and this one. Panjwayi District Incident now serves to provide attribution for that content in Panjwai shooting spree and must not be deleted so long as Panjwai shooting spree exists. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see this history; for its talk page, see Talk:Panjwayi District Incident.

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Category "War Crimes committed by the United States"

I removed the category "War Crimes committed by the United States" here. Staff Sergeant Bales obviously committed war crimes by murdering Afghan civilians in the incident in question. However, the fact that he was a United States Army Soldier at the time he committed the murders does not automatically make the incident a "War Crime committed by the United States" (as a side note, an appropriate category would be "War Crimes committed by United States military personnel", or something similar). There is nothing in the article indicating that the killings were directed by Bales chain of command or that the United States Government was complicit in the murders. If an editor wants a category like "War Crimes committed by the United States" to be included in this article, there must be an appropriate reference justifying it. Where is it? Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 04:24, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You want to rename "War Crime committed by the United States" to "War Crimes committed by United States military personnel"? Aren't all war crimes committed by the United States committed by United States military personnel? In my view this is flawed logic. How about the My Lai Massacre?

References are given. This is a war crime commuted by a United States Army Staff Sgt. Leaving his base committing the massacre returning to the base all during his deployment to Afghanistan, fighting a war for the United States. Clark County Hospital (talk) 07:38, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have to agree with @Clark County Hospital: on this one, and support the reinstatement of the cat. Bales was a member of the US military at the time of the incident, ergo the incident was carried out by US military personnel, ergo the incident was carried out by the US. I believe (according to the article and sources therein,) that he was in his military fatigues and used US military hardware to carry out the killings as well.

The fact that he wasn't under orders to carry out such actions does not remove the responsibility of the US from the outcome. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He was definitely a United States Army soldier at the time of the murders by law, regardless of what he was wearing or the weapons he used. All war crimes committed by a nation are committed by their military personnel, but does it follow that all war crimes committed by military personnel automatically mean the nation itself committed a war crime? My Lai had chain of command involvement with officers ordering soldiers to carry out the killings. Setting that aside for a minute, why is the United States the only nation to have a Wikipedia category name formulated this way? For example, why do we have "French war crimes" instead of "War crimes committed by France", "Japanese war crimes" instead of "War crimes committed by Japan", "Israeli war crimes" instead of "War crimes committed by Israel", and so on? In this regard, one would expect to see it categorized as "American war crimes" in keeping with using an adjective to identify the nationality of the perpetrator(s) rather than implying the nation itself committed a war crime using the specific language "committed by (Proper Name)". Regards, AzureCitizen (talk) 21:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what you're suggesting there. Are you suggesting that the cat is renamed to "American war crimes"? I wouldn't have a problem with that due to consistency with other cats. (Although I would be against "War Crimes committed by United States military personnel" for the same reasons as CCH.) The end result is still that the US govt is responsible for servicemen, and that they are then responsible for their actions. The phrasing is just semantics. It's the removal of the cat altogether that I oppose. Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:57, 9 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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