Talk:Ostflucht

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Correction

Hello visitors. This page needs correction.

So far I have removed this sentence: "Another reason for the creation of the settlement commision was the growing activity of radical polnish nationalist groups, who tryed to destroy the territorial integrity of the country. "

Reason: strong bias suspected. If his sentence refers to groups which wanted to restore Poland in Province of Posen (Wielkopolska), then indeed they would destroy the teritorial integrity of Germany in the same way as Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia destroyed the integrity of Soviet Union. I hope the parallel is clear. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and it MUST retain a standard of entries which meets cetrain, well defined standards. Clear facts, not manipulated facts.

Another sentence needs rephrasing: "These groups wanted more than just cultural autonomy". Sounds like those damn Poles just wanted to destroy Eastern Germany. A quick reviev of historic events: Poles from the Province of Posen (Wielkopolska) didn't move to East Germany, but rather to Ruhrgebiet (spelling?), because there was work to be found. While I'm not a historian, I cannot recall any groups of Poles moving to Brandenburg - what for? Any sources? BTW There was migration to Berlin, both Polish and German - Berlin was the nearby large city (e.g. Paul von Hindenburg)

Please quote sources: "At the same time, increased immigration into the eastern German regions by Poles from western Russia caused". Poles from Western Russia? I'm not sure any Russian citizens were able to freely travel abroad - as they were forbidden to travel freely within Russia itself!

Again, a strong appeal: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and it MUST retain a standard of entries which meets standards. Clear facts, not manipulated facts.

LMB

I will add some info

On ethnic structure of emigration to USA.--Molobo (talk) 15:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why? How is this related to Ostflucht?Skäpperöd (talk) 16:57, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ostfluch concerns citizens of German Empire,which was multi-ethnic state, although dominated by one ethnic group that discriminated others. However this event was not restricted to ethnic Germans.--Molobo (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrpolen

They weren't a seperate group but Poles. Current text is wrong.--Molobo (talk) 15:11, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, Poles living at Ruhr River, seperated from the rest of the Poles by most of Germany. How is your deletion [1] connected to that point? Skäpperöd (talk) 18:37, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As you said-Poles not other Slavic group with mixed ancestry as it is stated now..--Molobo (talk) 18:36, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All the article states is that among the people called Ruhrpolen were also some with mixed ancestry. I don't see where they are called a distinct Slavic group. Skäpperöd (talk) 21:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"among the people called Ruhrpolen were also some with mixed ancestry" Soure ? "I don't see where they are called a distinct Slavic group"-Then you shall have no problem with making it precise and naming Poles Poles rather then people from mixed Slavic-German ethnicity ?--Molobo (talk) 21:50, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most of those territories

Were majority Polish and taken in Partitions of Poland.--Molobo (talk) 15:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Most" is false, the rest is correct but what is your point?Skäpperöd (talk) 16:56, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most is false ? What is the area of territories taken in Partitions compared to rest of territories of Ostflucht ? "what is your point" Just to make precise the area in which Germans fled, it is notable that it was not a native area of German people, but land German states intended to colonise and Germanise.Ostfluch thus was a partial failure of colonisation effort.--Molobo (talk) 21:52, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(1) Of all Eastern Prussian provinces, only Posen and West Prussia relate to the partitions of Poland. That is not "most", but 2.

(2) Germans did not "flee", even if the literally translation of "Ostflucht" might suggest that. Rather the term "Ostflucht" is comparable with "Landflucht". It was a migration for economic reasons and not a flight.

(3) The Germans who migrated were native to these territories. They had been there since the Middle Ages, read History of Poland. The Germanisation attempts took place in the early 20th cty and were made - partly - to contradict Ostflucht. Skäpperöd (talk) 08:48, 17 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1-they are most in territorial area.

2-Source for your claim ? 3-Incorrect. Those territories were left by German tribes who just moved through the area befor invading and destroying much of Western Europe. Slavs and Poles established first organised and durable states in the area, Germans in the area were the result of Germanic invasion and systematic colonisation of Polish areas and colonisation efforts by Prussia(for example in Silesia) and later Germany.--Molobo (talk) 20:00, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect sentence

"At the same time, increased immigration into the eastern German regions by Poles from western Russia caused imbalances and upheavals there, especially in Upper Silesia." This is incorrect. Prussian sources note that in 1829 Polish population counted 61,1 % of Upper Silesia, while in 1849 decreased to 58,6%--Molobo (talk) 15:20, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]