Talk:Opel Vectra/Archive 1

Archive 1

Chevrolet Vectra

I would like to propose to carve out a separate article on the Chevrolet Vectra out of this one (it is currently a redirect). The rationale is that the nameplate, contrary to Vauxhall Vectra and Holden Vectra, has not only been used to denote rebaged Opel Vectras, but is also now used to denote a separate model derived from the Opel Astra C/H in Brazil and some other Latin American countries. This model obviously needs its own article, and it could also be a good place to explain the usage of the brand in Latin American countries (the generations were slightly shifted in time, and e.g. the Mexican market is different, as there the Vectra is still the Opel Vectra, now imported from Europe). Apart from the detailed discussion of the current Brazilian Chevrolet Vectra, the article would mostly consist of redirects to particular generations of Opel Vectras, not to create redundant content. How about that? Bravada, talk - 20:50, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I second that. The current Brazilian Chevrolet Vectra is a unique model, no longer related to the Opel Vectra. --Pc13 20:04, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Forward-looking statements

One or more users have recently been repeatedly adding "information" on the possibility of the Vectra being imported to the US as a Saturn. I would like to explain why the inclusion of such information is improper in the encyclopedia.

First of all, please approach media reports with more criticism. Reports such as [1] try to make gossip and speculation appear as definite facts. Do also note how no GM executive appears under this statement under his or her actual name, which means GM does NOT officially confirm this, moreover, Forster diplomatically says that it is rather not true than the opposite. Automakers consider many different possibilities, and this generates gossip on which media thrive - would you want to read AutoNews or whatever if it only contained what you can find in manufacturer's press releases?

Secondly, this is an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia does not have to be on the cutting edge of news/gossip, it has to be 100% factually accurate. And the only 100% sure facts are the one that have already happened. In this case, the closest to that would be GM officially announcing it will import the Vectra as Saturn, and the only valid source for that would be media.gm.com. Media speculation can often prove untrue quite quickly, and is also often conflicting - if we included all the media speculation (also quoting "GM executives" and saying that it was "almost certain), then the Ford Freestyle article should have at one point included information that it will be cancelled, it won't, there will be a Mercury version alognside it, exclusively, or there will be no such version, and also that Mercury would be killed as a brand altogether (such reports were to be found in the media almost simultaneously, and had the same degree of reliability as the one repeatedly quoted in this article).

Please understand that Wikipedia is different from other sites you might be acquainted with, such as www.GMInsideNews.com, in that it is an encyclopedia. There are certain unique characteristics of an encyclopedia (even if it is an online free one which anybody can edit) - see WP:NOT for important examples (see section 1.9 especially). Regards, Bravada, talk - 09:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

inaccurate information about Vectra A diesel engines.

wikipedia stated:The only Diesel engine was an Isuzu 1.7 L unit, in both naturally-aspirated and turbocharged form, this one capable of achieving 82 PS (60 kW). . This is however not true. There were 2 diesel engines. There was one NA diesel from Opel (1.7D) with engine capacity of 1700ccm developing 42kw(57hp), and one turbo-diesel engine from Isuzu (1.7TD)with 1686ccm and 82hp. In 1992 the power of the NA( naturally-aspirated) Opel diesel (now 1.7dr) was raised to 60 hp.

Stefan Igor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.162.51.20 (talk • contribs) 20:37, October 9, 2006

Comment left within article by 86.41.100.122 on 02:11, 17 February 2007

"(I speak from first hand experience of working with UK & Rep. of Ireland models) In some European countries, Vectra A models prior to the 1993 facelift were sold with a naturally aspirated, Opel-designed, 1.7 diesel (57 BHP), which was also available in the later Kadett E and early Astra F/A. This naturally aspirated engine remained available until the release of the Vectra B in 1995, although it became much less popular post-facelift due to the superior performance of the more powerful, turbocharged Isuzu diesel engine. The Isuzu 1.7 turbodiesel engine arrived in 1992, just a few months before the facelift of the Vectra A. Some 1992 pre-facelift Vectras featured the Isuzu engine. The naturally aspirated 1.7 Isuzu diesel was not available in the Vectra A, it was instead used in the Opel Combi van. The same Isuzu 1.7 TD was later used in the Vectra B up to 1997. (Replaced then by the 2.0 Opel Ecotec diesel.) It also remained in the Astra F/A until the release of Astra G/B in 1998. (In fact with the Astra F/A both the Isuzu 1.7 TD and a turbocharged version of the older 1.7 Opel diesel were available until the Astra facelift in 1995, with only the Isuzu TD continuing in the Astra F/A after the facelift.) In the Vectra B the air intake of the Isuzu 1.7 TD was slightly changed, so that the air filter was now located in the air intake box behind the right hand headlamp. Previously, with the Vectra A (and also the Astra F/A), the air filter of the Isuzu TD was located centrally, just above the rear of the engine. A smaller bore 1.5 litre turbo version of the Isuzu diesel was used in the Corsa B."

I've moved this comment from the main article to the talk page as all discussion should be on the talk page.

Bob f it 16:06, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect "top of the line" engine for Vectra B

The article currently states that "the top of the line was a 2.5 L V6 with 170 PS (125 kW)". This can't be correct, because I'm currently looking to purchase an unmodified 2002 Vectra B with a 2.6 L V6, and I've had the engine size confirmed. I don't have numbers for power output at the moment, so I won't change the article yet. If anyone disagrees, please object now! ahpla (talk) 15:00, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

OK, I purchased the car I mentioned above. The engine size is correct, so I have amended the article. I found a website which says the 2.6 was the same power as the 2.5 but with more torque, so I have intentionally left the power rating unedited. ahpla (talk) 06:27, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Removed strange criticism

I am removing this sentence:

It has been criticised heavily by journalists for the quality of its chassis and its bland styling inside and out, especially Jeremy Clarkson who expressed his opinions that it is "One of my least favourite cars in the world. I've always hated it because I've always felt it was designed in a coffee break by people who could not care less about cars" and "one of the worst chassis I've ever come across".

Do not revert it unless:

• you specify what journalists beside Clarkson claim it,
• you provide some details (not just "Clarkson believes it's bad"),
• better cite some renowned car-designer or car-maker and not just some journalist (whatever popular he is).

Beside that I think that the tone of the citation does not belong to any encyclopedia.

--Ondrejsv (talk) 18:39, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Added information about Saturn Aura

I have added information about the Saturn Aura as it was lacking from this article. The Saturn Aura is the American/Canadian nameplate of the Opel Vectra and deserves noting here. It has been available since the 2007 model year and continues to be available today. --Mortonar (talk) 20:07, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

The Saturn Aura is NOT a "nameplate of the Opel Vectra", it is a rebodied Pontiac G6, or a different body style of the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu if you please. Both the Saturn, Pontiac and Malibu ride on the LWB version of the North American rendition of GM's "Epsilon architecture", which is very different from Opel's SWB Epsilon the Vectra C sedan was built upon. Apart from obviously different bodies (the Saturn being far larger than the Vectra), they also have little to do underneath the sheetmetal, with even engine mounting points being different (which is why the Vectra and the Aura do not share even a single engine), as well as Aura's electrical system allegedly not supporting navigation (which came standard in many versions of the Vectra C). The interior of the Aura is also very different from the Vectra, and is closely related to that of the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu.

In short, the cars only share a similar front end styling, which GM used in their PR for the Saturn. PrinceGloria (talk) 22:27, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

PrinceGloria's above comment as "rephrased" by Mortonar.

The Saturn Aura is NOT a "nameplate of the Opel Vectra", it is a rebodied Pontiac G6, or a different body style of the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu if you please. Both the Saturn, Pontiac and Malibu ride on the LWB version of the North American rendition of GM's "Epsilon architecture", which is very different from Opel's SWB Epsilon the Vectra C sedan was built upon. Apart from obviously different bodies (the Saturn being far larger than the Vectra), they also have little to do underneath the sheetmetal, with even engine mounting points being different (which is why the Vectra and the Aura do not share even a single engine), as well as Aura's electrical system allegedly not supporting navigation (which came standard in many versions of the Vectra C). The interior of the Aura is also very different from the Vectra, and is closely related to that of the 2008 Chevrolet Malibu.

In short, the cars only share a similar front end styling, which GM used in their PR for the Saturn. PrinceGloria (talk) 22:27, 22 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortonar (talk • contribs) 02:55, 23 March 2009

(This seems like similar to what PrinceGloria stated above only because Mortonar deleted his comment without me realising) As PrinceGloria stated in the edit summary. "The Saturn Aura is a rebodied Pontiac G6, it is only nominally related to the Opel Vectra by means of GM's "Epsilon platform". There is very little technical commonality between those two cars." In summary, they ARE different vehicles. Okay, they share the GM Epsilon platform platform and maybe a few other components, but that is it. Maybe people get confused because the facelift Vectra C and Aura have similar front-ends? OSX (talk • contributions) 04:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

OSX's above comment as "rephrased" by Mortonar.

As PrinceGloria stated in the edit summary. "The Saturn Aura is not a rebodied Pontiac G6, it is very closely related to the Opel Vectra by means of GM's "Epsilon platform". There are many technical commonalities between those two cars." In summary, they ARE the same vehicles. I apologize for my tone earlier, offense was not intended. I will make sure that I'm more careful the next time. OSX (talk • contributions) 04:48, 23 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortonar (talk • contribs) 03:23, 25 March 2009

I have changed the information about parent company and subsidiary. General Motors is the parent company, GM Europe is a subsidiary of GM making GM the parent company of Opel as well. GM Europe is not an independent corporation so cannot be considered the parent company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mortonar (talk • contribs) 14:24, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your constructive edit. By the way, I have reinstated your "rephrasings" of PrinceGloria's and my own comments above—as they are somewhat amusing to read (that said, in future, please leave other people's comments alone). OSX (talk • contributions) 23:31, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure thing.--Mortonar (talk) 17:57, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

Vauxhall Vectra SRi and SXi

Vauxahll Vextra - needs to mention about the SRi and SXi.

The SRi and some SXi models have sports lowered suspension fitted to them as standard.

I presume they would also have different trim levels etc.

Mitchel 217.46.193.6 (talk) 16:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

"Inadequate safety car"

I've removed this sentence, because I think it needs a better source.

The source[2] states "Senna was visibly upset by the pace set by the inadequate official car, an Opel Vectra". Firstly, it is not made clear how a helmeted and strapped in person could be visibly upset over something. Secondly - that's only one persons opinion; just because Senna (apaprently) thought it inadequate does not make it so until other sources agree with this single dubious statement. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:01, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Liftback or hatchback?

Can you provide sources to show that the Vectra is classed as a liftback, not a hatch? Most professional journals reliable sources seem to consider it a hatch - including Vauxhall themselves - and it's not confusing at all to also have the Signum classed as a hatchback.

1. [3] - Vauxhall Vectra owners manual
2. [4] - refers to it as both hatchback & liftback - "As usual, the hatchback, or liftback, was the middle road between the other two bodyworks"
3. [5] - which makes a definite distinction between a hatchback and a liftback type of car
4. [6] - Haynes manual says "Saloon and Hatchback, including special/limited editions."

Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:45, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

I think you answer your own question with all those nice links you just gave us. Though I'm not sure what we are to understnad by "professional journals": something about the eye of the beholder? But most of those sources you cite appear to originate in or near to England. If you use British English you write hatchback. Of you use American English you most likely write liftback. As far as I know the Vectra was always aimed at and sold on European markets, including the British (Vauxhall) and Irish (Opel) markets. Several Mercedes-Benz models - even if they're assembled in Germany - are aimed at and in large numbers sold in the US market. Then there's the added complexity from cars sold in large numbers in countries where English is widely spoken as a second language by people blissfully unaware as to whether the English they are using is British English or American English or some soupy combination incorporating both these and other variants. As far as I remember, wikipedia says that when you improve and entry you should stick to the version of English used by the person who contributed the article in the forst place. In practice, especially where, as here, one article attracts many contributors, you will get a mixture just as, in the world outside wikipedia, most of us end up understanding lots of different versions of English and communicating in several of them. On a personal level I learned my basic English in England, so of course you warm my heart when you solemnly go through an entry on a European model replacing "liftback" with "hatchback". And to me it seems likely that more of your customers for an entry on the Vectra will be in Europe than in North America. But if your goal is monolingual purity, then I fear that you are doomed to go through life accompanied by a certain level of disappointment.

Regards Charles01 (talk) 11:53, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Updated the original statement with "reliable sources" instead of "professional journals" - and what I mean by that is that if Parker's Car Guides and Vauxhall themselves call it a hatch, then that's probably the term we should use as well. As to the rest of your response - I appreciate the time you took, but think you may need to read up on WP:ENGVAR, which essentially exists to prevent exactly what you describe in much of the text: We do not mix engvar styles, and if an article has ties to a specific geographic region - even if begun in engvar "A" - then it is perfectly acceptable, if not even preferred - to edit it to match geographic region's engvar "B".

However, as the term "liftback" is not a style of engvar, that's completely beside the point. The issue here is what is the most accurate (according to reliable sources) description of the bodystyle, and the most authoritarian sources so far seem to support "hatchback". As you yourself point out, the Vectra is predominantly a European car, so it's hardly surprising that sources will be euro-centric. I found a couple of sources for the Brazillian & Egyptian variants, but as they were only released as saloon, it's somewhat irrelevant. Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:41, 9 April 2022 (UTC)

Opel and Vauxhall Vectra C

The saloon was offered as an Opel but the liftback and estate was offered by Opel and Vauxhall. --Lamborghinimaster (talk) 07:23, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

The Vectra C saloon was available as a Vauxhall. Are you thinking of the VXR variant? That was only available as hatchback or estate in the UK. Chaheel Riens (talk) 11:25, 13 April 2022 (UTC)