Talk:Opawa

Hansen Park

@user:Alexeyevitch This follows discussion on the Christchurch talk page yesterday... This should give you an idea of a notable feature of Hanson Park, the Opawa Loop and flooding problems of the Heathcote. It is not a proper secondary source but it is good enough for now. I suggest look at similar sources to get a better overview of the history of Opawa and the issues that make it what it is today. There is more to Opawa than a few listed buildings. There are also notable buildings that are not listed. Being listed is not an exclusive mark of notability. This source will also be useful for other parts of the Heathcote such as in the Beckenham Loop that still has major flooding issues. It will also be useful for a special section in the article about the river, if one doesn't exist, and for an article on Christchurch land fill sites. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 10:10, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, if there are more notable buildings plz provide suggestions about the listed houses. Need a new image in the infobox, ideally a high-res image of the main retail area (other articles tend to do this). This is a good history book about the suburb but it is in-library use only. Also this article needs to be engaing to (especially to international readers), it doesn't matter how boring and ordinary Opawa may appear on the surface, the WP article should be interesting/engaging to readers. Thx. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:47, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

If the link doesn't work go to Wikilibrary or elsewhere and search Oldfield, Isobel..The Hansen Park legacy. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 11:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:30, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Ōpāwaho / Heathcote River

@user:Alexeyevitch This is not about your fallback position of "the official name is not its common name" Maybe this rule needs to be ammended. This sentence "The Māori name for the area is "Ōpāwaho", it is also the name of the Ōpāwaho / Heathcote River" does not make sense unless the river is named as the linked article

I will copy a bit of txt that Roger said a few days ago: "Please note the link to WP rules provided. The name to use is the commonly used and understood name by English speakers, as in the link provided. The official name of a place is not the name to use. If they are the same that is coincidental. I encourage you to create a user name and profile, it will help establish credibility." It is also discouraged to add Māori (or any other non-English) translations to articles which don't really need them... it fluffs up the article and might make it difficult to understand to non-NZ readers (e.g someone from HK). Aoraki / Mount Cook is obviously an excpetion to this. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:14, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, I (usually) enjoy being quoted. The IP/Outis has illustrated just one of the problems caused by the decision of some NZ editors to try to accomodate the recent politically based name changes of NZGB - it doesn't work (and has caused countless hours of wasted time discussing the issue.) The simplest approach is to use the established names and mention the NZGB official name in the first sentence. The new official name should only be used if it has become established, which will rarely be the case. Contemporary official sources should not be used because they are not independent, which in practice means we will have to decide on a case by case basis for the very few names that ever do become borderline. Regarding the problems that arise from trying to placate the PC people, the confusion that arises from calling Opawa and the Heathcote River anything other than Opawa and the Heathcote is an obvious case in point. It won't be too long before use of these new names will, in some way, be restricted in law to apply common sense (much like the use of the new incomprehensible names of Crown Entities is being restricted). But, to stay on topic, yes, the name to use here and everywhere in Wikipedia is the commonly used and understood name, unless a specific situation requires otherwise. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:21, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Sentences

How is this supported? "The railways had local significance, they stimulated settlement beyond the confines of the "original suburbs".

How do you get from the first sentence to the second? "In Opawa, residents had frequent trains to Christchurch passing daily through the district. When compared with the other modes of transportation, train travel was not convenient or simple." There are multiple trains daily but not convenient or simple? Where's the explainer?

This sentence seems a bit backwards: "The Main South Line used to provide one of Christchurch's largest industries the Addington Railway Workshops, in Addington" The Line is not the employer. New Zealand Railways was.

Long, could do with a break: "The primary road supporting the transportion in the area is State Highway 76 (Brougham Street) which traverses from the north through the suburb, also through Sydenham and Brougham Street, going thoroughfare the suburbs of Hillsborough and Opawa, then Port Hills Road connecting with Tunnel Road to pass through the Lyttelton road tunnel at Heathcote Valley."

Industrialism is the economic system: not the correct use in this sentence "who wished to leave Woolston's industrialism". Probably better to write "people who wished to leave the industrial areas of Woolston" or something else.

Probably better to write "According to [authors name] Opawa was Christchurch's first high society suburb". Would be better to reference the book, rather than use a very light feature written for the property pages in a local newspaper. Also why is the book not used/referenced (Opawa - the Outpost on the Banks of the Heathcote/Noel Gillespie); it's a more recent publication than the others referenced.

Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 05:58, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

1. Because the book is in-library use only.

2. Implementing these suggestions yourself is good.

3. This article is written for all, not just New Zealanders. A reader would expect this content.

4. The source said business men but it is better written in gender-neutral terms.

5. How did you get access to the "High society in Opawa" reference? Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:14, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

1. Because the book is in-library use only.

There are borrowing copies.

2. Implementing these suggestions yourself is good.

When I do any of these you revert them. Also, write better.

3. This article is written for all not just New Zealanders. A reader would expect this content.

What does this refer to?

5. How did you get access to the "High society in Opawa" reference?

Why did you link to an article if you didn't read it?

Also, where is 4. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

4 is there now. And I don't know what you are referring to. However, it is most likely that the people in business would have been men. Anyway I was talking about the desire to label everything with a "class", someone in business is not necessarily middle class. That's an assumption. You are better to use neutral language. Workers, factory workers not working class. Business owners, professionals, white collar workers, not middle class. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:30, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

At present time... there are not. I'm a local here and I asked the librarian and they said the book was in-library use (I didn't have my laptop with me at the time so it was pointless)

Also, I agree back in the day the people in the business were men. As I stated earlier: it is more gender-neutral to simply say "business people".

I stated that this is written for everyone. It is difficult for readers to read NZ articles when they are entirely written from a NZ prespective.

I'm also curious how you got access to the "High society in Opawa" reference? Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:55, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

High society: in the article you cited. Unsure where you are but here in Christchurch our libraries have borrowing copies of the book, and library pc's to look up that information. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 07:27, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I think you are mistaken here. I cited a press article about the book via ProQuest. Please CITE what page you got this from in the book and I will be able to confirm whether this is true or not once I aquire it.

I'm literally a local here... I'm skeptical if you are from here or not but it seems unlikely. Your username mentions Golden Bay. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:44, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Did you read that article? You should read articles if you are citing them. That's a direct line from the article which is talking to the author of the book. Why are you citing references when you haven't read the content?

I'm not sure that you are a local as you don't seem to have access to Christchurch libraries. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 08:17, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm too skeptical about this. If your main goal is to irritate and regularly follow me around then I simply don't want to be affiliated with you. I suggest trialing to edit other articles and see if you enjoy them rather than just sticking to this topic. If you have any other accounts you must disclose them. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 08:32, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I have edited the source on this as I think you are attempting to hide your sense of ownership of this article. Rather than editing the article or talking about the issues with it you have made comments taking the talk page off topic. I have edited and explained, you have reverted; I made suggestions on the talk page, you have disputed. Wikipedia allows multiple people to edit - Wikipedia:Ownership of content

Note also that you have made unnecessary comments on my talk page, not on topic, but simply because it seems you want to scare people away from articles you are editing. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 02:12, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

One option is to let this run its course and then re-establish an earlier version. Alexeyevitch, why not find another topic with other articles to edit, something about movies or fashion, for example. You have made around 800 edits on this one page alone since October last year with very few actually adding anything constructive. I'm trying to be helpful and repeat what I have said before - find another editor to sit with you and guide you through a contribution, showing you how and how not to edit pages, and tell you why. I have said before that editing a sentence ten times until you find your prefered wording should not be done. When I raised my concerns earlier I was shouted down by others, something that might well happen again, unfortunately. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Replying to R8R here. I said earlier: who will be the one doing this? If no one is interested than this plan won't work. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 03:43, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I know some American editors... but they would not be able to help since all of them have interests elsewhere on Wikipedia. R8R who else could "help" me? Alexeyevitch^(talk) 03:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Sock puppting is a far worse thing... deleting your userpage when you haven't logged in for a while isn't normal thing for a new user to do. If you have other accounts than I highly suggest disclosing them. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 03:40, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I really do not understand the level of animosity on display here towards @Alexeyevitch. As far as I can tell from a quick review of their recent changes, this article has been substantially improved by them. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 04:05, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

There is no animosity from me at all. I'm just commenting on what I see. Just look above, there is a list of sentences that have to be re-arranged or alterted, as stated by another editor, not me. All, yes all, of the article will have to be checked for similar problems. I cannot understand why you think it is acceptable to have one editor spend eight months adding 800 edits to an article that can only ever be a fairly small article (a 160 year old suburb in a 180 year old city). I did not mean removing everything that's been added - I meant going back to an earlier version and then adding to it what is of value in the current version. That would be quicker than working through what is there now and altering it. Please don't forget this applies to many articles, not just Opawa. Alexeyevitch, I have no personal grievance towards you, I'm just making what I think is a helpful suggestion - move to another subject and take advantage of what you have learned from all your work on Christchurch suburbs. I've made a couple of suggestions online which you are ignoring, such as write a draft offline first before posting online, and then leave it alone. And remember, I know nothing about you except you are American, which really doesn't make any difference to anything.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Roger 8 Roger (talk • contribs) 04:28, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I suggest rewording it if there is a problem with it. I am not sure who will be the one reviewing the drafts... I deny or accept who will be the one revewing it (since this is completely a sugestion). There are numerous reasons why Opawa is notable and I don't agree with removing content about notable landmarks or almost anything (if it's good in an encyclopedia). Alexeyevitch^(talk) 04:51, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

@Roger 8 Roger if you have suggestions plz list them elsewhere (not in this discussion) I will apply them in to the article. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

If you have issues with the prose, edit the prose to fix the issues. This is the nature of a collaborative encyclopaedia. Posting a list of complaints to the talk page does not seem productive to me.

This article has been substantially expanded from a Start-class (borderline stub really) to at least a B-class in the space of under a month. As far as I can see, they are the only one responsible for this dramatic improvement. Quibbling over their choice of sentence structure does nothing productive, especially when it is something any of us can fix. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 05:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I'll prioritize using secondary sources rather than entirely using CCC sources. That is good. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:11, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not sure who you are responding to @Cloventt

If you read what I wrote you will see that I posted the sentence corrections on the talk page because Alexeyevitch was consistently either reverting or editing any changes despite explanations (and not just edits I was making, other editors as well). I also suggested using a more modern book (2007 as opposed to Morrison's 1940s history), and changed a quote from an article. If you look at the replies from Alexeyevitch you can see they attacked the suggestions rather than looking at it as an opportunity to improve the article and the writing.

The other thing here is Alexeyevitch's hostility and attacks: e.g. comments such as "following me around", "disclose accounts","sock puppet". Quite a few examples on this page. This seems designed to shut down other editors. And this follows their comment on my talk page on 20 June:

"while they're edits so far have not been disruptive (actually pretty good) I found the editing patern a bit "odd" and I am a little bit skeptical about this. I am hoping this user does not have any previous accounts than they should disclose it"

and comments like this :"Do you have any other accounts? If so, you must disclose them." when reverting edits I have made (4 July). And unwarranted comments on my choice to clear my user page.

I find this behaviour odd and hostile. I will continue to edit this and other articles I am interested in.

Alexeyevitch may have edited this page over time but they do not own it Wikipedia:Ownership of content and I can see from interactions on other pages that this is an issue they struggle with. Improving articles means accepting edits particularly when an editor seems to struggle with sentence construction, and they are not reading articles they have cited in the body of the article. How does this behaviour make this a reliable source? Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:36, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Could you also potentially use the 2007 book or nah? You claim to be local here... surely you could simply go to a local library and have a look at it. Improving the article is good. And I suggest reading it for yourself. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:48, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Kind of missed the point with this comment @Alexeyevitch but displayed a good example of the general hostility you have towards other editors. Goldenbaybutcher (talk) 06:58, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Replying to GBB here. I don't see the need for promoting punitive actions instead of building a high-quality encyclopedia. It's good to add content on some of he local articles. And focus on improvements not rules. (And see WP:Focus on content) But it is good if they do the improving the articles instead of suggesting it on the talk page. Please continue building the high-quality encyclopedia. I look foward to seeing your contributions to these "local" articles. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Hopefully there is still room to collaborate and work together in good faith.

@Alexeyevitch would you be willing to briefly step back from this page and allow this user to copyedit the article for us? The article would benefit from their help on the way to reaching GA quality in my opinion. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 07:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it would be good to see some more local editors like GBB or R8R make some improvements here. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:18, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Image in IBX

@Cloventt@Roger 8 Roger@JNZ@Schwede66

1

2

3

4

What image looks best (for now)? Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I would say number 4.

I’ve had a tough time getting representative and good-looking photos of suburbs. For Redwood I went and got photos of local landmarks with plenty of green in them. I can’t think of any better strategy than photos of roads though.

Lots of overhead powerlines in Opawa huh. David Palmer//cloventt ^(talk) 07:41, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will wait a bit longer to see what other editors think of the images. I think a photo of the main road is good for any suburb. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:49, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Some comments... Some editorial knowledge of a suburb helps. For a photo, there is no obvious spot in Opawa, it is a bit disjointed. Opawa doesn't really have a shopping area - those photos are the closest to one there is, but that isn't much and it will not be used by much of the residents in Opawa. I would focus on the Opawa Loop south of Opawa Rd, including Risingdale and Cholmondeley Ave and St Mary's Church, all near the shops but they'd provide a better photo. Alexeyevitch, you do not have to answer this and there is no hidden intent other than to better understand what is happening, but how old are you, approximately will do? Are you sure there is nobody in the real world who can act as a guide? I assume you have met other edtors?Roger 8 Roger (talk) 12:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

1. I have changed the image to Reeves Rd. This is good for now.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by "other than to better understand what is happening" plz clarify, then I will answer.

3. I will respond to that question somewhere else, it's also not appropriate discussed here. I don't want people from elsewhere knowing. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 12:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Suggestions for expanding content

The GA criteria says that the article should cover the "main aspects" of the scope. The question of what is within “main aspects” for this article can be debated, but here are some suggestions for additional content.

Amalgamation of Opawa riding with Christchurch City in 1916

The existing content about amalgamation could be expanded. Plus there are numerous online citations that could be added.

In 1915, it appears that Opawa was a “riding” of the Heathcote County, governed by the Heathcote County Council.(for a definition of riding, see: Riding_(division)) See: [1] But in December that year, there was a vote for the Opawa riding to be amalgamated with Christchurch City. See: [2], [3], and [4]. The amalgamation came into force in October 1916. See: [5], [6],[7], and [8]. Some issues mentioned in the coverage of amalgamation include the responsibility for the costs of maintaining Opawa Road, and the development and integration of public utility services including electricity.

Flooding from the Heathcote River

There have been repeated instances of flooding from the Heathcote River affecting Opawa and making the news. Here are some news reports, but it seems likely there will be many more:

• 20 August 1941 [9]
• 17 April 1962 [10]
• 13 April 1968 [11]
• 4 January 1980 [12]

@Alexeyevitch:. The Heathcote River is clearly an important feature of the geography of the suburb. I suggest including an image of the river. Fortunately, there is an excellent image here: c:File:Opawa Road bridge across Heathcote River, Christchurch, New Zealand 08.jpg. Marshelec (talk) 21:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

I have also found that there is a walking trail alongside the true left bank of the Heathcote River as it passes through Opawa. This might be worth a mention somewhere: [13]Marshelec (talk) 21:40, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Heritage-listed buildings

(in addition to those already mentioned in the article). Several have interesting history described in the sources, and could be added:

• Girls Training Hostel (former) 90 Ensors Road, Opawa[14]

• Springbank 290 Riverlaw Terrace, Opawa [15]
• House, at 44 Opawa Road, Opawa [16]
• House at 41 Opawa Road [17] Note: no details on Heritage New Zealand, but it is described on by CCC here: [18] and by Stuff here: Roxburghe House at 41A & 41D Opawa Road: [19]

@Alexeyevitch: I have come across another heritage building that is within the notional boundary of Opawa. It is a historic house called Fifield, at 14 Hawford Road.[20]. I note that there is a Fifield Terrace running alongside the Heathcote River and assume that the name of the road is linked to the historic property (although it is not the name of the original owners). There is also a tiny Fifield Reserve [21]Marshelec (talk) 04:41, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your email. I wasn't able to respond since I was busy this afternoon - I will continue work on this article and will note your suggestions on an external document, then I will incorporate the content in to the article. There still is a bit more work to do. I will be in touch if I need more help. Thank you. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 04:54, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Lost heritage

The Anglican Church of St Mark, built in 1865 (and one of Canterbury’s oldest landmarks) was destroyed by fire on 3 December 1949 [22] The article currently describes only the original church, not the fire or the rebuild.

St Mark’s Church

The replacement St Mark’s church (and its chapel addition) appear to be notable. See: [23],[24][25] and [26]

2011 Earthquake damage

A summary is needed of the damage sustained in the suburb in the Canterbury earthquakes. Searching on DigitalNZ.org, using just the search term Opawa, shows photos of damage to shops and in particular major damage to the Opawa Community Church. Unclear what happened to the church. It appears some shops in Opawa Road were demolished and also the former Opawa library. St Mark’s Church was damaged but apparently has been repaired.

@Alexeyevitch:. Update: Here is a good source about the rebuild of the Opawa Community Church, including re-cycling of the original roof structure. This is an interesting account, and worth summarising in the article.[27]. Marshelec (talk) 21:04, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Railway line

The Main South Line crosses the Heathcote River on the section through Opawa.[28]

On a related point, it would be best to move content about transport from the Geography section into a separate section.

Community and sports facilities

The article could give some coverage of significant community and sports facilities in the suburb. These would include:

• Opawa Bowling Club (appears to be still functioning). Had 50th Jubilee in 1958: [29] Notable for floodlighting installed in 1953 – said to be first floodlighting at a private tennis club in NZ. [30]
• Opawa Lawn Tennis Club (also founded in 1908) [31]
• The Alpine Ice Centre

_Marshelec (talk) 08:41, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you. I will (and maybe others) will start implementing these suggestions. I will be in touch if I need some more assistance. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 09:08, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay responding. I will avoid adding 290 Riverlaw Terrace and the Girls Training Hostel. Because the landmarks are not actually in Opawa. The Alpine Ice Centre is worth mentioning in the amenities section and it's also worth mentioning the cluster of shops in Waltham. Note: some of these shops categorize themselves as being apart of Opawa when they are actually just outside its boundaries.

Earthquake damage might need some expansion aswell.

I will continue implementing these suggestions and I think an amenities section will be good here... I will add this later today. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 23:19, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

The problem of suburb boundaries

@Alexeyevitch: I am aware that Christchurch currently has no formal definition of the boundary of suburbs, and as a result sources can vary in the name of the suburb they use for describing the location of a particular building or site. This is the case for the Alpine Ice Centre. Some sources such as Google Maps, show 495 Brougham Street, Christchurch as being in Opawa, but other sources say Waltham. I think it might be worthwhile to include a brief statement in the Geography section, perhaps along these lines: "Christchurch City currently has no formal definition of the boundaries of suburbs, and as a result there can be inconsistencies between sources in the suburb that is identified for a particular street location". Here is a citation to back this up: [32]. For signficant topics where there is inconsistency, you could perhaps say something like Opawa/Waltham (sources vary), or use a footnote to include the explanation above, if there are multiple instances. Marshelec (talk) 09:09, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

Okay, will add it. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 09:18, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I think one reason for the contradictions is that man-made boundary lines change over times. In that area, the expansion of Brougham St in the 60's has created a clear assumed boundary, one that wasn't as clear in earlier years. I think of Opawa as south of that road and the industrial area to the north being in Waltham. The ice-rink area is further complicated by Ensors Rd creating another man-made boundary. I think sources saying it is in Opawa are likely to be older, before the widening of Brougham St. To me Alpine Ice is more linked to Shakespeare Rd and the shops and light industry where it connects with Brougham, all of which s definitely in Waltham. Even south of Brougham opposite Alpine Ice is IMO better described as Waltham or even St Martins than Opawa. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 11:21, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

I think mentioning all of this content (incl. Maori content) is good for a international reader as per WP:RF . We can also mention this content there aswell but at present time I would like this article to become a good chc suburb benchmark article. The shops and light industry in Waltham can be mentioned here (clearly it's an amenity). There is also 2 drinking establishments and a fish & chips shop in the cluster of shops which claim to be apart of Opawa. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:46, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

@Marshelec & @Roger 8 Roger. I have expanded the EQ damage and added a bit more content. (see this external image of the old Opawa Library: [33]). The GA criteria says that the article should cover the "main aspects" of the scope. I think we are already at a point where it does but if others have other suggestions than it's good because more content could be added to the article. As a local here I think a reader from elsewhere would be pleasantly surprised to learn all the reasons why Opawa is notable (hopefully mentioned in the article. Incl. Maori content). Thx. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 01:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

• With regards to suburb boundary issues, I am inclined to agree that the Alpine Ice Centre should be described as being in Waltham, but it is marginal, because their own website says Opawa. This might be one good example of where the place could appear in both the Opawa and Waltham articles, with a brief explanatory note about suburb boundaries, perhaps using Template:Note.
• With regards to coverage in this article, I still think some mention should be made of the Opawa Community Church, and the interesting story of the re-use of its original roof structure (see my note about this further up the talk page)
• I also think that the history of the Heathcote River flooding some roads in Opawa is notable and should be mentioned - either under History or in Geography. See my note above. I am sure that there will be more news reports than the few I have listed.

Marshelec (talk) 02:59, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

LINZ have created a suburb and locality dataset to meet the demand for "something, anything" that can be used to assign a suburb (or locality) to any given grid reference - see info at https://www.linz.govt.nz/products-services/data/types-linz-data/suburbs-and-localities-data . Currently the LINZ definition is that area bounded by the Heathcote river, the Lyttelton rarilway and an erratic line roughly following and mostly west of Ensors Road. However a 1929 map of Christchurch https://geodatahub.library.auckland.ac.nz/public/maps/LINZ/NZMS/NZMS_016/jpg/NZMS016_Christchurch_6_1929_g1.jpg shows Opawa as being a much larger area which also includes much of what is now Waltham, which is not named on that map. Waltham is named on a map of 1951 https://geodatahub.library.auckland.ac.nz/public/maps/LINZ/NZMS/NZMS_017/jpg/NZMS017_Christchurch_1951.jpg but the park on Waltham Road is still called Opawa Park. This has changed to Waltham Park by 1954 https://geodatahub.library.auckland.ac.nz/public/maps/LINZ/NZMS/NZMS_017/jpg/NZMS017_Christchurch_1954.jpg and a quick count of mentions on Papers Past shows the two park names as having been interchangeable for many years, with Waltham Park becoming more popular by the late 1930s and Opawa Park practically disappearing during the early 1940s. Daveosaurus (talk) 11:13, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Nice maps of Christchurch. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:36, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I thoroughly recommend GeoDataHub if you're looking for good quality old maps of NZ. You need to be a bit familiar with how NZMS map sheets and series worked but once you've got that figured out you've got the whole country at your fingertips.Daveosaurus (talk) 11:08, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Bookmarked. It's similar to Canterbury Maps (which is openly licensed) - but that's only restricted to Canterbury. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Opawa Children's Library

There used to be a Children's library by the river that has long since gone. It was near the bridge near Butler St. It was small and a fairly basic structure but something of a community feature.

I found a couple of sources with content about a Children's Library in Opawa. It is not clear if these are actually referring to the same building. Can anyone clarify ? The photo in the Newsline piece clearly shows the river immediately behind. See: Papers Past 1965 [34], and Newsline (CCC) Sep 2022 [35]._Marshelec (talk) 05:39, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Look what I found: HERITAGE ASSESSMENT – STATEMENT OF SIGNIFICANCE, FORMER NEW BRIGHTON VOLUNTEER FIRE BRIGADE. SOCIAL HALL/ OPAWA CHILDREN’S LIBRARY AND SETTING -2 LOUISSON PLACE, CHRISTCHURCH [36]. It has a draft watermark but perhaps it can still be cited ?. There is excellent content in this report. The date of the relocation from New Brighton to Opawa matches the complaint in the newspaper from the Paper's Past citation above. Fascinating that a temporary (and relocated) building lasted from 1965 to 2020 :) Marshelec (talk) 05:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Good find Marshelec. I will bookmark the link and use it for these types of purposes. Roger 8 Roger might be able to clarify. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 06:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

@Alexeyevitch@Roger 8 Roger This is a great little story :). A part of a surplus building that was previously the New Brighton Fire Station, was relocated and repurposed as a "temporary" Opawa children's library in 1965. It stood the test of time, and the irony is that in the 2011 earthquake, the main library was badly damaged. Library services were down-scaled and then combined in the Children's library building - a "temporary" building that provided service for 55 years !! I have found a listing of a CCC cancelled request for tender for relocation of the building. Not 100% sure of the current status, but I think that children's library services are now finally integrated into the main Opawa library.Marshelec (talk) 06:53, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

I'll add some content on the children's library. It's significant for the community and its establishment date could be mentioned.

I've added an image (map) of Opawa in the 1890s. You can see the the suburb's main roads: Opawa Road and Ensors Road in the image and some of the 'large' sections. Pretty good and encyclopedic IMO. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 07:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you user:Marshelec, an interesting wee story - that is indeed the library. I'm surprised it lasted so long till 2020. I think that was because of its simple wooden structure with simple foundations - meaning there wasn't much that the earthquakes could damage. On this topic, childeren's libraries were a feature of Christchurch, and still are in some areas I think. There was one in St Martins too and also one in Upper Riccarton and I assume elsewhere as well. I'm not sure of their current status but I think they are being fased out due to being uneconomic, That is similar to small local swimming pools, including those in schools. There was one in Thorrington School for example that has now gone, and one at Rangi Ruru. Doubtless there were many others elsewhere. People may forget that after the earthquakes normal social facitities were gone - everything was destroyed or damaged or red stickered. There was an effort made to maintain as much of normal social life as possible - destroyed cafes were replaced by caravan cafes (still one in Sydenham) and the CCC tried to maintain a library service, with tepmorary libraries opening in places such as Linwood/Smith St and in the city - Manchester/Allen, and then in ?Petrborough. People now forget that for a long time normal social activity was severly compromised. Roger 8 Roger. (talk) 13:47, 16 July 2024 (UTC) ].

Hansen Park

Hansen Park is open space that occupies a significant portion of land in the southern part of Opawa, and warrants a mention in the article. For basic details see: [37]. The park was originally designated in the late 1950s on the site of a former rubbish dump [38], [39]. It was named after Dr D E Hansen, Patron of the Risingholme Centre.[40], [41], There was public controversy and opposition in 1963 when it was proposed that a new secondary school would be established on the site. There was another controversy in 1986 when it was proposed that the site be developed as a base for softball in Canterbury [42], [43]. Eventually a decision was reached in Nov 1987 to establish a softball centre at Cuthbert Green in Bromley instead [44]. Hansen Park has been used a temporary headquarters for mountain running events (Crater Rim Ultra in 2023) [45]. Also scheduled as the site for 2024 New Zealand Mountain Running Championships [46]. Hansen Park contains the clubrooms of the Port Hills Athletic Club [47]. There are two rugby fields and two football fields in the park.[48], [49]. In 2024, the park is being used for cricket, rugby and athletics, but also some other outdoor events.[50] I will see if I can find out anything more. Marshelec (talk) 05:09, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Y I have started to add content about this - more to do in the amenities section. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:43, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

In popular culture

I didn't expect to find much in popular culture that mentions Opawa, but this shows how wrong you can be. There is a work: "The Opawa Affair". [51]. Perhaps there is more ?_Marshelec (talk) 06:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Earthquake damage

I note that the source from Te Ara says under an Opawa heading that a supermarket was irreparably damaged.[52] However, I believe they got this wrong. It seems that it was actually the St Martins New World supermarket that was damaged (and subsequently demolished and rebuilt). See: [53]. Marshelec (talk) 05:33, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Removed. Merged content to the St. Martins article. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:54, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

State Highway 76

I suggest that some coverage be included of the development of the section of State Highway 76 through Opawa. This is relevant for the article because it is a major road transport route along the north-western boundary of Opawa. It also required the purchase of many properties along the route through Opawa. The development of the Brougham Street expressway, and its extension into, and through Opawa took place over a several decades and was built in stages. The completion of the expressway effectively bypassed Opawa Road as the main route from the city to Lyttelton and the Heathcote Valley and took heavy traffic away from Opawa Road and Ferry Road. (I note that the Brougham Street expressway was initially part of SH73, then later redesignated SH76 as part of the Christchurch Southern Motorway. I have not yet found a source about the dates of the change of highway designation or how this affects the section through Opawa). Here are some sources mentioning the development of the “Opawa expressway”:

• Early proposal (1967) [54],
• Controversy and legal challenges (1971) [55]
• Illustration (1978) [56],
• Mention (1986) [57]
• Final proposal (seems to be what was built) (1988); [58]

I haven't yet found a source for the completion of SH76 through Opawa, but will keep looking. _Marshelec (talk) 23:51, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

@Schwede66:. Are you able to provide any insights or other references that would help briefly describe the construction and impacts of the motorway through Opawa. Even the date of completion would be useful ?Marshelec (talk) 00:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok, let me throw a few items into a Google folder. This link gives edit access. Schwede66 01:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Nice. BTW, Canterbury Maps is openly licensed (see this). Almost all imagery is CC BY 4.0. (or 3.0.) Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:32, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Y Alexeyevitch^(talk) 01:09, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Brougham Street was still SH73 in 2006 - according to its own article, SH76 was gazetted in 2012. I think the NZ Gazette is on line now which might be of help. Daveosaurus (talk) 11:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Flood hazard in Opawa

The current statement Opawa is flood-prone suburb is too sweeping, and needs some review. There have been many instances of the Heathcote River flooding some streets and properties in Opawa, but large parts of the suburb are outside the flood hazard zone. I found this useful reference: [59] Zooming in to the Opawa area, it shows that the streets running alongside the Heathcote river, plus some other relatively small areas within the Opawa boundaries, are classified as being within the "flood management area". The majority of the suburb is not within the "flood management area". I also recommend reviewing the statement Initially Opawa was a low-lying area,... Other than ground level movements that occurred during the Christchurch earthquake, the level of the land has probably remained much the same. I doubt that any major civil works were undertaken to raise the level of the land. Instead, drainage works were probably undertaken in the area to make the land more suitable for building, but we would need citations for this. I will see what I can find out._Marshelec (talk) 02:03, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Opawa was a low-lying area is what: Ogilvie 2017, p. 187 states and I have removed it from the lede because it read awkwardly. I will add/improve content about this today. This article would benefit from this content to help its way to reaching GA quality in my opinion. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 02:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

All of Christchurch not on the Port Hills is low lying with certain pockets of land lower than the surrounding low land. The flooding problem is more to do with drainage, or lack of it.[60] The water table in winter in some areas can be just below the surface, meaning with any heavy rainfall the water has nowhere to go and sits above the surface (unless there is adequate drainage). I think the problem with the Heathcote, which floods in areas right along its length, not just in Opawa, is more one of poor drainage of the river rather than land being low lying. Not long ago the river was widened or deepened in some areas to facilitate drainage which had become even worse after the earthquakes due to land movement. Walk along the river, in Eastern Tce, or anywhere else, and you will see the older original houses raised and set back from the river, with large front gardens, to avoid flooding. As drainage improved those large areas of land were filled in by newer houses on the assumption they wouldn't be subject to flooding. This is a major topic for an article of its own. I think mention in a suburb article like Opawa or Beckenham should be kept short and simple but focus on poor drainage just as much as low lying land. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 03:58, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

@Roger 8 Roger Thanks, I agree that there is merit in a separate article about drainage in Christchurch, because it is of considerable importance to how the city developed. I had begun searching for sources about drainage, but got distracted, and only wrote brief content about early development of a pumped sewerage system. This source "Christchurch: Swamp to City" is very useful: [61], but a new article would need many more. I will try to get back to this. Or I would be happy to help out, if you are able to make a start._Marshelec (talk) 04:15, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

I will continue to edit this article and add a bit of content that Roger suggested, which will help it to reaching GA quality in my opinion. I also find this topic interesting. This YouTube video may be interesting to both of you: [62]. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 04:34, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

 Done, added a summary of noted flooding events in the geography section. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 08:53, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks _Marshelec, that is an excellent book by Wilson again. Some interesting photos and maps as well. Certainly the starting point of an article. Aynesley Tce on page 79. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:30, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Ok. I think it's on p. 76. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 09:41, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Opawa/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Alexeyevitch (talk · contribs) 05:45, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: TechnoSquirrel69 (talk · contribs) 05:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Nice to meet you, Alexeyevitch! I'm here from GARC circle 8; I'll be back with comments within a week. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:05, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Sure, not a problem. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:30, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

@TechnoSquirrel69. Content is near-finalized. Hopefully the comments will commence shortly. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 01:31, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Should be finalized now. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:44, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Lead

• "By the 1860s," feels a bit sudden for the third sentence. Maybe briefly mention that the locality was founded in the 1860s instead.
  • Should be less intense now.
• and its population largely included → with a population largely comprised of

   Done

• "and contains a light retail" is the second clause beginning with and in that sentence.

   Done

• "Various other names rendered the area" Seems like we're looking for a different word there.
  • It's is OK in my opinion. As the source also uses the word and I'm not sure what would be replaced there. Although, you may be right. UPDATE: I've changed it to "represented". If it reads awkwardly, we can always change it back to something else.

   Done

• "Its railway station ... since 1972." are not grammatical.

   Done

• Remove the two circular links in the paragraph.
  • I would appreciate if you could tell me more specifically.
• Linking "kindergartens" and "rugby fields" seems excessive to me.

   Done

History

• Link "Māori" and "Christchurch" on their first appearances in the body.

   Done

• "as far back to 1250 A.D." should be "as far back as 1250 A.D.", but I would prefer dialing it down to just "begins in 1250 A.D." in the spirit of avoiding editorializing.

   Done

• bird, have → bird have

   Done

• the coast. There → the coast, there

   Done

• settlements, in the area → settlements in the area

   Done

• Per MOS:WAW and MOS:SINGLE: It is a combination of 'Ō' which means a part of → It is a combination of ō which means 'a part of'. Similar changes for the rest of that sentence and for "(food-gathering place)" further down.

   Done

  • Is it OK now? I've removed double quotation marks and replaced it with singular.

   Done

• Why do some phrases use {{lang}} and not others? There seems to be an inconsistent application of the template among both proper and common nouns.
  • Some words of Māori origin do not need to be italicized in New Zealand English. E.g. sweet potato is written as kūmara or raupō does not need to be because it's common name in New Zealand English. Other uncommon words could be italicized.
    •  Done I've just used the template for words of Māori origin not common in New Zealand English.
• "(or Opaawaho)" What's the source for this other transliteration?
  • Removed. Although, I have seen this used in some archaic sources.
• Briefly gloss "kāinga".
  •  Done
• "resting place for Māori travelling" seems repetitive as we already know it was a Māori settlement. How about just "resting place for travellers"?
  •  Done Yes, that's better.

References

Citation numbers from this revision.

• Citation 5 needs a publisher.
  •  Done
• No need for all-caps in citations 7, 57, and 59.
  •  Done
• Citation 8 — linking to the definition of kāinga in the Oxford English Dictionary — is rather superfluous given that the word is linked to its corresponding article.
  •  Done. Removed.
• What makes the Christchurch City Libraries pages (too many citations to list) reliable? Who are the writers? Are they subject-matter experts or journalists?
  • All experiences I've had have Christchurch City Libraries have been positive. I check where they cite the content from at the bottom of the page, if that wasn't there, I would be skeptical about including it.

  I understand, but I'm afraid that isn't enough to satisfy the reliable sources guideline and thus criterion 2b. Considering how heavily the article relies on material from Christchurch City Libraries, this is something we will need to resolve before moving forward with the review. The marks of a reliable source in this context would be evidence that the pages in question were written by a subject-matter expert, an academic or journalist who then submitted it to a editorial review process, or that the material was published by a reputable publisher (usually reputable due to their editorial integrity). Failing that, I would need to see consensus in a discussion on the source that its contents are reliable. —TS

  I'll add secondary sources today and should be better than it currently is. I'll be back with (hopefully) better refs particularly in the 'landmarks' section. Alexeyevitch^(talk)

  UPDATE: I've replaced about half of the City Libraries refs and will finish the other half when I acquire: Mair, 1969 and Gillespie, 2007 (again). Keep the "community profile" refs since those are very helpful for the amenities section. What is concerning me at the momment is the reliability of sources in the "landmarks" section... those sources will be omitted or replaced by Mair, 1969 or Gillespie, 2007 in about a week's time.

• Citations 23, 24, 26, and 78 are duplicates, or close enough to it. I would highly recommend using named references to reduce redundancy and implementing the {{harvnb}} template to link the footnotes to the bibliography entries. Alternatively, using {{sfnm}} would solve both of those problems.
  •  Done That's very helpful User:TechnoSquirrel69. I wasn't aware of {{sfnm}}.
• Citations 29 and 84 claim access via ProQuest, but no link is provided.
  •  Done
• I would prefer adjusting citation 33 to use |work=Stuff and |publisher=The Press.
  •  Done
• Citation 58 already links to an archive so doesn't need the additional |archive-url=. I'd also appreciate a |via=Papers Past.
  •  Done
• Citations 81, 85, and 88 are bordering on being bare URLs. I would recommend fleshing them out to combat link rot.
  • It's typical for New Zealand articles to have those on templates redirecting to Education Counts.
• I have issues with the use of OpenStreetMap in citation 95. For one, the site is user-generated, by default calling into question its reliability; I have to object to it on principle. There's also the question of whether inclusion of information sourced directly from a map is receiving due weight.
  •  Fixed I've added a secondary source regarding its location alongside it.
• Similar feelings about citations 91, 94, and 106. Wikipedia does not include arbitrary data, and it's likely undue to mention the exact distance between places without an independent secondary source.
  • I'm unsure what it's like elsewhere but New Zealand articles tend to use this. I will now avoid/minimize this.
• What makes citation 105 (eurohockey.com) a reliable source?
  •  Fixed They've been there for years. I've added a source from The Press via ProQuest.
• I'd highly recommend adding an identifier, such as an ISBN or an OCLC number, to citation 116.
  •  Partly done Added URL.

Images

• Opawa Road (cropped) v.3.jpg, Opawa Rural Section Plan 157.png, Opawa Road Aerial circa 2024.png, Opawa Road bridge across Heathcote River, Risingholme 2024 (cropped).jpg, The Hollies, and Saint Mark's Church are appropriately licensed, tagged, and captioned. I commend you for your work creating or tracking down this media to illustrate the article.
• The Wikimedia Commons licensing policy requires that media asserted to be in the public domain must be eligible both in the country of origin and the United States (where the Wikimedia Foundation has its servers). A stagecoach in Cathedral Square, Opawa School circa 1920 (cropped).jpg, and Opawa Lawn Tennis Club.jpg have tags for New Zealand but not the US.
  • I believe it is anything published 1929 or earlier is public domain in the U.S. The school image is circa 1920 and the Lawn Tennis image was photographed circa 1932. The Photographer H. H. Clifford passed away in 1949 which is more than 70 years ago. I will attempt to correct the license.
    •  Fixed A new image is there now. License is verifiable.
• William Reeves does not mention its date of creation or publication, so I'm unable to check off the assertion that it's in the public domain.
  •  Done Removed and tweaked image.

Discussion

My apologies for the delay, Alexeyevitch! It's been an unusually busy weekend on my end, but I'm back to it. I didn't achieve my hope of wrapping up my comments tonight, but here are the ones I've got so far — more to come. Feel free to reply to my comments in line, and let me know if you have any questions. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:45, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I have a question on MOS:IMAGEREL is: or more relevant in the Education section?

According to MOS; Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative. They are often an important illustrative aid to understanding. When possible, find better images and improve captions instead of simply removing poor or inappropriate ones, especially on pages with few visuals. At the moment, I think it's the more recent one complies better with MOS. But I'll wait a bit before changing if you would like to say anything. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:23, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

And by the way, your comments have been really helpful. I'll bear MOS:WAW and MOS:SINGLE in mind when I'm editing these sort of articles.

Thanks, I'm glad that my feedback has been constructive for you! Both of the images you're considering appear appropriate for that section, so I don't have a preference between them. You also have the option of using both. By the way, as a matter of preference I've undone your striking of my comments and marked them as {{Done}} instead — it avoids the implpication that I have retracted my message for whatever reason. I hope you'll accept my apologies again for not coming back with more comments, as it's been unusually difficult for me to sit down get a longer editing session in. The end of the review is coming soon, I promise! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 04:38, 30 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks again for your patience, Alexeyevitch. I have a round of comments up concerning the references and images, and the completion of the prose review coming as soon as possible. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 05:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

@TechnoSquirrel69. Is it OK if you put the article on WP:GAN/I#HOLD when your comments are finalized. I'll be back here in 12 days for the review while I work on another project off-wiki. I'll still be online though. Just need some extra time. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 05:14, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

@Alexeyevitch: Sure thing! I think you've been quite the courtesy of patience over the last couple of weeks, and I would be happy to repay it. I'll put my last round of comments up and leave this on hold. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 17:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll be in touch when I've aquired the required book sources. Also, I hope you're not concerned worried about putting it on hold for a bit.

I'm focusing on other things outside of WP too. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 00:10, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Note: I'll be back in two weeks with three independent book sources which will replace most of the Council refs. :-) Alexeyevitch^(talk) 13:35, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

@Alexeyevitch: What's the status of your sourcing work? I'm still seeing references to the unreliable sources we discussed above in the article. I'm going to be rather busy at the end of the month and I'm looking to close out this review before then. Let me know either way. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 13:47, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I will need to go to the library this Thursday (which is tomorrow for me or prehaps Friday, but it's likely tomorrow). I actually intended to go the previous Saturday and Sunday but wasn't able to because of other commitments during the day. They will be replaced shortly. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 21:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

This is up to you to decide but I would recommend coming to a conclusion on Friday evening if the unreliable sources have been omited or replaced by independent book sources. Homes of the pioneers is quite hard to get a hold of but I'm confident it would be there. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 22:23, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what decision you're asking me to make at this point — as we discussed, the Christchurch library sources have uncertain reliability and would be better off replaced with quality secondary sources, which I thought we were in agreement on. If we are, then good luck with your research at the library, and send a ping my way once you're done! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 22:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. I will be back as soon as possible with Homes of pioneers (1969). I'm aware of Place Names of Banks Peninsula and the Port Hills, this book has no content about the landmarks. I can possibly substitute it with a local history book of some sort which does. Talk soon! Alexeyevitch^(talk) 23:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

@TechnoSquirrel69. I have removed almost all the uncertain citations but I kept one which mentions the Christchurch earthquake. I also felt as the section was too big so I trimmed it to make it concise but not overwhelming. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 23:38, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. I'll be back this weekend with my final round of comments! —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 14:42, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Added image of Risingholme Park. I think it's better to have an image of this rather than a generic corner store. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 03:00, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Final comments

I am quite disappointed that I have to take this decision after the time we've spent on this review, but on a final look through this article there are simply too many issues that cropped up; I am failing this nomination as a result. As I started to find these in the middle of my prose review, I was not able to complete that part. The most concerning of these issues is the multiple cases of close paraphrasing; please see the table below for a few examples.

Source	Source text	Article text
Simpson & Williams	No small part has been played in the development of Christchurch by the brick and clay industry, which has always had its home in Opawa and the s urrounding hills.	Opawa was home to the brickmaking and clay industries. Which contributed in the development of Christchurch and the industries always had its home in Opawa and its surrounding hills.
Morrison 1948	Until 1885 there were no shops in the district, and as late as 1890 the only regular means of conveyance, the stage coach, ran in deep ruts along the Opawa Road.	There were no shops in the district until 1885. Up until the 1890s, the only regular means of transportation, was a stagecoach which ran along Opawa Road.
City Council 2014	This area is serviced by Opawa Community Library, St Martins Library, Opawa Children's Library [...] All of these suffered substantial earthquake-related damage, however, the South Library and Service Centre and Opawa Children's Library have been able to re-open and operate.	Opawa is served by the Opawa Library and Opawa Children's Library. These buildings suffered substantial earthquake-related damages. The Opawa Children's Library was able to reopen and operate ...

Some of these could be asserted to be in the public domain due to their age, some not, and either way this is not the standard of writing expected of a good article. I had other issues with the prose as well: there are a lot of incomplete sentences, such as "with a roll of 343 students. And is located on Ford Road." or "Joshua Strange Williams gave his address as 'Opawa Farm'. A 50 acre property in the locale."

Many places in the prose read awkwardly or unnecessarily repeat information, such as "It is flood-prone suburb. Because of its location next to the river, the area has subsequently been flooded numerous times" or "As Woolston emerged as an industrial hub nearby, the population of Opawa grew rapidly, transforming it into an upscale and fashionable residential area. Additionally, it also grew as people left Woolston's industrial areas".

The level of detail explored varies significantly. § Amenities features a lot of discussion of various rather minor businesses and the distances between them — which, as I mentioned before, is unhelpful to readers and worryingly sourced to OpenStreetMap and online distance calculators. On the other hand, I found several pages in Wilson 2005 discussing Christchurch's tram system which is reflected in just a single short sentence (!) in § European settlement. There were other places I felt the level of detail was disproportionately high, and though the good article criteria don't ask for the "comprehensiveness" of featured articles, aspects of the subject need to receive weight in the article proportional to their discussion in sources.

Alexeyevitch, I truly respect the depth of research that you've put into this project and sincerely appreciate the good work that you've already done, but there is quite a ways to go before this can be a good article. I hope you'll internalize my feedback here, scan the article from top to bottom for these issues, and come back to the next nomination stronger than ever. I might also recommend requesting assistance from the Guild of Copy Editors to address the prose issues. Please let me know if you have any follow-up questions. —TechnoSquirrel69 (sigh) 06:59, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Governance

Copied from my talk page - it fits better here..About yesterday's edits, this below might help. You should have someone explain it if you don't get it. About city suburbs, there is a natural limit to how much you can put into an article before you start adding unnecessary clutter. You seem to have done that for Opawa by putting in anything at all that has a vague connection with Opawa. Quality is not the same as quantity. You probably could halve the size and double the quality of the article. My comments: Thank you for that change but, regarding only the first two sentences... 1/ Prior to 1916 implies the riding ended in 1916, (and is still not specific anyway - when prior to 1916? 1910? 1899? Better is to start with "In 1915..." because that is the year in the source when this meeting happened. 2/ The source does not say Opawa was a riding. Please read it again, carefully. Opawa was probably in a riding called the Opawa Riding, along with other settlements. That is all we can get from the source. 3/ The source refers to the Heathcote County (a defined area which included the Opawa Riding) - it doesn't mention the Heathcote district (what is the Heathcote district anyway?) 4/ CCC was the employer of the electrical engineer, that is the only reference to CCC. What you have written is quite different. 5/ More generally, this has got almost nothing to do with the governance of Opawa, certainly not without more detail to put the Opawa Riding in context. If anything, this belongs somewhere else - about utilities or power supply - but you will still have to put it in context (ie more information) otherwise better to leave it out altogether. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 21:33, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Opawa/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Alexeyevitch (talk · contribs) 03:12, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: DimensionalFusion (talk · contribs) 17:55, 6 October 2024 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Off the bat, article doesn't merit quickfail (no maintenance tags, reviewer has written 80% of article thus far). Looks interesting, I'll begin reviewing once I've read the whole article I will be referring to comments made in the first GA in determining any outstanding issues that may arise.

Review comments:

1. Article does not skew towards any particular point of view. 4 is passed
2. Article does not have any edit warring. 5 is passed
3. Images used are captioned appropriately and relevant to article content. No copyrighted images, so no fair use rationale. 6 is passed

Lead

Lead section chooses not to use citations, so citations in lead must be backed up later. Article in red, suggested change in green – not mandatory, just a suggestion for change

• It developed little during its early years in becoming a residential suburb. Seems ungramatical – perhaps something like It saw little development in its early years as it transitioned into a residential suburb.

 Done - A

• As Woolston emerged as an industrial hub nearby, Opawa was heavily urbanised, transforming it ... this seems clunky. Commas used in this sense of extra information should make sense gramatically when the commas are removed. Perhaps something similar to As Woolston emerged as an industrial hub nearby, Opawa was heavily urbanised. This transformed it ...

 Done Yes, that's better.

• comprised of bad phrasing. See WP:COMPRISEDOF

 Fixed Changed to consisting of.

• The suburb is largely residential, and lies mostly within a U-shaped bend of the Ōpāwaho / Heathcote River, that contains a light retail precinct centred on Opawa Road. Sentence could be reworked?

 Partly done - A

• It was incorporated in to the city area in 1916. Which city area?

 Fixed Christchurch City Area - A

• The suburb is home to two local sporting clubs, the Opawa Bowling Club and the Opawa Lawn Tennis Club. This lists two items so it should use a colon, like such: The suburb hosts two local sports clubs: the Opawa Bowling Club and the Opawa Lawn Tennis Club.

 Done - A

• Notable people with connections with the suburb include, politician William Pember Reeves, wartime women's labour administrator Noeline Baker, and one of New Zealand's most successful tennis players, Anthony Wilding. This is also a list, so should either use a colon or nothing: Notable individuals associated with the suburb include politician William Pember Reeves, wartime women's labour administrator Noeline Baker, and Anthony Wilding, one of New Zealand's most successful tennis players.

 Done - A

1. Article is sufficiently broad in covering the main aspects of the topic, passed 3a
2. References are acceptably formatted, passed 2a
3. No OR that I've seen, passed 2c

1a Prose check

• It also grew as people left Woolston's industrial areas including factory-workers and businesspeople who could not find homes in Woolston itself. Seems a bit clunky. Maybe something else like It also expanded as factory workers and businesspeople from Woolston's industrial areas relocated after being unable to find housing within Woolston itself.

 Done - A

• Opawa and its neighbouring suburb of Hillsborough were home to some brickmaking and clay industries, which did contribute in the development of Christchurch. Also seems clunky. which did contribute doesn't sound grammatical.

 Partly done - A

• Dates of repeated instances of significant flooding in the area include, August 1941, April 1962, and January 1980. This has a comma starting a list, which is ungrammatical. Perhaps you could either add a colon and embrace the list or remove it entirely, like this: Notable instances of significant flooding in the area occurred in August 1941, April 1962, and January 1980.

 Done - A

• Opawa contains a large number of landmarks and places of historical interest, known for their connection with some of the early European settlers in the area, among them, the Risingholme, a Victorian house which was built in 1864 by Mary and William Reeves. Perhaps reword this sentence

Not sure (hopefully) it's better now - A

• Opawa was incorporated in to the city area in October 1916. Repeats from the lead and again, which city area? Obviously it's Christchurch but that needs to be stated

 Done - A

• which is regarded as one of North Canterbury's oldest schools. Faulty phrasing - something cannot be "regarded" as a quality such as age. It can be one of North Canterbury's oldest schools

 Fixed - A

• the school's growth was influenced by the district which was on route via the Bridle Path from Christchurch to Lyttelton. Not clear what's trying to be said here

 Removed Better removed, not much connection, possibly unnecessary information - A

• In 1920, foundation of a new school at Opawa was laid. I think this is supposed to say the foundation

 Fixed - A

• At present time, Opawa School is a full-primary ... I think this was supposed to say either At the present time or At present,

 Fixed - A

• ...St Mark's School, a name it shares with St Mark's Anglican Church is located on Opawa Road. Needs rephrasing, perhaps a name it shares with St Mark's Anglican Church which is located on Opawa Road.

 Fixed - A

• Hansen Park, a recreational park in the suburb, is often a site of rugby, cricket and athletics. A bit clunky, perhaps reword to something like Hansen Park, a recreational area in the suburb, frequently hosts rugby, cricket, and athletics events.

 Fixed - A

• There are two rugby fields and two football fields in the park, and the clubrooms of the Port Hills Athletic Club. A bit clunky to list it in this manner. Perhaps something like The park features two rugby fields, two football fields, and houses the clubrooms of the Port Hills Athletic Club. would be better suited.

 Done That's better. - A

I can see that the prose needing copy-editing was a problem with the previous review, and that you've requested a copy-edit from GOCE. As-is, this probably wouldn't pass the criteria DimensionalFusion (talk · she/her) 08:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Attempting to apply MOS:LIST in § Landmarks. Should be better now (I think). Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:33, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Okay, I'll take another look at it DimensionalFusion (talk · she/her) 11:12, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

1b MoS

1. Article meets MoS for lead, facts stated there are backed up by corresponding text in the article and reliable sources.
2. Article meets MoS for layout
3. MoS for fiction does not apply here
4. I can't see any violations of WtW, so article meets MoS in that regard
5. Article does not meet MoS for list incorporation as whilst some lists are embedded inline, others are not clear that they are lists. May be fixed if issues in 1a are addressed
6. Now passed following improvements made

3b Focus

1. Article is somewhat focused. On the one hand, it does remain on the topic of the suburb, but on the other hand it does cover various somewhat irrelevant factors. For example, in the education section it starts listing the roll of all the students, and I just can't see how this is relevant, as well as requiring lots of time to update to be the most recent DimensionalFusion (talk · she/her) 10:15, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

   This is standard for NZ articles (e.g. see Māngere Bridge (suburb) (and this). Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:17, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

   I'd also like to note that the demographics template and linking Education Counts is also typical for NZ locality articles. I have removed quite a bit of needless detail (which is not standard) that I learned from a previous review. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 10:21, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

   I see. Would you happen to know why education counts are typical for NZ locality articles DimensionalFusion (talk · she/her) 11:03, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

   I would presume because it is affliated with Ministry of Education NZ. Also, Template:NZ school roll data updates regularly. Alexeyevitch^(talk) 11:08, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

2b 2d Copyright

• 2d. The previous review turned up some instances of close paraphrasing, and these have been rectified. Earwig shows little evidence of copyright violations beyond generic phrases that would not count. All that remains is to do a source spot-check DimensionalFusion (talk · she/her) 11:08, 9 October 2024 (UTC)
• 2b. Some of the sources were inaccessible to me, so I'll AGF on those. For those that could be accessed, they did give the information that was cited in the article. Passed

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.