Talk:Old Crow Medicine Show/Archive 1

Archive 1

tagged as "unencyclopedic"

The history section of this article reads like a Rolling Stone profile article. Better to summarize briefly and provide links to the various articles that contain this chatty, behind-the-music info, as interesting as it may be.--Dupea (talk) 18:15, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with this statement. Where are these quotes coming from? An article? A t.v. show? This reads a lot like a college essay and not like an encyclopedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.12.65 (talk) 04:36, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

This section reads like it came off of the OCMS website or a CD cover. That's what happens when agents and promoters write these "encyclopedia" articles. 63.167.255.153 (talk) 10:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Recent edits

Words like "legendary" and "venerable" included in text as crufty adjectives have no place on Wikipedia. Plus, its OK to paraphrase a long blurb from CMT about the band... picking off just the key point and incorporating it into encyclopedic prose. But you can't build an Wikipedia article out of cut/paste text. No article should. The removed text wasn't horrid. But needs to comply to WP:NPOV and other policies. Libs (talk) 13:38, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Professional review suggestion

As an editorial assistant at Crawdaddy!, and to comply with COI guidelines, I am not posting the link to this review of Old Crow Medicine Show's Tennessee Pusher. However, I would like to recommend it on its merits, and hope that an editor will find the time to examine the review and—if he or she sees fit—post it to the professional reviews section of the Tennessee Pusher page once it's created. I appreciate your time. Crawdaddy! (favorable) [1]
Mike harkin (talk) 21:51, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

History section needed

I added a sentence to the beginning paragraph to show when they started. I don't really know; I took that from the cassette album date. I think it is best if the intro says more than just genre, but is an overview, meaning beginning to end. And if no end then current status. "Based in TN" is current status. Lewis Carroll in Alice in Wonderland said, "It's best to begin in the beginning." So, how about first paragraph an overview then get into the meat in an orderly chron fashion after that. Kristinwt (talk) 23:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Prairie Home Companion

I wouldn't tie OCMS that closely to Prairie Home Companion. They've only played on there a handful of times to my knowledge. I would also say that in a general sense, OCMS is more popular than PHC, so its not like they need the publicity boost or whatever.

And I would agree with a previous poster that they arent from Nashville, rather based in Nashville.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.12.65 (talk) 04:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

More popular? Huh? On what planet? Prairie Home Companion has been around for over 30 years and has over 4 million listeners each week. The show can fill a major venue in any US city anytime. It has been the subject of a major motion picture. It kicks ass in a googlefight. Surely an appearance on PHC is a major boost for artists like OCMS. I think it was likely overemphasized before, but it might be worth mentioning in the article. -MrFizyx (talk) 01:38, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

"according to my knowledge" constitutes original research, no? Prairie Home Companion is on the radio every week, Old Crow Medicine Show is not. "its [sic] not like they need the publicity boost or whatever" Where do you think most of their audience first heard them? I'm not saying you're retarded, just that you haven't thought things through, perhaps due to lack of life experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.77.67 (talk) 05:39, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

A concise summary of their extensive appearances on PHC--making them something of a 'house band' on the show--including the two live satellite broadcasts they took part in, and maybe the Keillor quote claiming them to be one of the better groups that has appeared on the show (cited in the Ryman Auditorium press release for the 2010 New Year's show), might help. Artaxerxes (talk) 13:38, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation page

Moving disambiguation code here since it appears like it's no longer active/applicable . .

"

This page is about the American band ,their self-titled debut album. For Old Crow Medicine Show (album), see Old Crow Medicine Show/Archive 1 (disambiguation).

" Artaxerxes (talk) 15:04, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Old Crow is not an "old time string band"

Old Crow Medicine SHow is NOT an old time string band. They do not carry on the music of a passed-down tradition, such as The Carter Family. It would be more accurate to describe them as an Americana or folk-style group, which implies old tiime influences that are altered to contemporary tastes. Authentic old time music tends to be a more static tradition that is not radically altered over the generations. It is very sloppy to say that they are an "old time string band". It makes you wonder whether or not the editors who insist on this description aren't trying to manipulate the image of the band in order to give them a more legitamate "rural appeal". This is akin to describing Kenny G as playing old timey New Orleans Jazz. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.64.3 (talk) 05:44, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

By signing your discussion comments, others interested in this article can see that you . .

1. identify yourself only as an IP address, and
2. are (apparently) quite new to editing at Wikipedia

Your input to the article is valuable and very welcome, but (especially considering the above) your false assertions and assumptions (stated as accusations as to other editor's motives) are not. The group started out in the old-time tradition and has since broadened into other genres--which the lede and infobox (etc.) reflect well enough. I don't care to take the time right now to take apart each one of your assumptions in the above passage alone. Perhaps I, or some other editor, will get to it soon. Artaxerxes (talk) 19:15, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

First, I want to say that I'm sure that you are a reasonable person. "Reasonable" meaning willing to use "real reasons" to explain how OCMS is an "old time band". Certainly reasonable people don't just assert their "authority" as an "editor" to bully someone into having their way. I see that as you have a business degree, you are not an academically qualified person as to be an authority on old time.

I have given my reasons as to why Old Crow is certainly not an old time music band. Unless you are willing to take the time to give your reasons, I do not see why you feel validated to arbitrarily change the article. The people in Old Crow are from New England and Northern Virginia, not from areas of the country where old time music is organically passed down from generation to generation. I don't doubt that they might have played songs that are "old time", but old time music entails a style of music. Not just the selection of songs that are played.

I am not knocking "editors", I am specifically knocking on Empirecontact's motives. Would you please elaborate on what your conception of "old time" music is? And feel free to "pick apart my false assumptions". That would be truly democratic and consistent with the spirit of wikipedia. Not just using a bully pulpit to disregard sincere input for egotistical reasons. We are adults (at least I am), not 4th graders. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.244.78.75 (talk) 23:23, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

In your brief time with us you've shown yourself to be ignorant on . .

1. what qualifies as an old-time string band
2. the musical group in question, and
3. editing on Wikipedia

At least until you learn to stop questioning motives and qualifications of others--particularly without coming clean on your own in either case (what is this axe you have to grind? what do you know about the subject at hand?)--and, most importantly, until you learn how to keep yourself from attacking and name-calling--you might slow down enough to put matters into perspective. This is a longstanding article about a group that's been in existence more than a dozen years. This article has been viewed thousands upon thousands of times; the average is over 500 visits per day this month. Viewers have included casual readers, fervent fans, band members themselves, and not a small number of highly experienced (and concerned) Wikipedia editors. Every visitor has had the opportunity--as have you--to make (or request) a change. The classifying of the group as "old-time" has stood the test of time. What exactly is your authority in this area that you can now unilaterally change this? and in the very lede of the article? and expect to do so with no resistance from those with more experience than you? Please go and research what it means to be an old-time string band. Then apply all this creative energy you display to investigating in-depth the group in question. Consider treating others with respect. Then let's see how we can enhance the article. Thank you for your consideration. (Oh, and don't forget, please, to start signing your comments.) Artaxerxes (talk) 13:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Are you serious? This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. First of all, if I am so "ignorant" about what an old time string band is, then why don't you take the time to explain what it is? You have dodged this time and time again. I am starting to suspect that you have no idea what an "old time string band" is and that you have a lot of insecure pride if you are not willing to have a reasonable conversation on the matter.

Second, your reasoning that the "old time description of Old crow has stood the test of time" is a very fallacious reasoning as to why Old Crow ought to be considered old time. Just because something is currently the case, does not mean that it ought to remain being the case. This is a classic text-book example of an "is-ought fallacy".

Third, when you say that "Viewers have included casual readers, fervent fans, band members themselves, and not a small number of highly experienced (and concerned) Wikipedia editors", how do you have this knowledge that band members themselves and highly experienced editors have been on the site. You could only know this if you had some sort of personal connection with the band, such as being a marketing executive or something. It is part of Old Crow's image that they want to be "perceived" as carrying on the old time tradition, but any musicologist could tell you that this just is not the case.

P.S. I don't need to look up what old time music is because I have grown up playing that music my whole life. Any old time musician could tell you that Old Crow is not old time.

P.P.S. Why don't you quit dodging the issue and tell me what your conception of old time music is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.244.78.75 (talk) 15:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

FYI: I am not trying to provoke or engage in an edit war. I really just want to have my input sincerely engaged, instead of just hastily disregarded by someone whose only explicit reason for opposing my sincere and reason supporting input is by appeal to "authority". If someone disagrees with me, that is entirely okay I am not offended by simple disagreement. I I would be more than happy to engage in a cooperative, constructive conversation about what the conception of "old time music" entails and whether or not Old Crow adequately meets that conception. If some other description such as "Americana or folk music" better describes what Old Crow's music is, then it would seem to me that we should use it or any other genre classification in the lead which most adequately fits the type of music that Old Crow plays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.244.78.75 (talk) 01:25, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

I thought that the description in the lede of Old Crow -"Old Crow Medicine Show is a band based in Nashville, Tennessee."- is sort of general. So I propose we add on the words "Americana band" or "folk band", or something like that. Mountainman420 (talk) 09:09, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Americana better covers all the genres they perform now, though they started out with a strong emphasis on old-time. They definitely meet the definition of string band (which I myself questioned a while back and was rebuked upon rather soundly). Best to develop from proper sources (properly referenced) their musical style: 1) what they started with (types/ages of songs, instrumentation, what they said about their style, what reviewers said, etc.); 2) what they've moved to; and, what role they've played in the growth of this type of bands. That anyone anywhere with whatever motive might suggest that to call them 'old-time' is a promotional trick borne out of Nashville publicity firms shows how far we've come--and what this band did. At the time they launched it was by no means seen as a clear path to success in the music industry to be putting together a retro outfit that pulled form the earliest roots of American country music. They contributed mightily to the current popularity of such an approach. Artaxerxes (talk) 13:35, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Criticism

Old Crow Medicine Show has had enough impact that its Wikipedia presence should be something more than an advertising site for the band. One really ought to be able to wikipedia them and read material that is more nuanced and which critically appraises the strengths and weaknesses of such a big-name band. One ought to be able to find links to some of the various write-ups done on the band over the years without having to resort to the "talk" page.

Among these would be, for example, mine:

Tom Pickerell Mountain Courier November 2011

Old Crow aims primarily at a particular part of America youth culture in the upper South. As such, it plays a brand of Americana that relishes terms such as "old time" and "string band" but does not dwell overlong on what they mean. They are not aiming at true folk art (thank God) and their music and vocal styling are not more than superficially tied to the deep river of folk music of the Southern Appalachians. And yet they pay it tribute in every line of their lyrics. The boys don't frail on open-backed claw-hammer banjos any more than they play three-finger rolls at 90 miles a minute. I read an interview where one of them spoke of his years of animosity toward the mandolin. Instead, they feature a 6-string banjo tuned like a guitar, an unattested instrument that is cool in its way but which won't get one very far in old-time string band music. And that's OK with Old Crow. They are aiming at a generally youthful audience that is not especially interested in the techniques of the tradition but that is connected to it emotionally at multiple levels. Bands in the deeper South have sought to make music that links to their region and their past and have produced rumbling delta blues inflected "Southern Gothic" songs of swamps, sugar cane, and loose living. While the sound is very different and the themes in Southern Gothic often dwell on darker and grittier aspects of what is unkindly referred to as "white trash" culture, the overall musical template is roughly parallel.

The cultural background from which the band pulls, however superficially, in the Shenandoah Valley is not gothic or grotesque. The Valley's vegetation is not the lush carpet of the deep south nor is its history as polarized. Most farmers in the Shenandoah valley before the Civil War were German and Swiss farmers who came to the country without slaves and between large families, medium-sized farms, and hard work, rarely discovered a need for them as time went on. The Valley was and is a relatively egalitarian place without the harsh differences between rich and poor or between white and black of the deep South. Its people love their heritage of agriculture, old-time music, moonshine, clogging, dressing Amish even if you aren't, and being friendly. The Valley is America at its finest and the boys know it. This is not to say that the it doesn't have its social pathologies, a less than ideal education system, and those who capture a whiff of its promise and its essence in a bottle only to leave you disappointed as you drink more deeply.

Sure, Old Crow could be more than it is if it dipped more deeply into the tradition. But some of that dipping takes years and some of it can never be learned. I personally think they do fine with what they have. They continue to write great songs that long to be, and often are, steeped with a rich sense of place. They don't have the gravitas of Gillian Welch and David Rawlings but they do have a true regional identity. Gillian and David do old-timey stuff, also with variation and departure from the tradition but they aren't from the South. Allusions to the Civil War and to fighting in the Iraq War don't grace their songs they way they do Old Crow's. That said, they were right there with Old Crow at the beginning but have gone on to be much more focused as writers and musicians, and have achieved an greater level of maturity in their work, and, one suspects, their life.

Most bands get into the ring with outrageous amounts of energy and talent but they just don't deliver on their real potential. They never get the depth. Sometimes you get the sense that it's because they don't take any time out from playing and partying to read, travel, listen, or think. Few enough of us do, past the age of 30. Old Crow is probably OK with being just what they are. Personally, I would love them to be more but it's not me in that ring. I can sit and listen and study old time music and folkways with all the free time I have that comes from not being in a band. So I'll cut them some slack but probably hold off, for a few years, on buying too many albums. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.92.160.71 (talk) 01:36, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Seems like you could use this as a source--depending on where it now appears--perhaps sprinkling some of your review in the musical style section (and elsewhere). Artaxerxes (talk) 18:53, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Performance

A section on performance, perhaps to follow that on musical style, might include subsections on: their style of performance, busking, festival appearances, tours, and major venues/cities where they've appeared. Artaxerxes (talk) 23:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

From Nashville?

These guys are from New York, for the most part anyway. Right now, the first sentence of the article is misleading: "Old Crow Medicine Show is a Bluegrass group from Nashville, Tennessee." It would be just as accurate to say that they're "from" North Carolina, because they really got started (or "discovered") there. It might work to say, "Old Crow Medicine Show is a Bluegrass group based in Nashville, Tennessee." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Josh a brewer (talk • contribs) 22:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

Ketch and Critter grew up in Harrisonburg, Virginia. Gill Landry was born in Lake Charles, Louisiana. Just because their website says they 'met' in New York doesn't mean that's where they grew up. 71.62.191.75 (talk) 23:37, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Ketch and Critter both arrived in Harrisonburg at the age of twelve--Ketch by way of South Carolina (and before that St. Louis), Critter by way of Texas. Two original members came out of Upstate New York. Other members were pulled from here-and-there over time. It might be said the band was actually formed while busking across western Canada. With such a varied background, best to say where it is now based in the lede, leaving the rest to other sections of the article. Artaxerxes (talk) 19:09, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Chance McCoy "grew up in Harper's Ferry, West Virginia, though he was born in Washington DC." Artaxerxes (talk) 22:51, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

References

Films

Have sent query via e-mail to PBS regarding appearance of group on American Roots Music series—which does not appear on their list of artists. Can find nothing to support their appearance in what their bio at CMT calls "In the Valley Where Time Stands Still"—a film about the history of the Renfro Valley Barn Dance. Thankfully, the website for "Bluegrass Journey" lists them as participating artists. Artaxerxes (talk) 22:58, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

References

Media

Nice to have some media available through Wikimedia Commons, like . .

• image of "Wagon Wheel" gold record
• images of album covers, show posters, etc.
• audio recording: cover of "Wagon Wheel", sample, song in public domain, interview
• video recording: group playing, interview, trailer, sample
• group-related tattoo images

All have rights issues that would need to be understood, investigated, worked. Artaxerxes (talk) 20:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Country Song Section - Irrelevant?

It seems to me that the section of Secor's wife is out of place here. It might fit in an article about him, but is far too detailed for an article on the band. I will remove it if I don't hear any counter arguments. 99.43.32.160 (talk) 04:46, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

The section is relevant to group history in that it was a founding member's break-up with this girl that led to the creation of the group itself. This simply tells the rest of the story. And this part occurred while the group was actually living the whole old-time country musical group life up in the holler. Further, it is exactly this sort of country song story which generates the sort of country music the group creates. Artaxerxes (talk) 20:29, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Still seems a trivial connection. It is a good story, and a line or two might be appropriate, but most of the content doesn't seem relevant, particularly all the detail about her family and name. I won't change it, but would love to hear other opinions. 99.43.32.160 (talk)

The text from this section is now moved below (article way longer now). I'm thinking make this a footnote (once a footnote section is set up). (Another would be that Miller's in C-ville is where Dave Matthews got his start.) Artaxerxes (talk) 14:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Together again

(text below removed from article)

Ketch met Lydia Peelle, winner of the O. Henry Award and Whiting Award for her short stories, freshman year at Phillips Exeter Academy in New Hampshire. They later moved to Ithaca, New York together—where she attended Cornell and he Ithaca College. It was her breaking up with him in 1998 that led to the creation of Old Crow.

She later had a change of heart, but "honestly thought (she would) never see him again." Shortly after graduating from Cornell, she read in the newspaper about an old widower who visited his wife's grave daily. "Something about that true love and devotion hit" her and she "thought of Ketch." Getting his address from his parents, she boarded a train the next morning, landing in Butler, Tennessee at 2 a.m. "Secor and his band were living in a tiny cabin in the woods" in this "freckle of a town near the North Carolina border." Once she knocked on the front door and Secor opened it, "it was like (they) had never left each other."

"She was young, but she was always in love with him. It just took her time to realize that."

— Deborah Schoeneman, college friend

Ketch Secor and Lydia Peelle were married in 2001. Peelle is named for her great-great-aunt Lydia Maria Child, the novelist, journalist, teacher, and abolitionist who authored the poem "Over the River and through the Woods" (later sung as a Thanksgiving song). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artaxerxes (talk • contribs) 12:57, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

References

New Article

Ketch needs his own page. It's inappropriate to have personal information on the band's page (see "Personal" under the History section) when it could easily be on his own page. Señorsnazzypants (talk) 01:29, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

This would certainly make it easier to justify all the quotes by him (and the many more that might be included). Artaxerxes (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

Moving a Secor quote box here:

"Well, we started seeing tattoos on people of our songs. Lyrics or imagery from the band. Then we definitely knew."

Ketch Secor

Artaxerxes (talk) 14:03, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Moving Secor joke here:

• As Secor jokes: "We were sleeping in potato fields before it was cool to sleep in potato fields."

Artaxerxes (talk) 23:27, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Moving Secor quote here:

• As Secor recalls: "We did that as a band. This is stuff that Roy Acuff's buddies did . . We loved it."

Artaxerxes (talk) 23:58, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Copying Secor quote box here (to be replaced in article with fresher material):

"I feel like when we play, people can feel the timelessness. They can feel that they're rooted in something. Like we're able to play for a collective feeling that's lost, that used to be a big part of everything."

Ketch Secor

Artaxerxes (talk) 21:55, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Moving commemoration here:

• As a part of Black History Month, Ketch Secor gave a talk and musical demonstration entitled "Black Tennesseans and Old-Time Music" at the Nashville Public Library, Hadley Park Branch, February 4, 2012 during which he explored "the rich African-American musical traditions of (Tennessee) from the time of slavery up to the present."

(Ketch only; not musical performance; light reference) Artaxerxes (talk) 13:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Band Promotional

I'm sorry, but does anyone else think that this article reads like a biased, band promotional instead of a neutral encyclopedia article? I think that the promotional-like content needs to be scrapped. I think that this article needs to be flagged for being biased and un-encyclopedic.Does anyone else concur? 72.174.6.46 (talk) 00:30, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

I think that Empirecontact should be applauded for her/his contribution to this article. However, I feel that this user is trying to "own" the article by discouraging collaboration that helps improve this article by making it more objective, and less like a promotional article. I don't have anything against OCMS, but I think that if Empirecontact wants to write a promotional piece, then this should be done outside of wikipedia. If my observation isn't enough, look at the ratings of this article. Readers perceive it as being heavily biased and non-objective. This really needs to be addressed if this article is going to have the pretension of being an encyclopedia-quality article. 72.174.6.46 (talk) 00:01, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Material deleted by an IP address . .

In his review of Carry Me Back (2012), Nick Coleman of the London-based newspaper The Independent says of the group: "they bestride the Americana world like a colossus, each leg planted on the opposing shores of authenticity and commercial appeal."

A rather acerbic comment from an English reviewer, who would not seem to have a dog in this hunt (but, with consideration of his entire review, might in fact agree with this IP address). Artaxerxes (talk) 13:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Further material deleted by this IP address (restored once) . .

In the "historic path of Americana music" Old Crow helps hand the tradition from such acts as Emmylou Harris and Gillian Welch on to groups like Avett Brothers and Mumford & Sons, being "the old meeting the new"—old-time string band music fueled by punk rock energy—contributing to a "revival" with "acoustic punk bands all over the place." On a "mission of punk-fueled picking and singing," groups like Old Crow "seem to have the energy of a punk band, but instead of pure metal, you get thrashing banjo and high-octane fiddle runs."

. . a link in the chain established in the article, with properly-referenced sources, who are not promoters of the band. Half of the comments relate to other acts. Promotional material does not generally include proper references, nor does it find its most promising material from non-biased reviewers. It is the proper place of an encyclopedic article to help tell the history of a genre of music and how a particular act fits in. If this has not been established properly in the article itself, or the sources are questionable, this is what should be addressed first. Perhaps IP address would like to take the time to review the article carefuly, considering sources used to build its content, then prepare text of his own that might bolster the lede (to meet Wikipedia policies and guidelines), text that would better meet his standards. Artaxerxes (talk) 13:41, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

I find it curious how you automatically assume I am a man ("his standards"). Also, I was reading your prior comments on the talk page where you mentioned that you knew that the band members have read this wikipedia entry. The question I ask is how do you know that members of Old Crow have viewed this site and gave approval? It makes me wonder if you have some sort of personal connection with the band. If this is so, then I think that you need to go back and read the wikipedia policy about neutrality.Especially if you don't want to come off as being biased or having ulterior motives. 72.174.6.46 (talk) 08:04, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

References

Needs confirmation

• The group appeared at the inaugural 2002 Bonnaroo Music and Arts Festival—which Rolling Stone magazine named "Best Festival" in 2008—and have returned in 2005, 2007, and 2011.

The festival site has been changed, previous performer pages now "Forbidden access"; nowhere can RS encomium be found. Artaxerxes (talk) 17:43, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Nice to have the text for this article:

• Tutwiler, Greg (May/June 2009). "American Roots from the Soul". Americana Rhythm Music Magazine

Their site has a gap in its archived articles. Artaxerxes (talk) 14:04, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Computing a date for the big busking break in Boone from the www.oldcrowfans.com liner notes for Troubles Up and Down the Road, which says it happened on July 5, and the month MerleFest now occurs (April), with the first year they apparently appeared there (2000), yields a year of 1999. Ketch, in a November 30, 2012 interview in The Daily South, says it happened in 2000. Until the exact date can be confirmed, best to leave it vague. Artaxerxes (talk) 23:05, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

References

Notice

On a No Depression blog entry, posted by Easy Ed on July 23, 2010 at 3:39pm, and titled "how many cover versions of 'Wagon Wheel' are there?" we find . .

". . it sort of was started by Dylan as a chorus for a song that comes from an outtake of the soundtrack for the film Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. Along comes Ketch Secor of Old Crow Medicine Show who wrote verses for the song around Dylan's original chorus and transforms it from "Rock Me Mama" to "Wagon Wheel". (Thank you Wikipedia.)"

From across the pond, this interesting comment . .

"OCMS are some Virginian’s dream of a marketable bluegrass phenomenon."

— Nick Coleman, The Independent

Artaxerxes (talk) 13:24, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Also from across the pond, The Financial Times review of Carry Me Back this time . .

"The band’s Byzantine (or Soap Operatic) internal politics have seen Willie Watson, prominent here, shoved out of the boxcar, but the album benefits from his presence."

— David Honigmann, The Financial Times

I actually moved some of the Watson leaves stuff to the Personnel section because it felt a bit 'Soap Operatic'. Artaxerxes (talk) 14:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

References

Band name?

Any truth to the rumors that the band name is a reference to Old Crow bourbon? Often times whiskey used to be marketed as a medicine and Old Crow has been around since before the American Civil War. Anybody have any references for this?

Gr0ff (talk) 20:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Infobox image

Can't get it to go larger. Landscape doesn't work; image_size doesn't work.--Artaxerxes (talk) 17:10, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Reviews

Maybe this can be used somewhere . .

'The takeaway: Perhaps the most unabashed love connection all weekend between band and audience took place here, where the first notes of Old Crow Medicine Show's "Carry Me Back To Virginia" electrified a crowd eager to jig and shout, which the band's flawless and turbo-driven bluegrass clearly set out to do.'

— Richard Tafoya, SoundSpike

And this . .

"Old Crow Medicine Show sing and play their old-timey string instruments like they're from the Depression era, but their lyrics often suggest otherwise. Case in point: In 'Alabama High-Test,' the Nashville six-piece hoots about a drug dealer caught in pursuit while under the influence of 'Bama bud. "When you stop at a truck stop in Bowling Green at 4 a.m.," fiddle player Ketch Secor said, "you’re going to meet half the people on this record standing in line in front of you. If you don’t see them, you’ve got your eyes shut."

A take on what genre they are identified with . .

'As one of the preeminent acts in the modern Americana-bluegrass-mountain-music-what-have-you movement, Old Crow Medicine Show wears its musical influences on its collective plaid sleeve. Considering the wealth from which the Nashville band draws, that's not a bad thing.'

— Tricia Woolfenden, MLive

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Artaxerxes (talk • contribs) 17:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

References

Wagon Wheel

There is a great deal of detail here on WW, even thought here is a page for the song. Would it make sense to move most of that section to the song page? I would rather ask first before a significant edit.24.210.190.173 (talk) 19:02, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'd say that's exactly what's needed. Much of the detail about the history of the song, the words from Dylan's chorus, and that sort of thing should go to the song-specific page. --Artaxerxes (talk) 21:30, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Criticism from Michael Cryer of Phoenix New Times

See "This Band's Wikipedia Page Is Somehow Longer Than The Who's". Mostly, it criticizes the long length and the egotistical tone. Dcoetzee 00:17, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

I tried to set an example recently of how this article could be drastically slimmed down, here's what I did - Lopifalko (talk) 09:44, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Welch and Rawlings (moved from article)

"Dave and the members of our band seem to like the same kind of music, have the same heroes in the tapestry of the musical landscape, even enjoy the same stories about them. Both he and our band recognize where we fit into roots music, how we can add our little link in the chain that goes so far back. We all feel that our task is reassembly and reanimation, not duplication—to breathe life into this again, to make the ghosts walk around a little faster and larger."

Ketch Secor

Secor was first "made aware" of Gillian Welch and her longtime songwriting partner and guitarist David Rawlings, when they opened for David Grisman at a show in New Hampshire, while still in high school. Old Crow first made themselves known to the duo on "January the 12th of 2001, when we made our Grand Old Opry debut at the Ryman. They were listening to it on the radio." When they first met at the Station Inn in Nashville—where the group's "lively monthly shows" had become "a hot ticket among the young and in-the-know"—they "stayed up till dawn singing Stan Rogers songs and playing AC/DC licks." Three weeks later they were making a record. For Old Crow, Welch and Rawlings "were that rusted sign at the fork in the road showing OCMS just where it was headed."

Here the link in the chain of Appalachian old-time music tradition—down from the hills, fueled by punk, youthfully modernized—represented by Old Crow—hooked into the link in the chain forged by Welch — her traditional music credentials legitimized and her career boosted, together with the relaunch of the entire old-time/bluegrass music industry, by her participation on the O Brother, Where Art Thou (2000) soundtrack,—launched simultaneously with the group forming. As Frank Goodman of Puremusic.com saw the dynamic intersection of these forces . .

"Bluegrass got an incredible bump from the O Brother phenomenon, but Old Time and String Band music received one as well . . But, like Nickel Creek or Allison Krauss and Union Station, it really needed one good looking great sounding group to step up to the mic and kick everybody's ass. And here they are. The Old Crow Medicine Show."

Rawlings would later produce their first two studio albums Old Crow Medicine Show (or O.C.M.S, 2004) and Big Iron World (2006).

They made their national television debut on CMT's Grand Ole Opry Live in 2002. They sang and picked "the mountain reel 'Hard To Love'" in the 2003 Macy’s Thanksgiving Day Parade, "riding the new float from the Peeps marshmallow company." In April 2003 they recorded their LIVE album at the Station Inn in Nashville, where they'd developed an avid following with regular shows. "Most of the album is in the band’s high-energy, fiddle-driven, breakneck-speed twang mode," says Barry Mazor of No Depression, but the "handful of originals", including Secor’s "Can’t Get Right Blues" and Watson’s "Trouble That I’m In", are "in a party time jug-band blues mode." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artaxerxes (talk • contribs) 18:05, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Songwriting

(removed from article)

"'Fast and hard' was the key concept in those early years, as the bands built followings attracted by the novelty of banjos and fiddles attacked with thrashing energy. But energy is the cheapest commodity in pop music; anyone’s who’s young enough and hungry enough can play with a lot of energy. As a result, it was often hard to distinguish one 20-something string band from another. The groups quickly realized, if they were going to separate themselves from the crowd, they were going to have to come up with something different. That difference could have been virtuosity, but that seemed antithetical to the movement’s spirit. No, the difference would have to be songwriting."

Says Secor: "We sing songs that have teeth. This world, it bites.” Landry sees the bigger voice behind it:

"Songs that I would just write naturally generally come from more of a personal experience. It’s more anthemic with Old Crow . . It has a broader voice than any of its individual singers."

Secor reflects: "I feel a little bit like a conduit, as a folksong writer." Secor has also "matured into a master of the songwriting bait-and-switch":

". . 'Carry Me Back to Virginia' . . begins as a rousing evocation of young Confederate soldiers plunging into battle, but the later verses, with freezing survivors huddling against horse corpses, strip all the romanticism from war. 'We Don’t Grow Tobacco' begins as a lament about the cruel conditions on the tobacco farms but ends with a lament about unemployment when the farms close down. 'Bootlegger’s Boy' begins as a romanticized view of the moonshining life but ends in violence and regret. Time and again the band pulls the rug out from under our assumptions, but they always provide music of enough beauty and strength to catch us when we fall."

As to his take on the age-old soldier-dying-in-battle song in "Levi", Secor says: "It's not all that talk about all the eagles soaring. I don't like that kind of song, and I am out to undo that kind of song."

As Secor puts it:

"Archetypical tales from millennia ago talk about the same things that we do today — love, murder, politics, war, and food, talkin’ about harvest and a lean times as well and work. So if you can sing about those things, you can make it present."

--Artaxerxes (talk) 16:11, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Cite errors

@Empirecontact: - Thanks for editing the article down substantially (roughly a third). Unfortunately, in doing so, some sources got deleted, and there are now cite errors for the six following named references: Mazor, Paste, Dawson, Dearmore, Hight, and Kersey

You can find those citations in the last version prior to your edits. Thanks again for all your work on this article. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 02:58, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Carry Me Back (2012)

(removed from article)

'ATO is based in New York City and distributes through RED Distribution, Sony Music's independent-distribution arm . . The song with "such a pleasurable melody and such discomfiting politics that it has fascinated Secor since he was a kid in Virginia" led him to write “Carry Me Back to Virginia,” for the new album. As Secor reveals:

"That song came from a story I was told as a kid. The Confederates ran out of men, so they got 16-year-old boys from VMI, just kids, to march up to New Market, Virginia. I imagine their pride and valor as they marched up that hill and their shock as they heard the screams of the horses in the smoke. I wanted to surprise the listener the same way, so I started off by extolling the virtue of war, then drawing off all that glory till the truth was revealed."

"This record sounds like we would've if we were any good 14 years ago."

As a blog critic puts it: "OCMS aren't simply repeating or rehashing the past. They're adding to and expanding upon a musical genre that remains vital and relevant."--Artaxerxes (talk) 19:31, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Busking

(removed from article)

"I learned a lot about making music on the street corner, because we just played there so much. It was a great place to get started. One of the reasons that I played the kind of music that I played is that the street was so inviting to a fiddler. You almost felt like you were onstage, being a fiddler on the street... And there's just something about playing acoustic music as loud as you can and using your energy and excitement to get people to stop and to form a little horseshoe around you."

It was their first extended trip together, the Trans Canada Highway Tour in 1998, that originally defined the group as they "busked their buns off for the folks at the Farmers Market in Ottawa and the Fork's Market in Winnipeg." It might be said "if it weren't for music fans in Ladysmith, British Columbia and Wawa, Ontario there might not be an Old Crow Medicine Show." Their experiences in Wawa actually inspired their first record "Greetings from Wawa". At one point the band was making almost seven hundred dollars a day busking. As Secor explains: "We lived like KINGS in Ottawa! We all had girlfriends and thought we were going to live there." One fateful afternoon, while busking in front of Boone Drug in downtown Boone, North Carolina "a middle-aged woman stopped to listen." Leaving, she said "she wanted to bring her father over to hear them." She returned with Doc Watson, blind. They "struck up 'Oh My Little Darling,' a well-known old-time song they thought Doc would like." Watson said: "Boys, that was some of the most authentic old-time music I've heard in a long while. You almost got me crying." He asked them to play at Merlefest, "a four-day festival held every year at Wilkes Community College in honor of Watson's late son and collaborator Merle, who died in a tractor accident." This big break led the group to Nashville and on to major success.

They remain committed to busking as a way to stay connected to the people they're trying to reach.

--Artaxerxes (talk) 19:41, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

References

"Wagon Wheel"

(removed from article)

The song has been covered by an increasing number of acts since its release in 2004, including versions by Little Feat, Mumford & Sons, and Against Me!. Singer-songwriters Tyler Hilton and Dion Roy, along with country duo Dakota and Will, performed the song together throughout their 2012 tour. Former Hootie and the Blowfish singer, Darius Rucker, joined Old Crow at the Grand Ole Opry July 6, 2012 "for a special rendition of ‘Wagon Wheel.’" He covers the song, as a duet with Lady Antebellum, on his True Believers album.

Secor's "just glad to have a couple pen strokes on the corner of the master’s canvas."--Artaxerxes (talk) 21:30, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Size of article

Does it matter the size of the article, as long as there is citations for what is said? If it was a Swedish, Japanese, or any non-American band, would anyone care how long it is? And isn't it subjective what constitutes an article of merit. For example. should the article on World War Two be longer than the article on the Beatles, the country of China be longer than South Sudan, Walmart longer than Old Crow Medicine Show? If it needs to rewritten to be more "encyclopedic" (this is subjective also), then okay. But what does it matter how many words? Wikieditor101 (talk) 07:03, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Ithaca

More on what they got musically from their time in Ithaca, New York: "Crow Medicine Show returns to old stomping grounds".--Artaxerxes (talk) 16:48, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Impact

(removed from article)

"The music doesn’t need saving because it’s a renewable source. It keeps coming back whether you sit there and cultivate it or not. That’s the power of the American song. It’s so ingrained into our culture that we could have a whole generation of nothing but Taylor Swift and Britney Spears, and banjo music and harmony music would still come up year after year . . that’s how powerful this stuff is. You can’t undo it. You can’t unteach it. You can’t cover it up . . But we do need to apply it to this time, and I think our job in Old Crow Medicine Show is to make it relevant right now, to find a way to apply American folk music tradition to the current headlines and to current readership."

Ketch Secor

"I think we were a bit ahead of the curve," Fuqua adds.

Secor concurs: "Those boys took the message and ran with it."

Graham Sherrill, co-founder of Westbound Rangers, remembers:

"When I was in high school in Apex, North Carolina I went to a travelling Grand Ole Opry tour that featured Ricky Skaggs and some others I knew. But what I really remember is seeing Old Crow Medicine Show for the first time that night. Old Crow was playing around a single microphone and had the whole crowd in the palm of their hand . . They played 'C.C. Rider' and I remember thinking, 'Man, I gotta get in a band like this!'"

". . bluegrass and folk bands are more popular than ever, even spinning off weird amalgamations like punk-bluegrass and pop-folk. Part of that is no doubt due to bands like Old Crow."

Elizabeth Pandolfi, Charleston City Paper

Kurt Loewen, guitarist for "the mostly acoustic" Tequila Mockingbird Orchestra, a group that's "clearly cutting-edge in its musical ancientness" concurs:

"The Rolling Stones were crazy about the blues of earlier decades, because it was old but new. That’s why Mumford & Sons and Old Crow Medicine Show can be successful — because they’re the old meeting the new. That has allowed us to do this kind of music. Maybe we couldn’t have tried making a living at acoustic music 10 years ago, but there’s an absolute acoustic revival going on — especially in America. You go to the Pacific Northwest, and there are acoustic punk bands all over the place."

Whiskey Shivers from Austin, Texas, a quintet that brings "its ragged harmonies and hard-driving rhythms with it" on its "mission of punk-fueled picking and singing," shows the "unorthodox, youth-charged, string band movement of Appalachia (think Old Crow Medicine Show or the Hackensaw Boys) has spread well to the west and south," according to one music reviewer. Groups like these "seem to have the energy of a punk band, but instead of pure metal, you get thrashing banjo and high-octane fiddle runs."

"This fellow in town, Jerry Brown, once said, 'You can put a banjo in a 40-piece orchestra and people will still call it a folk band.' People are still going to ask anybody with a mandolin and a cello to play 'Wagon Wheel'."

— Andrew Marlin, Mandolin Orange

"The first day of this year's New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival culminated in back-to-back sets by West London's Mumford & Sons and North Carolina's The Avett Brothers before a crowd more than 20,000 strong. Here was conclusive proof, as if it were needed, that a new wave of young string bands has broken out of the underground into genuine stardom. These two bands, which performed together with Bob Dylan on this year's Grammy Awards telecast, have shown that young people can respond in large numbers to the combination of fiddles, acoustic guitars and doghouse bass played with the same energy as punk rock."

— Geoffrey Himes, NPR

--Artaxerxes (talk) 17:27, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Another group influenced by band (from Country Weekly 4.9.2014):

'One of Mason Porter’s influences, Old Crow Medicine Show, drew a similar comparison when Old Crow leader Ketch Secor heard Mason Porter’s 2008 debut EP. Joe passed the band a CD following an Old Crow gig in Philly.

“Ketch wrote us and said it reminded him of Workingman’s Dead,” Joe says of the Grateful Dead’s 1970 release. “I was kind of blown away.”

Along with the Dead, the band cites Doc Watson, Mississippi John Hurt and especially Bob Dylan as inspirations. “If you’re arguing about what you’re going to listen to in the van, Bob Dylan has something that everybody digs,” Joe says, laughing.'

--Artaxerxes (talk) 19:21, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

Another musical act influenced by Old Crow:

Howlin’ Brothers take cues from its musical inspirations The Weary Boys, Old Crow Medicine Show to John Hartford. Green believes these bands are doing “something special” with their singing, songwriting and performing live shows that are “truly great”.

--Artaxerxes 16:44, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

References

New album

Wall Street Journal blog mention of new song on album.--Artaxerxes 16:14, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

References

Impact

Moving content from quote box here (to be replaced by newer material):

"One thing that's exciting to me, during the 14 years that we have been making music together, we have seen a tremendous growth and awareness of our kind of music -- American roots music. It's an exciting time as a songwriter to have something to say and a growing audience of listeners. I don't think there has been a better time to blow a harmonica in America since Roy Acuff joined the Opry. To me the credit is due to a generation previous to us."

— Ketch Secor

Artaxerxes (talk) 21:54, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Moving this edit here: Norah Jones covered "Take Em Away" on the 9-11 telethon.

• Unreferenced (and I can't find anything on it)
• If it's a notable enough event and cover, maybe it could go in the distinctions section
• Would be nice to have some non-'Wagon Wheel' cover action

--Artaxerxes (talk) 17:33, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Such is Old Crow’s magic. They make brand-new songs sound like traditionals and traditionals sound like songs you’ve never heard before. Every album has something you can’t wait to hear live, even if a new song sounds a lot like an old song. The Lumineers might land a hit with the greatest song they ever wrote as part of one nine-song release, and Mumford might have earned themselves a spot on that Grammy show thanks to two releases in six years, but Old Crow is the standard the string-band revolution should be judged by, and they aren’t nearly done making great songs. Not nearly.

— The Portland Phoenix

--Artaxerxes 20:38, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

References

History

(removed from article)

"Performing locally, the young band earned the respect of their local old-time heroes and gained a following, appearing weekly at the Rongovian Embassy with Richie Stearns and annually at the Finger Lakes GrassRoots Festival of Music and Dance in Trumansburg, New York."--Artaxerxes (talk) 17:41, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

"It was integral to what I became, to wanting to start Old Crow Medicine Show, to bring that old-time music to the fore . . I saw (Acadian stars) 1755, and heard them do a great song, Le Monde a Bien Change . . . When I listen to 1755 . . there's a definite connection. There's a pan-national movement to it . . The cause we share is trying desperately to stay connected to something. Let's pass along folklore, let's pass along tradition. Let's be North American."

--Artaxerxes (talk) 17:46, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

'When former Route 11 Boys bandmate Robert St. Ours met Rob Bullington, Tom Peloso, and David Sickmen in August 1999 at Miller's restaurant in Charlottesville to watch newly-formed Old Crow perform there, the four decided to form a new group together, what would become The Hackensaw Boys—who also develop its sound busking on the streets, but those of Virginia. The three St. Ours brothers who'd originated the Route 11 Boys in Harrisonburg all contributed to the self-produced album Greetings from Wawa (2000). Phillip St. Ours would share washboard duties between Hackensaw and Old Crow in the early years.'--Artaxerxes (talk) 17:51, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

'Named for The Felice Brothers song "The Big Surprise" (opening track from their Yonder Is the Clock album on Team Love Records) . . Having "performed and recorded since 1996 as the acoustic duo known as 'Gillian Welch,' with Rawlings on guitar, on this tour he would "carry the lead vocals" with Welch playing rhythm guitar as "a member of the band." "It’s a lot like the Gillian Welch show," Rawlings joked "but with a worse lead singer."

"All of us have a firm belief that rock ’n’ roll predated Elvis. We all have our feet firmly planted in the past, if different periods of the past, and that ­variety is what’s going to be great about this. I tend to go for more of a ragtime sort of thing. You’ve got a great Carolina style string band in the Old Crow. The David ­Rawlings Machine, the band with David and Gillian Welch, is not all that old timey—and there’s the Felice Brothers, who are rockers still chasing the ghost of (The Band’s) ‘Big Pink’ around ­Woodstock."

David Rawlings

The tour continued the tradition of the Sweet Harmony Traveling Revue "which followed a similar path five years" previously with "core headliners on that package" being: Emmylou Harris, Patty Griffin, and Welch—but with "a fundamentally different character". As Welch "observed between songs" at New York's Beacon Theatre show: "Did you notice there’s an awful lot of dude energy up here? I’m doing everything in my power to counterbalance it." As Secor framed it:

"There are a lot of renegade old-time music bands out there, but we feel a kindred feeling with this entourage; it definitely feels like this is our musical family. And if there is a ‘scene’ around the music we play, these artists make up the better part of it."

Regarded as "a roots-music extravaganza, mak(ing) rollicking sport of camaraderie", the tour was designed to generate unexpected results:

"Shows will be composed of two 90-minute sets broken up by an intermission. In a free form ramshackle flow the bands and artists will share the stage, taking part in each other’s songs, resurrecting old standards, and playing newly written collaborative material as they go. Each evening is sure to be a unique experience as they all put their many combined years of musicianship and knowledge of song-craft and American music into play for these sessions."

"What happens will be a big surprise to us as well; that’s gonna be part of the fun,” as Secor stated. Earle was backed during the tour by the harmonica- and mandolin-playing of Cory Younts, who joined Old Crow within months on their "western tour" while Earle was on tour in Australia.'--Artaxerxes (talk) 18:27, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

'Secor told American Songwriter that "It’s like we left all our baggage at home and just brought our instruments," often writing new songs while on the train. "We were just on these old rattling rails. It was a railroad odyssey that would have made Woody and Doc tip their hats and blow their whistles," he says.'--Artaxerxes (talk) 18:34, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

'Essentially "everyone took about a year off from the band." Perhaps a breaking point had been reached:

"Exhaustion from three years on the road, fighting and creative differences was a salient signpost to premature oblivion."

— Dave Dawson, NU Country TV

While away from the band he "managed to get three-quarters of the way to a bachelor’s degree" in English at Schreiner University in Kerrville, Texas—named for "Captain Charles Schreiner, a Texas Ranger and Confederate veteran who founded the school"—where he "couldn’t help but learn a thing or two from his classmates about the real-world impact of the music he’d helped create" . .

"I ran into quite a few people that knew the band, and especially knew ‘Wagon Wheel.’ I think more people know about the song ‘Wagon Wheel’ than about the band . . Actually, I found out the choir at Schreiner sang ‘Wagon Wheel.’"

'--Artaxerxes (talk) 18:46, 10 October 2013 (UTC) '

"The fact that he’d learned 'Wagon Wheel' meant a lot to us, because it meant we had reached the kind of person we had most wanted to reach: the kids our age who live in those mountains. It seems a little presumptuous to write about a person’s death, but that’s country music. I didn’t know him, but when I heard that he had hunted for ginseng and had made some whiskey in the mountains, that seemed real familiar, because we did that too."

Ketch Secor

"We know what we are. We're an old-time string band. So let's be the best damn one that we can be, and let's make a real fine record using what we've got - a record that we could play on the street corner, instead of a record that would take a semi truck to get in place, to get all the light wedges and all the monitors in the right spot. We could go play this record out on the curb right now, and it would move ya."

Ketch Secor

'

'Secor and Fuqua began playing tour dates January 2012 as The Ketch & Critter Show, including a benefit show at Little Grill Collective where their performing careers began. Proceeds of this benefit performance went to Our Community Place, for whom Secor recorded his original Christmas song "Send No Angels" for the fundraising album Our Christmas Present in 2008. Fuqua needed this time to get his chops back . .

"I hadn't played in years, so I had to practice remembering my own songs that I wrote. I remember buying a couple songs off of i-Tunes because I didn't have them, and I needed to remember the arrangements that we had on the albums."

Norm Parenteau, "band manager for 10 years" reflected in August 2012: "We didn't know if there was going to be a future of Old Crow about a year ago. It was just hard. But Critter just revived it." Raymond E. Lee of Surviving.the.Golden.Age states, referring to group album Carry Me Back (2012): "For long time listeners, Willy Watson’s high lonesome vocals are sorely missed." For Secor . .

'You can't always stay the same forever . . As much as it changed us to go through the break up with Will, it was tempered by the rejoining of Critter and now Corey Younts.'

'--Artaxerxes (talk) 18:50, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

'Fuqua first reappeared with former bandmate/group co-founder Secor November 20, 2011 at the fourth anniversary Tokens, a "live radio variety show" at Ryman Auditorium to benefit Room in the Inn, "a program that provides meals and shelter to Nashville’s homeless." That episode, "Nashville's New 'Old-Time Radio' Experience", also featured Mike Farris and the Roseland Rhythm Revue and the Nashville Choir. Show creator Lee Camp, professor of theology at Lipscomb University, was "particularly pleased to have Ketch Secor on the show, given that the idea for Tokens" hit him years previously when watching Garrison Keillor of A Prairie Home Companion "ring in the New Year at the Ryman, and Old Crow Medicine Show was one of Keillor’s guests."'--Artaxerxes (talk) 18:55, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

More on early Secor history and influences:--Artaxerxes 21:08, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

References

Genre

"Old Crow Medicine Show has managed to become an elusive, entertaining institution, and stay hungry" by JEWLY HIGHT in Nashville Scene on August 21, 2014.--Artaxerxes 17:01, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Musical style

(removed from article) But by the early 1990s, the era of punk rock and grunge, Secor and Fuqua were "learning to play antiquated unamplified instruments and borrowing songs from their fathers,’ grandfathers’ and even great-grandfathers’ generations." Fuqua remembers . .

". . selling all my Pearl Jam records to get Bob Dylan records. I went back in time and I started listening to Jimi Hendrix, because I knew he’d covered ‘All Along the Watchtower.’ And I started listening to all these Memphis and Delta blues players. And Ketch went down the road to the old-time Appalachian stuff and playing clawhammer banjo. Then we kind of met back up . . and we realized we could put that energy that we loved in punk rock and Nirvana into what we were doing."

"We’re among many bands that have carried on traditions that have come before us and given it our own energy from what we grew up with. I didn’t grow up really listening to bluegrass. I didn’t grow up playing it. I grew up playing heavy metal, and hard rock, and listening to Nirvana. And then in high school, Ketch started playing the banjo, and I started listening to the blues. It’s a real organic thing that happens. This music allows for new energy to be infused into it."

Chris "Critter" Fuqua

This path from punk to old-time they share with other acts, many of whom have followed their lead, and for the same reason . .

"Most of the musicians in the Avett Brothers, Old Crow Medicine Show, the Devil Makes Three, Uncle Earl, Crooked Still, the Duhks, the Mammals, and the Hackensaw Boys were former punk rockers who had picked up acoustic instruments. With no need for amps, they could suddenly play on street corners or in meadows, and their lyrics could be heard as never before. They weren’t imitating the baby boomer generation by playing bluegrass or folk rock. By turning instead to the pre-bluegrass genre of old-time mountain music, they could connect to a tradition older than their parents and still play as fast and hard as they had as punks."

— Geoffrey Himes, Baltimore City Paper

As Secor saw it . .

"On our tour we started having a bigger band. I started playing keyboards. The boys would bring out electric guitars. It was a lot of fun, but we were just blowing off steam. It's hard to be in a rock 'n' roll string band and face your fiddle every day and say, 'All right, what can we do that we've never done before?'"

"It's like the name says, it's a show, there's a snake oil factor and a hip twist to the elixir."

— Frank Goodman, Puremusic.com

--Artaxerxes (talk) 15:56, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Country music is ever-changing stuff, so I’d like to think that Old Crow can be a part of the change that I believe country music needs to make. It needs to be more reflective of a wider group of listeners, and I think that kind of change is in the wind.

— Ketch Secor

--Artaxerxes 17:47, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

I think part of our success is because we haven’t been boxed, because we never really played bluegrass; we always played our own brand of the old-time string band tradition, so we never really had those constraints. I think we realized for ourselves that we can take these musical forms and do what we want with them, which is what people originally did. At one time these roots traditions were brand new, and people were doing new things with them, so we were just kind of expanding that.

— Critter Fuqua

--Artaxerxes 17:54, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

References

Personnel

Be nice to have a bit on each band member, maybe a sentence or two (properly referenced, of course). Would give some balance against the Ketch material, and add depth/perspective to the article. Even those mentioned in band history don't always give the basics on who they are, where they come from, their music history, etc. Artaxerxes (talk) 20:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Cory Younts is not included at the band photo at their bio page.[2] Artaxerxes (talk) 23:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Removed from Personnel section:

Asked mid-2008 if Gill Landry was "now a full-time member or will Critter Fuqua be back?" Secor responded:

"I don’t know. That’s up to him. We have to move forward and keep doing what we’re doing. I can’t convince Critter to come play all over the country with us. I’ve been playing music with Critter since I was 12 years old, and I’m not worried about never playing with him again. Other people shouldn’t worry about it either. I’ll be playing with him until I’m an old man."

From interview: "The other thing that keeps the band rolling is chemistry. Secor and fellow founder Critter Fuqua are longtime friends. When Secor looks back at their relationship, he feels both accomplished and youthful. 'It feels like I'm about 14 years old when we're making music together,' Secor says. 'There were some times during the course of our relationship when... things were really intense and really tough. But we weathered all that, and here on the other side it's just like being kids again.'"--Artaxerxes 17:41, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

References

Chance McCoy

(removed from article)

After "playing in garage and punk bands in the region" he "started playing old time music with this band called The Speakeasy Boys, which was a rag-tag bunch of kids that just graduated college that ran their own speakeasy in this college town, Shepherdstown, West Virginia." He later played with Larry Keel for a year, was a "founding member" of The Woodshedders, and then played with the Lilly Brothers "for a while". He later performed with the old-time group Old Sledge which had "implode(d) at a music festival in Maine" just before he received a request to audition for Old Crow. As McCoy puts it:

"They were looking for somebody who was steeped in old time music and they found me through Augusta Heritage Center because Ketch and Critter both went to Augusta when they were teenagers. They remembered from their experience there that there were a lot of really great old time musicians who teach there."

In Summer 2011 McCoy released Chance McCoy and the Appalachian String Band a "free album of nineteen songs . . his first solo recording . . a beautiful, rootsy collection of country and bluegrass ballads." He participates in OneBeat as one of the 2012 inaugural OneBeat Fellows, 32 from 21 countries, with "a unique and powerful commitment to using music to inspire, engage, educate, and transform society." OneBeat is "a new international cultural exchange by the U.S. Department of State that celebrates the transformative power of the arts through the creation of original, inventive music, and people-to-people diplomacy."--Artaxerxes (talk) 15:35, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

References

Grand Ole Opry/Ryman

It would help to have a concise summary of the group's experiences with the Opry (at the Ryman Auditorium, in the plaza, at the 'house') and also their experiences with the Ryman (as separate from the Opry). It's a little confusing without a proper set-up, and there seems to be much to tell. Just listing appearance dates doesn't work, and no more general word like 'dozen' captures it. Artaxerxes (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

A good take on being asked to join: Mountain Times.

From interview in The Badger Herald:

"Well, the Opry has been around for about 87 years now — it’s close to 90. We celebrated the birthday in October. It’s just such an incredible accolade and mark of achievement for a string band like ours. When we first came to Nashville, the first place we were hired to play was in front of the Opry on the curb. So looking back, I can see now that the Opry was a goal of ours for a good solid decade or more when we first got to Nashville. We are joining the ranks of some really incredible country music makers, real legends of the genre."

Ketch Secor

--Artaxerxes 17:39, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

References

Influences

(removed from article)

"Roots music isn't about what instruments you’re playing but what you’re saying and the drive behind the music. It doesn't have to be old. Roots to me is whatever kind of music is rooted spiritually for a community. Nirvana is my roots music, Guns N' Roses is my roots music. You don’t have to grow a beard and buy overalls to play roots music."

Chris "Critter" Fuqua

As he describes the punk rock influence:

"The first band that I loved was Guns N' Roses, and about the time we were in middle school, Ketch and I were listening to Nirvana, the Pixies, Dead Milkmen, all kinds of stuff. There was a big punk rock scene out of Richmond about that time, early '90s. And in high school, we'd just go watch the punk bands from Richmond play."

"Someone will . . say, 'Well, I heard the banjo in Old and in the Way,' and the first thing I usually tell them is, 'You know, David Grisman didn't invent that. He got that from Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers. And, of course, Charlie Poole got his stuff from earlier stuff.' There's this progression. I always encourage people to go backward."

Ryan Thomson, Secor's mandolin and fiddle teacher at Phillips Exeter

Secor had . .

". . this Newport Broadside record that I was really, really crazy about. It was 1963 at the Newport Folk Festival. And I learned a lot of licks off of that. And I was singing 'You Playboys and Playgirls,' and a bunch of Bob Dylan tunes pretty soon thereafter. So I got to give props to Bob. I think that Bob is really the main one, the integral force in making me want to play jug band music and making me want to go back to the source."

"I often feel that sense of urgency in the music that we play. It’s come a long way and it’s been barreling the whole time, you know, at a breakneck speed to get to you in the present, to the listener, to the moment. I feel a lot of ghosts in the music pushing it on, spurring it on. It’s a powerful horse to ride—these songs—especially in 2012, when it’s more urgent than ever for traditional music to take a stand and be heard."

Ketch Secor

Asked if he ever feels "boxed-in by the traditional roots form of music?" Fuqua responds:

"I don't think it confines us in any way. I think of us as a link in a chain that also consists of links from the Irish and English fiddles and ballads, and the banjos and rhythm from the African Americans. The same chain also has links that go from bluegrass to the blues to even Elvis Presley. There's the same passion, desire and subject matter that we would have, even if we were playing with electric guitars."

As Secor puts it: "If you already love music, you should really just go for it and go back to the raw, weird, deep, toothy, gummy, crazy stuff. That's what got me excited," recommending Guthrie, the Carter Family, and early Dylan . .

"I think artists like that—that point you back, that themselves are not denying that they are rooted in something, that the music and the art that they make is not their own—those artists will send you back down the line. And then you can find out for yourself what makes music so magical in this country."

--Artaxerxes (talk) 16:22, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

From interview in The Badger Herald:

"Well, Bob influences everything, everyone. He’s like the wind. He makes us all bend. I guess I really revere Bob more than most. I felt like I’ve studied Bob all through school; instead of caring much about my studies, I really focused on Bob Dylan. He was the poet I read. He was the fiction I was interested in. He was the mechanic, the physicist I liked. He was just the professor whose classes I most wanted to be in. And all you had to do was just listen. The guy’s got, like, 40 albums out. Each one to me is a masterpiece, even the bad ones. There’s so much to learn about song, about a life in music, about, gosh, everything from celebrity to politics. It’s all in Bob Dylan’s songs. I feel very much like a student of Bob Dylan. And songs like “Sweet Amarillo” and “Wagon Wheel” [originally written by Dylan and covered by OCMS] have been this incredible opportunity to hold in reverence the master but also actually get to work alongside as an apprentice. It’s quite an internship."

Ketch Secor

--Artaxerxes 17:41, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

References

Bluegrass Saturday Night?

In the article, Secor is quoted as being influenced by "driving up to Mt. Jackson, VA to the bluegrass Saturday night in the summer". Does anyone know for sure what he is referencing? I'm guessing he's actually referring to Orkney Springs, VA, which is near Mt. Jackson. Throughout the summer they have relatively large outdoor concerts on Saturday nights. It might be either the Bishop's Bluegrass Festival, which I believe was discontinued in 2007, or the Shenandoah Music Festival. ElmoHoo (talk) 16:08, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Haggard tour

Ketch Secor on touring with Merle Haggard (when?), as interviewed by Brent Owen April 13, 2016 in Leo Weekly:

LEO: You toured with Merle. KS: Yeah, that tour got cut short in Walla Walla, Washington because Waffle House pulled their corporate sponsorship and Merle was just losing so much money trying to keep it moving. But, while it lasted, there were eight shows, in which we followed his Silver Eagle tour bus in our Grand Marquis rental car. We were just eating Haggard’s dust through the Sacramento Valley, through the San Joaquin Valley, shithole towns in Arizona that nobody ever played. But Merle played there. Merle loved America in a way that country music had never seen before.

Artaxerxes 18:39, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Festivals

(removed from article)

• After founder Doc Watson invited the band to participate in his annual MerleFest music festival in Wilkesboro, North Carolina in 2000, the group have appeared there in 2004 2008, and 2014.
• The group appeared at the inaugural 2002 Bonnaroo Music and Arts Festival and have returned in 2005, 2007, and 2011.
• They have appeared at the Telluride Bluegrass Festival in 2005 and 2011, and at the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival in 2003, 2004, and 2009.
• The group appeared at the 2005 Newport Folk Festival in Newport, Rhode Island, sharing stage with such acts as Ray LaMontagne, Richard Thompson, Del McCoury, The Kennedys, Patty Griffin, The Pixies, Buddy Miller, Gillian Welch & David Rawlings, and Elvis Costello. They return to Newport in 2013, the 54th anniversary of the storied festival, along with The Avett Brothers, Justin Townes Earle, Phosphorescent, Milk Carton Kids, The Lumineers, Trombone Shorty & Orleans Avenue, and others.

Ketch Secor on harmonica with Morgan Jahnig of Old Crow Medicine Show perform onstage at the Golden Plains Festival in Meredith, Australia on March 8, 2009.

• They appeared at the first annual BamaJam Music and Arts Festival in Enterprise, Alabama in 2008—ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Hank Williams, Jr., Keller Williams, the Yonder Mountain String Band, Ralph Stanley & The Clinch Mountain Boys, Dan Tyminski, the Del McCoury Band, and Ricky Skaggs & Kentucky Thunder also appeared that year.
• They performed at the 41st Annual New Orleans Jazz Festival in 2010, an event featuring Pearl Jam, Aretha Franklin, Van Morrison, Lionel Richie, The Neville Brothers, Allman Brothers Band, and Anita Baker.
• The group performed at the All Good Music Festival and Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival in 2010. In 2009 they appeared at the CMC (Country Music Channel) Rocks the Snowys in Thredbo, Australia and the Golden Plains Festival held at the "Meredith Supernatural Amphitheatre" over Victorian Labour Day weekend in Victoria, Australia.
• Vince Gill and the group served as one-night headliners at the 9th annual ROMP: Bluegrass Roots and Branches Festival Yellow Creek Park in Owensboro, Kentucky June 2012 for International Bluegrass Music Museum’s 'largest annual fundraising event.' Those who had attended the previous year’s ROMP were polled on what groups they would like to see and Old Crow and The Avett Brothers "topped the list." Other acts included: Carolina Chocolate Drops, Punch Brothers, Greensky Bluegrass, Pokey LaFarge & the South City Three, and Lonesome River Band.
• They performed at the 20th anniversary Celtic Connections in Glasgow, Scotland music festival early 2013 with "(s)ome of the finest acts in folk, Celtic, roots, world music, traditional, indie, blues and jazz" including The Mavericks, Transatlantic Sessions with Mary Chapin Carpenter, Carlos Núñez & the Royal Scottish National Orchestra, Lonesome Fire, Caravan Palace, and Bellowhead. The festival takes "place over 18 days in various venues throughout Glasgow," with the group appearing at The Barrowland Ballroom.
• The group appeared opening day at the Stagecoach Festival 2013 in Indio, California—with Toby Keith, Hank Williams, Jr., Trace Adkins, Connie Smith, and Commander Cody. Lady Antebellum, Dwight Yoakam, Marty Stuart, Justin Townes Earle, Darius Rucker, Jerry Lee Lewis, Charley Pride, Don Williams, Tanya Tucker, and John Reilly and Friends also perform at the festival.
• The group join the Gentlemen Of The Road Stopover festival in 2013, playing in Simcoe, Ontario and Troy, Ohio. They join founders of the festival, Mumford and Sons, and such acts as Alabama Shakes, Yacht Club DJs, Hey Rosetta!, Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, fun., and The Walkmen in a festival that includes five cities in England, Canada, and the U.S.--Artaxerxes 23:54, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

References

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Kevin Hayes

Just wondering if there is any official confirmation that Kevin has left the band? He's still in the template as a current band member, but a former member in the infobox?? Thegraciousfew (talk) 07:57, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Main band photo at their website shows no Kevin Hayes; press kit includes him under Biography (and in banner photo above). Nothing comes up in initial Google search.--Artaxerxes 19:12, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Page featured on YouTube claiming self promotion by the band

{https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4GzuE5ROWU] Legacypac (talk) 21:20, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Fair enough, but probably should mention to go to 9:17 in the video! Thegraciousfew (talk) 18:26, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

References

Nettwerk

(removed from article)

Shortly after their Opry debut, the group signed with Bobby Cudd at Monterey Peninsula Artists, who also represented Robert Earl Keen, the Dave Matthews Band, Chris Isaak, Aerosmith, and Fiona Apple. They went on their "first real tour" May 2001, opening for the Del McCoury band. Appearances at the 2003 South by Southwest (SXSW) in Austin—a "scene" that's "all about getting behind young artists", as Secor puts it—led to the group being signed by Nettwerk, securing their recording future for the next several years. Their first Nettwerk offering, Old Crow Medicine Show in 2004 (popularly known as O.C.M.S.), was produced by Dave Rawlings and mixes "old blues and jug band music with originals that fit smoothly into the tradition"—including the Fuqua "Take 'em Away" and Secor "Wagon Wheel". More than 100,000 copies of O.C.M.S. were sold, behind a "rigorous tour schedule and a memorable live show"; what CMT regarded as "an impressive number for a new band that didn't know much about record deals and everything that goes with it."

Big Iron World (2006), another Rawlings production, added a sense of urgency on new songs like "I Hear Them All". They recorded Tennessee Pusher (2008) in Hollywood with producer Don Was, "rocking harder" with "Alabama High Test" and "Methamphetamine". Secor says the band "figured they'd take some leftover material from the first album, add a few traditional songs and suddenly have a new record." But, he says . .

... it wasn't that easy. Pretty soon, after we realized that that wasn't going to work that way, the gods up above started sending down some lightning bolts of good music and we were able to collect some new material—write some and craft some—that has made the record what it is.

Justin Townes Earle and Gillian Welch appear at debut show for The Big Surprise Tour at Casino Ballroom in Hampton Beach, New Hampshire August 4, 2009.

The Big Surprise Tour featuring Old Crow, Gillian Welch and Dave Rawlings, the Felice Brothers, and Justin Townes Earle kicked off in Hampton Beach, New Hampshire August 2009. The "nine-stop tour" included shows in Knoxville, Nashville, Boston, New York and Philadelphia—and "mark(ed) the first major showcasing of the Dave Rawlings Machine."

In April 2011 the group joined Mumford and Sons and Edward Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros on The Railroad Revival Tour, a tour inspired by the Festival Express tour across Canada in 1970 that included Buddy Guy, Janis Joplin, The Grateful Dead, and The Band. Traveling exclusively in vintage rail cars, the three bands performed in six "unique outdoor locations" over the course of a week starting in Oakland, California. They appear in the musical documentary about the tour, Big Easy Express directed by Emmett Malloy, which premiered March 2012 at the South by Southwest Film Conference and Festival (SXSW Film) in Austin, Texas—winning the Headliner Audience Award.

Ketch Secor on fiddle at benefit show for Our Community Place--Little Grill Collective in Harrisonburg, Virginia on January 14, 2012.

Big Easy Express won the Grammy Award for Best Long Form Music Video in 2013.--Artaxerxes 20:13, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

References