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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3

Removal of a large amount of content

A large amount of duplicated and invalid contents were removed and combined into defined relevant sections.
This included the explanation of the same observances, same rituals, and same historical facts in several sections and paragraphs.
The process of reviewing, repairing, and regulating this article has taken me quite a piece of time and precision; so if you have been concerned by noticing the massive removal, please consider reviewing the new edition and comparing it with the older edition before attempting an opposing performance.
Rye-96 (talk) 02:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

@HistoryofIran: You are misunderstood. None of the sourced portions are removed. Instead, they are moved, combined and regulated into relevant sections; e.g. the portions related to the origin and history of Nowruz are moved into the section History and origin, which itself is divided into the subsections Ancient roots, Achaemenid period, Arsacid and Sassanid periods, After the Muslim conquest, and Contemporary era.
If you take your time and review the new edition, you will notice that the 148 references are completely remained.
Which portions that contain important sourced information are you talking about? Please name some of them, so that I can explain.
Note: Two citations related to the section of Contemporary era (regarding the UN recognition and the International Celebrations) were removed, as one of them was using the official website of the UN which is used several times and the other one was referring to an outdated event. But however, I reverted them back to prevent confusions. The Semi protected template was also removed, because it was added while I was editing the article. That one has been reverted as well.
Rye-96 (talk) 07:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)

Turkich people and Nowruz

Source http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/nowruz-ii does not mention that it is mainly celebrated by Iranian and Turkic people. It says it has been abandoned by Turkic people. Nowruz is celebrated mainly by Iranian people. Yes, also Turkic people celebrate but it is not common among them. We can say it is celebrated by Turkic people but not mainly by them. Also, the article already mentions that some Turkic people celebrating it. Using ...celebrated by mostly Iranian peoples and Turkic peoples.. is not right since it's not part of Turkic culture and majority of Turkic people don't celebrate it.

in this year Recep Erdogan's regime arrested kurdish people of turkey for celebrating Nowruz , it means we must delete turkey cuz turks dont celebrate only kurdish guys. The Stray Dog by Sadeq Hedayat 00:26, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

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Needs to be secondary research, not primary

For example, I moved out the regional pronunciation from the historical etymology into a sub-section of its own. When I went to look for a substantiating article on a .edu site, I could not find any published work. All I could find were various spelling differences between the E. and W. Coasts of the US in accounts of NoRuz celebrations. This is a paper waiting to be written, then cited in this article.MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 18:20, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

On using obsolete source material

I noticed that one of the citations is from a book published in 1919. Surely later editions must have corrected the error that the Jewish calendar is lunar, as stated here. The Jewish calendar is a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunisolar_calendar . Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics: Picts-Sacraments by James Hastings, John Alexander Selbie, Louis Herbert Gray; T. & T. Clark, 1919 - Encyclopedias and dictionaries - 757 pages MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 18:37, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

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Diaspora community celebrations as a new section?

The reference to the Los Angeles celebration stands out because it is already foot-noted. I'm almost certainly that I had previously posted that the common practice in California is to transliterate the holiday's name using the Tehrani pronunciation, which is Noruz. Straight from Tehrangeles: http://www.noroozfestival.com/ . Anyhow, I see that the LA Times has indeed adopted the Nowruz transliteration. MichelleInSanMarcos (talk) 01:28, 11 March 2018 (UTC)

"Pashtuns"

I noticed that with some foods, Pashtuns are also mentioned (always together with the Tajiks - that's the hint). It should be noted that while A FEW urban Pashtuns in Afghanistan (but not elsewhere) may have RECENTLY started to celebrate SOME KIND of Nowruz today under the influence of the (Persian) Tajiks, Pashtuns as a whole have never celebrated and do not celebrate this festival, as they have never been part of the Greater Iranian cultural area (similar to e.g. the ethnically Iranian Ossetians). It is therefore not suitable to mention them as this implies that Pashtuns by and large have celebrated Nowruz and that this festival is part of their mainstream culture, which it clearly isn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.230.228.79 (talk) 20:02, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

All Pashtuns in Afghanistan celebrate Nowroz, no doubt. But in Pakistan, only the Shia Pashtuns in Parachinar, Orakzai Agency, Hangu, etc do so.

Clarification of computation

I am not sure whether the statement that Nowruz is the date of the March equinox is true. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_equinox, that would be March 20 in 2018, but Nowruz 2018 is March 21. Could it be that Nowruz is the first FULL day after the March equinox? Sorry if that's a stupid question, my culture uses the Gregorian calendar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:6B0:2:2801:61E8:EE04:98CB:24E6 (talk) 10:23, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

According to the UN, it's "celebrated on the day of the astronomical vernal equinox, which usually occurs on 21 March." Vox notes that it "begins the second the equinox does — so, not just at the stroke of midnight... this year, Nowruz lands in the evening of March 20." The exact time of the equinox and thus the beginning of the celebration will vary depending on where you are; you can find charts online. Happy Nowruz! BlackcurrantTea (talk) 12:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Baloch

please change ((Baloch)) to ((Baloch people|Baloch)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:541:4500:1760:218:8BFF:FE74:FE4F (talk • contribs)

 Done DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 16:30, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Holy Day for some Muslims

https://the.ismaili/navroz discusses the importance of Nowruz for some Muslim communities, not only Ismaili Muslims. Additionally, the book source added by @RahulRamchandani delves a little deeper. In fact, the Wikipedia article even goes into its religious significance for Muslims. I would also like to add its religious significance for Bahais. Hammad.511234 (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Phonetically Correct Pronunciation of Persian New Year...

I understand this has been in discussed prior. However, I would like to bring it up one more time to the attention of WIKI page that Nowruz is in fact a wrong spelling of the word. Phonetically, it should be Norooz or Norouz. I am not sure what entity or organization have been consulted to conclude that this is the correct pronunciation. If Farhang is the organization; sadly they are not authority in this matter. Their site by itself is an indicator that they do not have a good command of English language. That by itself take the credibility to be an authority when it comes to language, Farsi or English.

Please make an effort to remove "Nowruz" as the spelling of the Persian New Year.

Thank you! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Layla.dekordi (talk • contribs) 15:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

@Layla.dekordi: You can add at the lead paragraph that it is also spelled Norooz and put a reliable source to confirm that. Right now the most common name is Nowruz not "Norooz" or "Norouz", that means when someone wants to search for informations about this subject he is most likely going to type Nowruz not "Norooz", thanks--SharabSalam (talk) 16:34, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Nowruz is the common term in reliable sources, e.g. Iranica. That's all. --Wario-Man (talk) 01:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
Norooz/Norouz is mostly used in the Tehrani accent only, the correct term is Nowruz. --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:52, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Significance of Nowruz

So I made a recent edit that should be talked about first, requested by @Wario-Man:. (About the other edit: in the first paragraph first month of Farvardin in the Iranian calendar will led you to the Iranian Chronologies/Calendars while Farvardin is the first month of the Solar Hijri Calendar also called Iranian Hijri Calendar, so that should be changed. It is minor)

So as we know Nowruz is a cultural occasion of people celebrating spring as in New year but it still has a "Significance". The current Significance is "New year" day. I want to change it like this page New Year's Day (1 January) where the Significance says "The first day of the Gregorian year" but then The first day of the Solar Hijri Calendar. it is just an idea, of what we could do. Casperti (talk) 22:08, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

First, let me ping two other editors @LouisAragon and Wikaviani: who are familiar with this topic. None of your edits were minor. Changing a wikilink is not a minor edit unless the new linked article/content would be a redirect fix, linking to a specific section, or the main article of discussed topic. How is Iranian calendars => Solar Hijri calendar a minor edit?[1] And what about Iranian calendars#Zoroastrian calendar and its first month? However, we can rewrite that part to be a better summary of the whole article and calendars. About your other edit[2]; how is the first day of a calendar is special or significant? Nowruz is similar to Christmas, and the current description New Year holiday summarizes the article very well (new year + celebration + traditions). --Wario-Man (talk) 06:19, 16 January 2020 (UTC)
@Wario-Man: I do not think that Nowruz can be compared to Christmas but more to New year's day 1 January. But you are right we can let it stand like that. My apologies for letting both as minor, I made a mistake and admit it But about the month Farvardin it is literally the first month of the official calendar: the Solar Hijri Calendar. So that is unquestionably an allowed rightful change. It is either a yes or no on that matter. The first month of the Zoroastrian calendar is irrelevant here in this sentence as the term "Farvardin" is used in the modern SH calendar. Casperti (talk) 01:10, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
@Casperti: Your edits were not minor and i'm glad to see that you admit it. About Nowruz, i would say that it's both like Christmas AND the New year's day, because it has both religious and calendar aspects. I stand by how Encyclopedia Iranica describes Nowruz : here :"Nowruz, “New Day”, is the holiest and most joyful festival of the Zoroastrian year. It is also its focal point, to which all other high holy days relate. Its celebration has two strands, the religious and the secular" and here : "The Islamic conquest altered many Iranian traditions specifically associated with national ideology, imperial institutions, and Zoroastrian rituals. Although Nowruz was an established symbol of these three aspects, it did survive while less significant festivals were eclipsed by their Islamic rivals and gradually became abandoned by indifferent Mongol and Turkish rulers or hostile clerical authorities during Safavid and Qajar periods. Nowruz survived because it was so profoundly engrained in Iranian traditions, history, and cultural memory that Iranian identity and Nowruz mutually buttressed each other, and the emergence of a distinctly Persian Muslim society".---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 23:37, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
No. Nowruz is based on Zoroastrian traditions and some nations/ethnicities/religious groups celebrates it in their own way; e.g. see Newroz as celebrated by Kurds and Baháʼí Naw-Rúz. As I said, it's not just the first day of some calendar. It's very similar to Christmas and the current description is OK. And why did you restore one of your edits [3] when this discussion is still active and there is no consensus? Changing New Year holiday => The first day of the Solar Hijri Calendar and Iranian calendars => Solar Hijri calendar are some kind of personal commentary (POV); ignoring pre-Islamic root, Zoroastrian calendar, and traditions/history/variations. --Wario-Man (talk) 10:10, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello @Wario-Man:, This is kind of laughable, first of all I am not changing New Year holiday. I accepted and understood that mistake. Second of all, I am not POV'ing what kind of accuse is this. Everyone knows that Nowruz is Pre-islamic. I am not discussing that.... I only changed the redirection of the sentence that contains the word Farvardin from Iranian chronology / Iranian Calendars to the specific calendar where the name Farvardin is named which is the Solar Hijri Calendar. That is all [4]. Because if I am right the month is Zoroastrian calendar is called Fravašinąm. Maybe we two started in the wrong way. I am totally open right now, just say what we should do about this. I am ready to do that. and Maybe @Wikaviani: can help us too. I am totally open. Casperti (talk) 13:53, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
"Fravašinąm" was the name of Farvardin in ancient times, however, in Middle Persian (Sasanian era), the months was already called "Farvardin" and there was no Hijri calendar back then. For this reason, an exclusive link pointing to the solar Hijri calendar is irrelevant according to me, while a link pointing to Iranian calendars sounds better.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:56, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
@Wikaviani: I checked that, that is totally correct what you say. I admit the mistake I see here too. But now it says "Iranian Calendar" can we change it to what the page is called "Iranian Calendars" like in plural (including the "s"). What do you think @Wario-Man:? Casperti (talk) 17:43, 23 January 2020 (UTC)
I have already edited it. It should be plural because there are several different calendars. --Wario-Man (talk) 07:49, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for the belated answer. It's fine by me.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 23:48, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2020

Please add the attached photo under Haft Mewa. Thank you.[[5]] Waleedkabul (talk) 03:41, 26 March 2020 (UTC)

 Done --Wario-Man (talk) 07:40, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Infobox image

Howdy hello folks! I had a while back changed the lead image (which was of grass...pretty boring and not illustrative) to File:Mountain child.jpg, which took third place in last year's Commons photo of the year. It was reverted as too ethnic. I understand the concern, but now the infobox has...no image, which is worse. How would folks feel about having a collage of 4-5 images, which express the diversity of the holiday? Suggestions of images welcome, I ask here first because I didn't want to go to the trouble of making it without some consensus. CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 20:12, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good. Post your created image (or images) here. I would like to see an image representing diversity of Nowruz. --Wario-Man (talk) 07:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, sounds good. :) I would suggest including one "ancient image" (one of the bas reliefs, for example - to show the depth of history of the holiday), and one image from modern Iran, among others (probably including the excellent Mountain girl pic). Btw, if we use a setup like the COVID-19 pandemic article (and various other articles), one would not need to spend time creating one collage image - just link the individual images (this also allows for swapping out individual images later). -sche (talk) 21:53, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
-sche, Thanks so much for the suggestion, I was mostly able to copy the code from that, which saved a bunch of time. Now it should be easy enough to swap images in/out CaptainEek Edits Ho Cap'n!⚓ 22:45, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

"Observed by"

I propose changing the information about who observes Nowroz in the infobox from countries to ethnic groups. The list of countries is a bit ambiguous and most countries in the world has people who celebrate the New Year. Any thoughts? --Semsûrî (talk) 10:31, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

That would be a large list because most Iranic and Turkic ethnic groups celebrate Nowruz. Could you compile a list? --Wario-Man (talk) 12:52, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
@Wikaviani: Your opinion? --Wario-Man (talk) 12:55, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
These are the ones I could find with a quick search:
Kurds, Persians, Azeris, Tajiks and Balochs,[6] Bekhtashi Albanians,[7], Hazara[8], Uzbeks, Kyrgyzs, Turkmens, Kazakhs[9], Some Jewish sub-groups[10], Gilaki[11], Ossetians, Avars and Lezgins[12], Bashkirs and Tatars[13]
Somewhat comprehensive but I'm sure there are others like Pashtuns and Mazendaranis who celebrate it as well (couldn't find any reference for it). --Semsûrî (talk) 13:47, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
For Mazandarani[14] and it doesn't seem that Pashtuns celebrate. --Semsûrî (talk) 14:03, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Comment : sounds good, since too many countries in the world have people celebrating Nowruz, listing those countries seems quite irrelevant. Best.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:47, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

I prefer something like Christmas. See the infobox, it's simple and summarized. --Wario-Man (talk) 07:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Readers would benefit from a list of celebrators on this page, while its obvious who celebrates Christmas and thus redundant to list there. I'll go ahead and change the infobox which can always be modified. Also, for what reason is the Persian name of Nowruz added in the lead? It's not more Persian than it is an Azerbaijani or Baloch celebration. It could easily be mistaken as some type of POV. --Semsûrî (talk) 08:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
@Wario-Man: I get your point, something like the Christmas infobox would be better, however, while Christmas is mainly celebrated by Christians (along with some other religious groups), Nowruz is, nowadays, primarily celebrated by non-Zoroastrian communities. Thus, my concern is that labeling Nowruz as being celebrated by Zoroastrians (along with some other religious groups) would fail to fit with WP:WEIGHT. Your opinion ?
@Semsûrî: The Persian name of Nowruz sounds relevant here, while That celebration is observed in other countries, it still has its roots in Zoroastrian Persian people.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 08:34, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Just wow... Next time get a consensus and then go for edits like this with a misleading edit summary. When did I agree with your edits?! There is no consensus on talk page. You also removed Persian name which makes your edit 2x disruptive. That's not how we discuss the concerns on talk pages. Just don't edit before we reach a consensus (an accepted infobox) here. --Wario-Man (talk) 13:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Back to the topic. Nowruz is a Persian word. Removing it from the lead and infobox does not make any sense. Have you seen other similar articles like Chinese New Year, Japanese New Year, and Korean New Year? Actually your suggestion is some kind of a biased opinion and ignoring all facts and cited sources on this article. --Wario-Man (talk) 13:32, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for the premature move.
On the lead, when I read: "Nowruz (Persian: نوروز‎, pronounced [nowˈɾuːz]; lit. ' "new day"') is the Iranian New Year,[19][20] also known as the Persian New Year", I get the feeling that the holiday has its origins among Persians and that it is more Persian than Baloch or Kurdish. This is the main problem.
1: The Persian name (Nowruz) is used as page title. I assume on the grounds of being the most common term in literature for this holiday contra Navruz or Newroz (or)? I got no issue with this. However, then the article proceeds to focus on the Persian spelling ("New Day" and "نوروز") instead of recognizing that the holiday has a dozen other equal names that do not derive from the Persian spelling. The name of the holiday derives from Parthian.[15] I get that an explanation is needed for the term "Nowruz" since it's the name of the article but we just have to remember its only the name of the article because that spelling has become the most common one in english literature. Why not do like at Christmas where there's no mention of the Greek/Hebrew origins of the word in the lead?
Secondly, considering that many ethnic groups celebrate what Persians call Nowruz with their own particular traditions etc, the name of the holiday modifies after context; You would see the term Kurdish New Year (48K hits) in a Kurdish context, for Tajiks you'll see Tajik New Year (18K hits) and so on. So my question is, why even mention in the lead that Nowruz is called Persian New Year? That is what I consider problematic and honestly I do not consider the lead neutral.
Regarding the infobox, I do believe the ethnic list was simple and concise and clearer than what he currently have. Only Kurds and Persian tourists celebrate this holiday in Armenia and they constitute about 1% of the population. Should we really have Armenia on that list? If you could list your concerns, we could maybe move forward with the issue. On another note, the Iranica Online article (ref 21) seems to have been removed and the quote is gone from their website.--Semsûrî (talk) 20:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
"The name of the holiday derives from Parthian" Where exactly does your source (even if that source was to be considered as a reliable source ...) say that ? As far as i can see, the only mention of the origin of the word Nowruz is on page 117 : "its etymology dates back to Pahlavi, which was one of the old Iranian languages". I'm afraid that you're confusing Pahlavi language with Parthian language. Pahlavi is an alternative name for Middle Persian. Please let me know if you think that i'm mistaken. Cheers.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 00:12, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
Iranica also mentions this Nokroj theory.[16] I assumed he meant Parthian since (Arsacid) Pahlavi is a second name for that language. If it is Middle Persian, I think that the intro should state that instead of having the modern Persian name, if anything at all. --Semsûrî (talk) 19:20, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
First, you said you want to remove Persian name just because many ethnic groups celebrate Nowruz. And now this... It seems you didn't even read Iranica article carefully. Middle Persian name is nōg-rōz and the name of this article is Nowruz which comes from the Persian name (the descendant). By your logic, the next step would be renaming this article to Nōgrōz (ignoring the common term Nowruz in English sources and media). Then another user appears and demands using Old Persian or Avestan name if they existed. Your request/suggestion sounds very personal (POV) in this case. I see zero Parthian in etymology.[17][18] Even if the name has any thing to do with Parthian, again it's irrelevant to the lead section. Because Nowruz is not Parthian, Middle Persian or XYZ word. Simple: it's a Persian word. We use "Nowruz" and our readers want to know what it means and the lead summarizes and explains it. That's all. You better drop your stick. Also remember that you opened this discussion for that "Observed by..." thing. So I don't see any reason in continuing this discussion unless you back to the topic: infobox and "observed by" parameter. --Wario-Man (talk) 03:01, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
@Semsûrî: Again, the Parthian language and Pahlavi language are distinct languages. Also, Nowruz is a modern Persian word, not a Middle Persian word, your source said "its etymology dates back to Pahlavi", not "it's a Middle Persian word".---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 12:20, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Adjusting Intro Line

Hello - proposal to adjust the intro line. First line reads: "Nowruz (Persian: نوروز‎, pronounced [nowˈɾuːz]; lit. ' "new day"') is the Iranian New Year,[19][20] also known as the Persian New Year,[21][22] which is celebrated worldwide by various ethno-linguistic groups."

Proposal is to switch the order so "Persian New Year" comes first and then you can note Iranian New Year. This statement is more inclusive to the fact that many other countries (as listed later below) that were part of the Persian empire celebrate Nowruz and it is not an Iranian only new year.

Thank you

~~06.17.20~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Missb01 (talk • contribs) 06:58, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

In this case: Iranian =/= Iranian (from Iran or Iranian nationality). Iranian means Iranian (AKA Iranic) here. Have you clicked on Iranian in 2nd paragraph (Nowruz has Iranian and Zoroastrian origins...) of lead section? And how is Persian Empire relevant here? e.g. Kyrgyz people celebrate Nowruz but when Kyrgyz lands and modern-day Kyrgyzstan was a part of Persian empire?! --Wario-Man (talk) 07:39, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 March 2021

Nowruz (“new day” in Persian/Dari) is the Spring's and Solar year's first day, observed and celebrated by Persians/Farsi/Dari speaking people of countries like: Afghanistan, Albania, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, China, Georgia, India, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Kashmir, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Northern Cyprus, Pakistan, Russia, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan. This day is also celebrated by Shia and Ismaili Muslims around the world. Mnakbary (talk) 15:29, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Not sure exactly what you'd like to have changed in the article. Pupsterlove02 talk • contribs 15:43, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Eidi

I am from iran and i think you missed something about Eid it is eidi.when people visit each other they pay some money to little kids AbolfazlA ffjdudeu (talk) 17:35, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Nowruz in Armenia

The section Nowruz#Armenia says:

Since the extinction during the 19th century, Nowruz is not celebrated by Armenians and is not a public holiday in Armenia.

Does "the extinction" here refer to the Hamidian massacres of 1890's? If so, using the term "extinction" for an ethnic group is very inappropriate and should be changed. I actually can't think of any possible situation where "extinction" would be appropriate for humans except as a whole species. Mahrud (talk) 04:53, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2021

"also known as the Persian New Year" To the editor: Nowruz has been celebrated for more than 3000 years before the Persian empire. It was celebrated among Medes and so on... Nowruz is known as Persian New Year among Persians, Kurdish New Year among Kurds and so on for other ethnics, that sentence is misleading since Kurds, Afghans, ... are not Persian. And Not all these ethnics are Iranian (the border which is known as Iran) 2601:803:8280:6AB:2535:1B09:A2D1:2501 (talk) 18:40, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

I also don't get why Wikipedia always lets to spread this Pro-Persian sentiment. Newroz is clearly not Persian and Iranian. First of all, the term iranian is misleading and should be changed to "iranic" (if at all). Secondly, it is quite disrespectful towards all those other ethnicities who celebrate it (again!) to call it the persian new year. We dont know about the exact origin and it is also blatant that it is celebrated mostly by Kurds, Afghans, Baluch, Iranians and probably some others. So why call it persian? It is a shame that this pro-persian propaganda is spread just like the turkish one where they call all those dishes from the middle east "turkish food" and are depicted with their turkish names here on wikipedia. Shameful for wikipedia. 95.116.151.171 (talk) 13:35, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 Not done. Wikipedia is written using reliable sources, and Nowruz is often referred to as the "Persian New Year" by academic sources. Thats why we mention it. These type of comments above are from the realm of WP:JDL, WP:FORUM and WP:OR and are not allowed on Wikipedia per its guidelines. More of such comments will therefore be removed. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:17, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

two things, the spelling doesn't make sense, it's literally NO-ROOZ , though ""No" means New in Farsi the Way wikipedia spells it or Google for that matter, ,, Nawruz, Norooz, Nowruz, or Nurooz, All make the phenetic sound Way off. The correct Way is as it sounds,, Norooz,,

2, All the Nations celebrating Norooz were Part of the great Persian empire, All considered One nation at the time of the invention of the solar callendar which marked the official naming of the celebrations of The spring equinox as the Persian new year start for the whole empire. Dr.hdashti (talk) 18:04, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

"Norooz" is how modern Tehranis pronounce it (as they cannot pronounce the "w" sound), and is not at all the historical or common pronounciation of the word "نوروز" in Persian. Persian-speakers outside Tehran pronounce it "Nowruz" or "Nawroz" or "Novruz" depending on the region. Since "Nowruz" is the most common spelling when referred in the English language it is the name used in this article. --Qahramani44 (talk) 18:13, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 March 2021

Please remove that Nowruz is Iranian celebration only it’s celebrated among many Persian countries that Iran was part of 2600:1700:530:BD6F:58E1:8E99:5C53:F9FF (talk) 01:11, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it doesn't seem the article claims that it's only an Iranian celebration, see e.g. the "observed by" list in the infobox or the statement "it has been celebrated by diverse communities for over 3,000 years in Western Asia, Central Asia, the Caucasus, the Black Sea Basin, the Balkans, and South Asia." Volteer1 (talk) 15:11, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

The Lead's issue: Iranian, Persian, and Zoroastrian

  • I removed these two citations; one is not a reliable source and the other does not have such quote (it's just an index): [19][20]
  • It seems Iranian New Year is not mentioned in the cited source The Wiley-Blackwell Companion to Zoroastrianism (I didn't find the exact term) and it sounds like WP:OR. However you can find "Iranian New Year" in some sources at Brill.
  • For Persian New Year; the citation Religious Celebrations: An Encyclopedia of Holidays, Festivals, Solemn Observances, and Spiritual Commemorations says: "Nowruz, an ancient spring festival of Persian origin (and the Zoroastrian New Year's day)...". Just like the above issue, it looks like an original research in my opinion. Can we interpret it as Persian New Year? Again, the term exists in articles published by an academic source like Brill.
  • Iranica says: "Nowruz, “New Day”, is the holiest and most joyful festival of the Zoroastrian year." You can the term Zoroastrian New Year at Brill too.

I think we should rewrite the lead and cite sources that directly mention Iranian/Persian/Zoroastrian New Year. Wario-Man talk 04:51, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

It was rather easy to find these:
  1. "Nowruz, “New Day”, is a traditional ancient festival which celebrates the starts of the Persian New Year. It is the holiest and most joyful festival of the Zoroastrian year." -- Mary Boyce, A. Shapur Shahbazi and Simone Cristoforetti. "NOWRUZ". Encyclopaedia Iranica Online[21]
  2. "The custom of the “false emir” or “Nowruz ruler” leading a procession through the city has been traced back to pre-Islamic Nowruz, the traditional Persian New Year." -- Michèle Epinette, (2014). "MIR-E NOWRUZI" Encyclopædia Iranica [22]
  3. " In advance of Nowruz (the Persian New Year holiday), the Varamin Mīrās̱ and Awqāf announced the closure of a total of eight emāmzādeh s in Varamin and" -- Keelan Overton and Kimia Maleki (2021). The Emamzadeh Yahya at Varamin: A Present History of a Living Shrine, 2018–20 . Journal of Material Cultures in the Muslim World. Volume 1: Issue 1-2
  4. "Karimov brought back the very popular Persian New Year, Navro’z (Nowruz) and introduced entirely new commemorative events such as Flag Day, Constitution Day and (...) "" -- Michal Fux and Amílcar Antonio Barreto. (2020). "Towards a Standard Model of the Cognitive Science of Nationalism – the Calendar ". Journal of Cognition and Culture. Volume 20: Issue 5
More later.
- LouisAragon (talk) 13:43, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. "They celebrate the new year, which they call Chār shanba sur , on the first Wednesday of April, slightly later than the Iranian new year, Now-Ruz, on 21 March. " -- Richard Foltz (2017). "The “Original” Kurdish Religion? Kurdish Nationalism and the False Conflation of the Yezidi and Zoroastrian Traditions". Journal of Persianate Studies. Volume 10: Issue 1
  2. "(...) question of ‘what is the nevruz ?’ or describe its ‘real’ meaning, such as the spring festival or the Iranian New Year." -- Gianfranco Bria (2020). "Celebrating Sultan Nevruz: Between Theological Debate and Multi-Framed Practice in Contemporary Albania". 'Studia Islamica. Volume 14: Issue 3
  3. "On March 20, 2009, newly-elected us president Barak Obama, speaking on the occasion of the Iranian New Year, struck a conciliatory note by twice (...)" -- Navid Pourmokhtari (2014). "Understanding Iran’s Green Movement as a ‘movement of movements’ ". Sociology of Islam. Volume 2: Issue 3-4
  4. "On the occasion of Nowruz 2017 (the Iranian New Year’s Festival celebrated in many countries by various populations) it launched a “social dialogue initiative” to promote encounters between all components of Iraqi society" -- Emanuela C. Del Re (2019). Giuseppe Giordan and Andrew P. Lynch, eds. "Minorities and Interreligious Dialogue: From Silent Witnesses to Agents of Change ". Brill
- LouisAragon (talk) 13:53, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@LouisAragon: That's the point. There are enough sources there and all of them mention both terms (full names). Choose the most relevant ones and replace the current citations (in the lead) with them. 1-2 source(s) for each term = enough. No need to WP:OVERCITE. Wario-Man talk 14:10, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

@Wario-Man: I added most of them as I don't want that "muh IMO this source is BiAseD" bullcrap by drive-by IPs/accounts and sockpuppets/meatpuppets. You are free to delete whatever sources you think are unneeded. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:04, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
It's OK and other editors can improve it. You can use this discussion for the future similar stuff by those IP users and random accounts. This article may need some more cleanup and improvements. I think some parts are a mix of reliable sources + original research (similar to the issues I mentioned here). Wario-Man talk 17:34, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2021

Hi, I'm confused by the following paragraph:

Armenia Since the extinction during the 19th century, Nowruz is not celebrated by Armenians and is not a public holiday in Armenia. However, it is celebrated in Armenia by tens of thousands of Iranian tourists who visit Armenia with relative ease.[105] The influx of tourists from Iran accelerated since around 2010–11.[106][107] In 2010 alone, around 27,600 Iranians spent Nowruz in capital Yerevan.[108]

In 2015, President Serzh Sargsyan sent a letter of congratulations to Kurds living in Armenia and to the Iranian political leadership on the occasion of Nowruz.[109]

Not sure what is meant by "extinction during the 19th century", it sounds obscure, especially in the absence of any reference to other sources. Ii think that part needs to be removed. 38.81.108.227 (talk) 17:53, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps they meant "genocide" instead? Lomrjyo (talk) 01:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I rather think that they are talking about the extinction of Nowruz celebration in Armenia.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 01:42, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Wikaviani That makes more sense. Lomrjyo (talk) 02:58, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
 Done – I've just changed it to say "Since the 19th century..." I assume too (in the absence of any other explanation) that it was meant to mean the extinction of the celebration, though it's a bizarre way to phrase it. Either way, it's fixed now. ‑‑Volteer1 (talk) 17:21, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

NAWROZ

First day of Hijri Shamsi (Hijri Sun) Years 103.28.132.212 (talk) 13:35, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Unnamed section

Sorry but the information about Turkey is wrong. Almost everyone in Turkey celebrates Newroz and it not restricted to Azerbaijani Turks, Yörüks or Kurds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeynepbal84 (talk • contribs) 10:45, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Correction to infobox image

Could someone with editing privilege's correct the map in the infobox. The territories of India are not completely colored in. Thank you. 185.172.190.0 (talk) 17:03, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Afghanistan does not use the Solar Hijri calendar

Currently, the article states in the section "Overview" that "Nowruz is the first day of Farvardin, the first month of the Iranian solar calendar, which is the official calendar in use in Iran as well as Afghanistan". However, the Iranian Solar calendar is no longer used in Afghanistan following the Taliban takeover. The Wikipedia article on Iranian Solar calendar confirms this as well. So, if other editors can confirm that Afghanistan isn't following the Solar calendar, this should be changed to not mention Afghanistan, or mention that it formerly followed the calendar.

77.219.9.107 (talk) 12:37, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done AirmanKitten203 (talk) 15:43, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

References

Georgia

The map shows Georgia as a country that observes Nowruz, yet Nowruz can not be found among their national holidays. Please change Georgia's color. Salazar the terrible (talk) 12:59, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

@Salazar the terrible: [23] - LouisAragon (talk) 18:36, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
I suppose it should be added to Public holidays in Georgia (country) too then. Salazar the terrible (talk) 09:00, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

Change all terms "Iran" to Persian

Hello,

I beleive it is inaccurate to describe Nowruz as Iranian or as from "Iran" as it undermines all other regions which are also persian. The Persian empire and its religion and traditions are larger than the region of "Iran" and emcompasses other regions such Afghansitan, Tadjikistan, Turkey and others. Therefore, I believe it will be more accurate to refrain from all mentions to "Iran" and keep the term "Persian" instead, ie: "Nowruz (Persian: نوروز [noːˈɾuːz]) is the Iranian or Persian New Year..." "It is a festival based on the Iranian Persian Solar Hijri calendar..." "The day of Nowruz has its origins in the Iranian Persian religion of Zoroastrianism and is thus rooted in the traditions of the Iranian Persian peoples;"

Overview "The first day of the Iranian Persian calendar falls..." "the first month of the Iranian Persian solar calendar, which is the official calendar in use in Iran, and formerly in Afghanistan."

Please review and correct all the mentions to "Iran" or "Iranian" to "Persian" and "Persian regions" in the article. 204.138.127.13 (talk) 13:00, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

The roots of the word Nowruz:

Now or No is the same word as new and just its pronunciation has been changed by the passage of time. Ruz is the same word as rise which its pronounciation has been changed in the same way. There are many words such as mother or brother which are in Iranian language just with different pronunciations. New Rise means new rise of the life in the spring ... 72.1.195.7 (talk) 18:29, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

Arab-muslim "conquest" vs. Turkic Mongolic "invaders"

I would expect a more neutral wording. Filanca (talk) 15:05, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

New year

@HistoryofIran:, you reverted my edit here and mentioned it contradicts the cited sources. Would you please explain what you mean by that? This was literally in the references I cited. Do you need more references? Or you need footnotes? Also, you added Might as well add every other ethnicity that celebrates it too. My edit was not about celebration. It was about new year. Iran has Nowruz in its calendar as new year, and so does the Kurdistan Government. They call it Kurdish new year [24]. Please help me understand.This is Wikipedia:Content removal, and not accepted in Wikipedia unless there is a reason. Thanks Pirehelo (talk) 21:41, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

you reverted my edit here and mentioned it contradicts the cited sources.
I mean, most of the article basically, particularly the sourced lede. This is about the Persian/Iranian New Year, which has influenced many countries leading them to celebrate it too, not the Kurdish one. The Kurdish one is here Newroz as celebrated by Kurds.
My edit was not about celebration. It was about new year.
Which is the same, you celebrate a new year after all, thats the point of it.
They call it Kurdish new year
So?
This is Wikipedia:Content removal, and not accepted in Wikipedia unless there is a reason.
This makes no sense, you just replied to my reasonings. If we’re gonna talk about violating rules, then you are currently doing that with WP:CONSENSUS. Ive reverted you again, please refrain from edit warring. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:01, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
First, These are your opinions. Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability. Wikipedia is not an opinion piece! You need references for these claims. If there are references falsifying my claims please let me know. If there are disagreeing references both should be included not the ones you like.
Second, If you are concerned about different spellings, the headline of the Guardian page I cited literally reads "Nowruz: Kurdish new year 2023 celebrations" not Newroz. The peer-reviewed article that I cited has Newroz/Nowruz in its keyword. It included both forms with a slash indicating they are interchangeable. The abstract reads Even though it marks the beginning of the Kurdish and the Persian new year.
Third, Of course celebration and new year are different things. Nowruz is celebrated in Albania and Turkey. Is it the beginning of Albanian and Turkish new year too?
Finally, this article is about Nowruz. It is not about Persian Nowruz. If you think that such article is necessary, please go ahead and create it.
So, I am still not clear about the reason for removing the content I added. Please enlighten me.
Thanks, Pirehelo (talk) 22:35, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
First, These are your opinions. Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability. Wikipedia is not an opinion piece! You need references for these claims. If there are references falsifying my claims please let me know. If there are disagreeing references both should be included not the ones you like.
I’m sorry, but this and the rest of your comment clearly demonstrate that you did not properly read what I wrote, and especially not the article... Please do that, and then adress that instead of randomly casting WP:ASPERSIONS. This is the second time you are accusing of something I did not do. If you want a constructive conversation, please do not make a third. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:54, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran: Please explain why you removed the content I added. Is Nowruz Kurdish New Year? It is a yes or no question. If it is, I see no reason why it should be removed from the article.
You removed the content I added - about Newroz being the Kurdish new year- with three reliable references. There are many more references for it. Either falsify my references or I am going to add it once again. Consensus is not a unilateral thing. This is a disagreement about content and should be resolved by references not your personal opinion. Pirehelo (talk) 23:13, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
should be resolved by references not your personal opinion.
Aaand the third accusation with no proof. You are clearly unable to engage in a constructive discussion. If I am wrong, please quote when I wrote my own opinion.
Please explain why you removed the content I added
I already did, read and reply [25], it's not rocket science. Instead, you are twisting part of my comment and adding your WP:ASPERSIONS onto it, while the other part you simply avoid and then continue with random questions - honestly, what gives you the right to ignore and twist what I am saying and then bringing random and irrelevant questions/remarks up? This is not how you do a discussion.
Either falsify my references
What does this even mean...
or I am going to add it once again. Consensus is not a unilateral thing. This is a disagreement about content and should be resolved by references not your personal opinion.
This is pretty ironic, and you now threatening to be disruptive. Honestly, I am tired of giving WP:GF to users who don't deserve it and ultimately end up getting blocked. Continue edit warring and I'll report you to WP:ANI for WP:EDITWARRING, WP:ASPERSIONS, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and WP:STONEWALLING.
Also, read WP:RS. The Guardian nor the Iraqi Kurdish government is not part of that.. HistoryofIran (talk) 23:41, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
@HistoryofIran:, I am going to ignore the sarcasm and personal attacks and respond to your arguments
First, this article not about Nowruz as celebrated by Iranians and Persians. Nowruz does not belong to an ethnicity or nation and neither does Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of national promotion.
Second, if you are challenging the references, there are hundreds of peer reviewed articles calling Newroz the Kurdish new year. One of the sources I shared was peer reviewed. So are these [26], [27][28]. Also there is ample evidence from the past few centuries calling Nowruz the Kurdish or Kurdistani New Year like Mem and Zin epic from the 1690s calling Newroz New year and old Kurdistani traditon.
Third, what do you mean by what is falsification? If you don't know that, I am not sure how you engage in a scientific debate (unless your notion of science is radically different that of Popper!).
Finally, you do not have the agency to decide who is going to be blocked. Everyone is allowed to edit the articles.Pirehelo (talk) 00:04, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
I am going to ignore the sarcasm and personal attacks and respond to your arguments
I wasn't being sarcastic, and I certainly wasn't making personal attacks (which is rich coming from you).
First, this article not about Nowruz as celebrated by Iranians and Persians.
Except it is.. hence why we also have Newroz as celebrated by Kurds, which you are ignoring. In the article, the customs, history etc are all in relation to Iran, such as the Achaemenid, Parthian and Sasanian eras, which predate the existence of the Kurds [29].
Wikipedia is not a soapbox or means of national promotion.
Indeed, you should listen to it then.
Second, if you are challenging the references, there are hundreds of peer reviewed articles calling Newroz the Kurdish new year. One of the sources I shared was peer reviewed. So are these [3], [4][5]. Also there is ample evidence from the past few centuries calling Nowruz the Kurdish or Kurdistani New Year like Mem and Zin epic from the 1690s calling Newroz New year and old Kurdistani traditon.
Yes, because the Kurds celebrate it as their new year too. Still, does not make it right to add it in this article when it's about the Iranian/Persian Nowruz. Unless you mean to say that all these nations celebrate Nowruz due to the Newroz..etc
Third, what do you mean by what is falsification? If you don't know that, I am not sure how you engage in a scientific debate (unless your notion of science is radically different that of Popper!).
Actually, what you said made no sense. If this was an attempt at humor, then it was a poor one.
Finally, you do not have the agency to decide who is going to be blocked.
You're right. I don't - that's why I said I would take it to WP:ANI. HistoryofIran (talk) 01:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Isn't Nowruz celebrated by Afghans and several other ethnic groups as their new year? Why not adding Baháʼí Naw-Rúz to the lead section? It is their new year too. Also, the celebration of Nowruz is important for several Turkic groups. So should we open a Pandora's box? Adding dozens of Nowruz's and XYZ New Year to the lead section?! This article is similar to Christmas. It should not be bloated by stuff I mentioned. The Kurdish Nowruz does have its own article. Can you prove Kurdish Newroz = Nowruz? e.g. do Central Asians celebrate Kurdish version? Or their version of Nowruz is based on the original Zoroastrian tradition, Solar Hijri calendar, and their own traditions? How many non-Kurdish groups use Kurdish calendar? Finally, per WP:WEIGHT and WP:COMMON, is Kurdish new year an accepted term for Nowruz? How many historians, academics, and scholars use it? Does Kurdish new year have the same weight as Persian new year in academic works and reliable sources? Obviously, the answer is No. Plus, I think we should remove that bold "Iranian" from the lead too. Google results show neither Iranian nor Kurdish new year is as common as Persian new year when you search about the term Nowruz. In the end, the lead could be a better summary of other Nowruz's. I mean it is OK to mention which specific ethnic groups, regions or countries celebrate Nowruz as their new year. --Mann Mann (talk) 02:03, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

@Mann Mann: If you have references suggesting that Nowruz is the new year for Afghans and other groups, please feel free to add it to the article. I don't see a reason why not. Many academics and historians have used the term Kurdish new year for Newroz. Some examples are given above.
@HistoryofIran:, this article is not about Nowruz for Persians, I will not stay silent for you or any other user to remove contents that have references. Nowruz belongs to many nations and this should be reflected in the article. Pirehelo (talk) 02:36, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
You completely missed Mann Mann's point, and ignored mine.. HistoryofIran (talk) 02:49, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Mann Mann used the term opening the Pandora's box as if Nowroz is the new year for a million nations and adding them causes chaos. Nowruz is not Persian new year or Kurdish new year. Nowruz is Nowruz. It has been around for ages and celebrated by many groups, and this article shouldn't be about only one neither should it exclude one. If you add an ethnicity or nationality to the lead paragraph, we should add others too. WP:NPOV 101. Pirehelo (talk) 03:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
Not million, but clearly dozen, if you bothered to read the article as you've been given the chance several times (not to mention Mann Mann also came with examples...). And you are now changing your argument, earlier you insisted that Nowruz is Kurdish, but now Nowruz is Nowruz? Clearly not per the article and its cited WP:RS. Your comment clearly demonstrates that you have set your mind to this - but no one is going to add something just because you simply want it. It is you who is violating WP:NPOV here, and I'm still awaiting a response to the comment I made above Mann Mann's comment, whose comment you did not properly address either. HistoryofIran (talk) 03:14, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Hallo, in the map it should be correctly noted that Afghanistan is a country where Nawroz is celebrated as New Year.

Hallo, it should be corrected in the map, that Afghanistan is a country where Nawroz is celebrated also as New Year 2001:1C03:491C:EB00:E001:BC02:5649:72E5 (talk) 17:56, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Infobox images

Currently we have five images in infobox (excluding the map), and 4/5 images are from Iran. I think the images need to be diverse (representing different regions and celebrations); e.g. 2 images from West Asia, 1 image from Central Asia, and 2 images from another region or community. @HistoryofIran and LouisAragon: What do you think? --Mann Mann (talk) 03:07, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

What do you think about this slightly different proposal; 2 images from Iran (the current Persepolis and haft-sin), 1 from another area in West Asia, 1 from Central Asia and 1 from another place? HistoryofIran (talk) 13:13, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Hmmm... If we keep two images from Iran (Persepolis and haft-sin), then what about the image of Kurdish girl with a torch? She is from Iran too and I think it's a good image. I suggest keeping haft-sin in infobox and moving Persepolis to the a relevant section in the body of article. As for West Asia, an image from Azerbaijan would be a good choice. For Central Asia, I added Kazakh tradition. For another place/community, it could be from South Asia, Europe, Russia, or America. It just needs to be a quality image. --Mann Mann (talk) 16:56, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
That sounds good too. HistoryofIran (talk) 17:49, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
I added some new images. Feel free to change them if they are not good enough. --Mann Mann (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

NOT Holi but Gudi Pawa, Songkran (Thailand), Thingyan

Though Holi signifies Spring Equinox ... its not New Year

- Hindu New Year (Not Entirety)

- Thai New Year (Songkran)

- Thingyan (Myanmar) 103.178.144.60 (talk) 08:19, 13 April 2024 (UTC)

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