Talk:Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law/Archive 1

Archive 1

JB Pritzer

Under Alumni, should JB Pritzker link to the Pritzker Family? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlee37 (talk • contribs) 19:57, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. IvyLaw (talk) 12:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Proper Seal/Logo for Northwestern Law

Prior discussion copied from User_talk:Alanscottwalker#Northwestern_Law_logo for context. — TransporterMan (TALK) 15:20, 12 August 2011 (UTC): I am curious why you feel that the old law school seal should be placed on the law school page. It has not been used in official or marketing communications since former Dean Van Zandt's appointment. Furthermore, even if it is being placed for historical reasons, the image that you selected is of such low quality that it disserves the page. The official seal of the law school is now the same as that of Northwestern University. IvyLaw (talk) 02:27, 6 August 2011 (UTC) Many schools, such as the University of Florida, used seals at one point, but those seals are no longer in use (or no longer the official logos of the universities). IvyLaw (talk) 02:34, 6 August 2011 (UTC) The seal has not changed; it is still the official seal. The school's seal is not the same as the university's and has never been so. Wikipedia is not about marketing, and the seal is what goes in that place in these info boxes. The resolution issue is to satisfy copyright and it appears fine on the page. What another university has or has not done is irrelevant. Alanscottwalker (talk) 02:50, 6 August 2011 (UTC) Nowhere is this old seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NWLawSeal.png) used or mentioned on the law school's website. In contrast, the main University's seal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Northwestern_University_Seal.svg), as well as the "large N" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NorthwesternLaw.svg) are used for the law school's page, subpages, and vast array of publications. See, e.g., http://www.law.northwestern.edu/jilb/ http://www.law.northwestern.edu/library/research/ http://www.law.northwestern.edu/ http://www.law.northwestern.edu/communications/brand/ IvyLaw (talk) 11:43, 12 August 2011 (UTC) A DRN has been initiated for this dispute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Northwestern_University_School_of_Law IvyLaw (talk) 12:06, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

There appear to be three seals/logo that may be placed in the infobox: (1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NWLawSeal.png (2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Northwestern_University_Seal.svg (3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NorthwesternLaw.svg

I believe that option #2 is the most authoritative (and hence should be used in the infobox) because it is used extensively on the school's webpage and publications and because it does not appear to be for marketing purposes per se. Alternatively, I think choice #3 should be placed in the infobox because the school considers #3 to be the official logo/seal. See http://www.law.northwestern.edu/communications/brand/ Choice #1 seems incorrect because it is nowhere used on the school's webpage or materials. In fact, the old seal (choice #1) appears to be no longer in use by the institution. IvyLaw (talk) 12:46, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

This is a false conflict. The marketing image you prefer is already in the info box, at the bottom, and you, I believe put it there. It's not informative to have it twice in the article, and it is not encyclopedic, for this reason and the reasons that follow.

You are incorrect that the law school seal is not mentioned on the law school web pages:

"1925 The Law School adopts its seal, which uses the emblem of St. Ives, patron saint of the legal profession, and the slogan “bon droit et raison” (with good law and justice)."http://www.law.northwestern.edu/news/150anniversary/. :Thus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NWLawSeal.png

Marketing campaigns are subject to change at any time, usually with a change of personnel. Because they are by definition and purpose fads, it is therefore not encyclopedic to choose the marketing image. (Note that the marketing image is already elsewhere in the info box, at the bottom, and I believe you put it there, thus, in order to fully inform the reader the school's seal should go in the place at the top). The seal of the law school is not the same as the seal of the University and the school's seal is what belongs in that place in the info box for the school, just as the seal for the Univerisity is in that page's infobox. (see, Northwestern University) Alanscottwalker (talk) 16:05, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Also, for the record the standard at Wikipedia:College and university article guidelines#Article_structure states the school seal or coat of arms goes in the top place in the info box. Nowhere is the "N" listed as the school seal or coat of arms, unlike http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NWLawSeal.png which is the school seal.Alanscottwalker (talk) 18:15, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree that this seal NWLawSeal.png is the current, official seal. I do agree that it was the official seal as of 1925. IvyLaw (talk) 02:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

"An official transcript bears the Northwestern University School of Law Seal." Here is a redacted image of a Northwestern Law transcript: http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6044461858_0ed817d1b3_z.jpg Here is the correct seal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northwestern_University I think this dispute should be resolved and the Northwestern University seal placed on the Northwestern Law article infobox. The old seal could be shown somewhere else in the article. IvyLaw (talk) 03:31, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Your claims lack varifiable sources and constitute original research, therefore your proposed edit violates wikipedia guidelines: "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true. To show that it is not original research, all material added to articles must be attributable to a reliable, published source appropriate for the content in question,." The published sources presented here show that the school adopted "its seal." http://www.law.northwestern.edu/news/150anniversary/ :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NWLawSeal.png. No published source presented says it disadopted "it's seal." Alanscottwalker (talk) 12:39, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

This is the official list of Northwestern University marks: http://www.northwestern.edu/uservices/docs/trademark/NULogoSheet.pdf The old law school seal is no longer in use. IvyLaw (talk) 05:42, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Here is further evidence of the current, Official Seal The old law school seal is no longer in use. IvyLaw (talk) 05:42, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Northwestern Law School.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Northwestern Law School.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 11:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Northwestern Law Rubloff Building.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Northwestern Law Rubloff Building.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 11:40, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Levy Mayer Building.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Levy Mayer Building.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests October 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Wikipedia (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 12:01, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Broken Links

I count 49 broken links in the article, mostly in faculty and alumni, I'm going to clean them up. I'm not deleting any text, just removing the bad links. I'm also adding Michael Goodkin to alumni, which is the reason I came to the page in the first place.

AaCBrown (talk) 15:53, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Proposed update for the "Degree programs" section

{{request edit}}

To provide information on a new degree program, I propose this text be added to the "Degree programs" section:

Master of Science in Law

The Master of Science in Law (MSL) Program launched in the fall of 2014. Designed specifically for professionals with backgrounds in science, technology, engineering, math, and medicine, the MSL program provides focused training in the areas of intellectual property and patent design, business law and entrepreneurship, and regulatory analysis and strategy.

GentlemenDreamer (talk) 23:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

References

Pictures

Please see WP:SANDWICH. These photos are sandwiching the content of this article and would be better placed in a gallery. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 16:03, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Reason for removal

Since I hit "save" before "preview" in my recent edit, here is the explanation for the removal of the large degrees offered sections: WP:UNIGUIDE. Plain. and. simple. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 06:12, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 17 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. The consensus is that there is insufficient evidence presented to support a move at this time. (non-admin closure) — Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 20:30, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

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Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law → Northwestern Pritzker School of Law – Updated official name Jkonworo (talk) 15:31, 17 July 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 21:31, 24 July 2018 (UTC)

• Support per WP:commonname jamacfarlane (talk) 20:55, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support using official name.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:21, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
• Relisting comment. The assertions here have not yet been supported. It's not clear to me that this is the official name; the bottom of the webpage states "©2018 Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law". Perhaps there is evidence of a name change somewhere, but there has not been any evidence presented to show that this is the official name (which we do not necessarily use, per WP:OFFICIAL) or the WP:COMMONNAME in reliable, secondary sources. Is it possible to meet the lower requirement of WP:NAMECHANGES? Dekimasuよ! 21:31, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
• Support - it clearly says "Northwestern Pritzker School of Law" in the big purple circle at the bottom of its official pages. Even if the copyright is in a predecessor name (or is held under a separate name), the big-letter branding supports the change. bd2412 T 02:49, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. This does not actually appear to be the WP:COMMONNAME at all, by more than a 2:1 ratio [1][2]. It looks at first to be the current WP:OFFICIALNAME about which WP cares little. But it's not. It's just marketing branding. If you look at the boilerplate at the bottom of the school's homepage, guess what's there? "Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law". Show us some proof that the legal name of the entity has changed. Otherwise, no move per MOS:TM either: WP doesn't mimic logos and other branding. This also fails WP:PRECISE: the proposed rename is potentially confusing, as it implies there is also, perhaps, another Pritzker School of Law to the southwest, and maybe another due east.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  04:47, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
  • This page says in 2015 "the 156-year-old school is named the Northwestern Pritzker School of Law". The legal name appears to be "Northwestern University" as the law school is part of the whole university, not a separate entity. In any case, as User:SMcCandlish says, WP uses common names not legal names per se. jamacfarlane (talk) 13:08, 28 July 2018 (UTC)
  • As the school only officially became "Pritzkered" in 2015, it is also worth considering whether the WP:COMMONNAME is "Northwestern University Law School" or some similar iteration. Dekimasuよ! 08:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
    • User:Dekimasu, I don't think you can say it's not the common name because it was only changed in 2015. If there's a dispute over whether "Pritzker School of Law" is actually part of the name, an appropriate descriptive article title would be "Northwestern University law school" (i.e. the law school (common noun) of Northwestern University (proper noun)), but I far prefer the original proposal. jamacfarlane (talk) 18:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
      • I'm not making a claim, just noting that evidence of the WP:COMMONNAME hasn't been presented. The previous proper name of the law school was most likely "Northwestern University School of Law" if we go by what the old title was. The move in 2016 appears to have occurred without discussion. Dekimasuよ! 19:08, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. Relisted and we still have absolutely no evidence that the new name has come into common use, in fact the only evidence presented either way so far is that it hasn't, by a large margin. Is it worth relisting again, to see whether a move is justified in terms of WP:NAMECHANGES? It certainly can't be moved on the evidence to date. Andrewa (talk) 04:11, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

• NB. I get over 6 times as many hits for "Northwestern University School of Law" as for either the current title or the proposed title. Dekimasuよ! 19:30, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
• Google Trends also indicates "Northwestern University School of Law" is still the common name. Dekimasuよ! 19:33, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.