Talk:Northern Sydney

Northern Suburbs

I was born at Ryde Hospital, my father was born at Ryde hospital and my family have lived in the Eastwood/West Ryde area for 30 years. WE ARE NOT NORTH SHORIANS and as I added to the article have a distinctly different socio economic group than the north shore, we also recieve the NORTHEN DISTRICT times and are not considered to be part of the north shore by my north shore friends, this area developed as a seperated district to the north shore too. I would also like to add that while the Dundas/Ermington area is on the border it should somewhat be considered as part of our area, like as a border area, up through Carlingford and eastwards of Carlingford north up too west pennant hills and across and up to under Hornsby, then down to the eastern borders of Normanhurst through the national park and bordering at the lane cove river, as the times operates from Ermington I think. i would like to see the references to our area as the north shore abolished from the pages too, thankyou. G Hatten 3:04 am, 23 February 2008 (AEDT)

Central North Region

'Central North Region' is not a recognised region of Sydney. We can't just make new region names for certain parts. If a region name is in general use, then we can create it in wikipedia but we would need a number of references. J Bar (talk) 11:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Central Northern Sydney

Central Northern Sydney and Lower Northern Sydney of Sydney are both legitimate areas of Sydney. This link to the Australian Beureau of Statistics proves it: http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/lookup/2223E45AA4489301CA256F19001460B0?opendocument The suburbs listed as part of this region of Sydney are NOT in the lower north shore/upper north shore as previously stated as the boundary for those regions are everything east of the Lane Cove river (which NONE of these suburbs are). Please do not delete this page, perhaps we could rename it Northern Sydney as a better amalgamation of these two regions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tourombah (talk • contribs) 11:56, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks like a valid reference to me, it is a region reconized by the Australian Government... although i dont live up there i think i have heard something about that before... anyways the reference looks solid so perhaps just a rename would be required to specify.AnnaJGrant (talk) 12:01, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Here is one more source: [1] Here they state these suburbs to be the "Inner North" and the "North Subregion". I strongly feel that a name change to "Northern Sydney region", "Northern subregion" or the "Northern Suburbs (based on the train line)" is better and a fair compromise. Suburbs like Westleigh, Thornleigh etc are not Upper north shore. Ryde, Macquarie park etc are not Lower North shore. My point is to highlight this discrepency as saying these suburbs are part of the North shore is totally false (more false than saying they are part of the Central North. A new grouping for such suburbs (and others listed in the article) is needed and this is what I tried to acheive with the sources I have quoted. Thank you for your understanding and I hope we can get to a suitable outcome.

I think Northern Suburbs (Sydney) is a more appropriate for a region name. I'll do some research too and hopefully we can find a name that is general use for that whole region. We've got to get it right from the start because a lot of articles, templates and categories are linked to these region names. When we create something new, we have to go back an update everything else too. I'll revert those suburb articles for now, just until we decide on a more appropriate region name but I think the nest suggestion so far has been 'Northern Suburbs (Sydney)'. You could move this mage to the new name and make some changes. Cheers.J Bar (talk) 12:21, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Northern Suburbs

I've moved the page to the Northern Suburbs (Sydney). Suggest we emulate existing Eastern suburbs page. I'll make the other changes to templates/categories and subburb articles, when I get a chance.J Bar (talk) 12:42, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

sourcing

I havent sourced all my facts yet and I am going to sleep for the night. Please do not delete what is on the article if possible. I have gotten some info from here http://www.censusdata.abs.gov.au/ABSNavigation/prenav/ViewData?&action=404&documentproductno=10560&documenttype=Details&tabname=Details&areacode=10560&issue=2006&producttype=Community%20Profiles&&producttype=Community%20Profiles&textversion=true&navmapdisplayed=true&breadcrumb=PLD&&collection=Census&period=2006&producttype=Community%20Profiles&#Expanded%20Community%20Profil and here http://www.metrostrategy.nsw.gov.au/dev/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=81&languageId=1&contentId=556 Thank you Tourombah (talk) 15:10, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

You can't use this reference to say what you want it to say. All it shows is the way the ABS classifies its statistics data into regions in Sydney. It is not a reference for classifying the regions in Sydney and cannot be used as that. The mainstream media use the terms "North Shore" and "Hills District" depending on Local Government area, and the term "Northern Districts" is not used (apart from the local newspaper); the term "Northern Suburbs" is far too general to refer to anything useful - it may as well refer to anything north of the Parramatta River and south of the Hawkesbury. I know it might sound weird to think that suburbs such as Epping belong as "North Shore", but that is how they are referred to. We have already had this discussion two years ago, and I'm not up for another one to go over the same material (see here). The other sources on the page show nothing at all to prove that the term even exists. Touromba, you need to either find a source backing this up (a proper one that actually proves the point), or leave the regions as they are and develop the pages without resorting to made up names of regions. Your page and edits may be in good faith but if you are only editing on Wikipedia to insert your own names then that is being disruptive. JRG (talk) 05:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

This is a well known term...The upper north shores' border is the lane cove river- anything west IS another region. And the Lower north shore is a very select group of suburbs. The Northern region/districts/suburbs are good names for this region (as both the train line AND a local paper use this name- as do residents of these suburbs). Even domain.com.au have a search option called Northern suburbs! It IS a region- how many more sources can I give? [2] I am not going to push this any further- I have put effort into this but if you want to delete it just go ahead. What you will write though (Thornleigh, Normanhurst as UNS, Ryde and Gladesville as LNS) will be MORE false than considering these suburbs as being in the northern suburbs/district/region! There IS a region between the north shore and the hills district and I have proved it with the 3 or more sources given. Tourombah (talk) 08:11, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Do NOT delete this

Dont delete this page- even news.com.au uses the term Northern Suburbs! http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23377112-5001021,00.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.219.205 (talk) 11:01, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I second the DO NOT DELETE post. I personally live in the Northern Suburbs of Sydney (in Normanhurst)and my wife gre up in Ryde, and we can tell you that this term is used all the time by residents in this region. If you ask anyone here what region of Sydney they live in, atleast 90% would say "northern region/suburbs". We are certianly NOT in the Upper north shore or in the Hills. Do not delete this article- The area exists . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.26.204 (talk) 00:52, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Central North vs Northern Suburbs

There appears to be a bit of confusion in some of the comments on this talk page. Note that this is a talk page for Northern Suburbs (Sydney) but there's also a redirect from the former Central North Region (Sydney) talk page. As far as I can see, there's only minimal dispute regarding Northern Suburbs as opposed to the term Central North, which appears to have few supporters (and I'm on the side of it not being a valid and recognised term for a Sydney region). -- Rob.au (talk) 09:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Northern Suburbs has been accepted by a number of editors as a fair dinkum region of Sydney. As a result, the Central North page has been renamed/moved to Northern Suburbs. It is widely agreed that since these are general terms and the regions are not clearly defined, then many of teh suburbs could be part of two regions. Just like Hurstville can be part of the St George region and the Southern Sydney region. However, I'd like to suggest we exercise caution in regards to changes to suburb articles. I suggest that we don't change too many of the suburb articles unless there's a genuine dispute about where these suburbs lie. For example, there's plenty of evidence to show that Hunters Hill is part of the Lower North Shore and less evidence that people consider it part of the Northern Suburbs. The opposite might be true Macquarie Park though. I would rather see an addition of an extra region to a suburb article, rather than moving a suburb to a new region. Cheers. J Bar (talk) 05:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Suburbs Which Are Definitely Not In The Region

I have cleaned up the page somewhat, suburbs like Dundas, Carlingford, Cherrybrook etc. are either part of the Hills District or Western Sydney. Likewise suburbs such as Riverview and Linley are located on the North Shore. Please keep this article tidy from now on.

Whilst i agree with you on riverview, linley and cherrybrook, i would classify carlingford and dundas as part of the area, or atleast border areas. The demographic of people, the way people describe where they are and the way the areas are layed out correspond to the culture and area that this article describes. I live on the western boundary of eastwood (next to carlingford, ermington and dundas) and certainly the epping/macquarie/eastwood areas are usually termed as the major regional centres reflective of these suburbs opposed to parramatta or hills districts--Hatgreg (talk) 15:15, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Hornsby

I for one believe that the north shore ends at Wahroonga. The region is associated with wealth, and there is a significant difference in culture between Hornsby and Wahroonga. I think it would be more appropriate to consider Hornsby a part of the northern suburbs rather than the north shore because of it's middle class status. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Threelastwords87 (talk • contribs) 23:52, 15 August 2010 (UTC) (Threelastwords87 (talk) 23:53, 15 August 2010 (UTC))

I Hesitantly Agree With this, Much of the Hornsby Council Area Seems to also correspond and the statement about the demographics is true. However it is a bit of a mixed region, with many from the upper north shore identifying it as a major locality within their area. Though it does share the fact there are many young families who aspire to end up on the north shore establishing themselves in these areas. Perhaps, as With the north shore Article, one could Differentiate within the Article Between the lower Northern Districts (Ryde-Eastwood) and the Upper Northern Districts (Hornsby)--RugbyFuture (talk) 13:03, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Rename to Northern District

I advocate renaming the page Northern District (Sydney) as this is the name of the local paper and is less ambiguous than Northern Sydney, which can be used as a descriptor of the whole region in sydney north of the parramatta river. Also, the Northern Suburbs name is and has been used by the Rugby Union team representing the lower north shore since before World War one. thoughts?--RugbyFuture (talk) 14:37, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Nobody ever refers to this area as Northern District. Northern Suburbs is a recognised name that is used by many institutions and businesses in the area. Just like North Shore and Northern Beaches. It makes no sense to change it to Northern District. J Bar (talk) 06:42, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

The Northern District Times? It's not as clear a name as you might think in differentiating the area from the general Northern Region of Sydney. For instance The Rugby teams and I am completely unawares of any local institutions or businesses of any note who use this in their names. Certainly the TAFE uses Northern Sydney institute, but this institute of TAFE spans the complete band across the North Shore, same with the Hospital Zone. I'll take your word for it, but I wouldn't mind keeping the debate continual, with proven records of this name.--121.216.8.186 (talk) 14:51, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

References

The article has practically no references. Except for the first three that I've recently added, the others serve very little purpose in terms of verification. Reference [4] goes to a real estate site with no appearance of relevancy. The others serve to reference four of the many suburbs listed. That's it. I've added Refimprove as a result.(Red Plummer 04:03, 23 April 2013 (UTC))

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Proposal to Rewrite Article

Hello. After much research of this page and the discussion board (which had some personal opinions without any citation or supportive references, some which were emotional), and recognising the warning mark for it to be edited with more citation, it’s come to my attention this Wikipedia page provides some confusing and conflicting information that easily confuses the public and goes below Wikipedia’s standards. Information on this page is also very minimal, and the only sources found to call this “region” of sydney “The Northern Suburbs” were provided from a newspaper name, which isn’t a viable source for the name of a region. Much of this region is also, with references to support it, part of the “Hills District”, “Greater Western Sydney” and “North Shore” regions. The only suburbs that would be questionable and are rather usually referred to simply as North would be the following listed: -Ryde -West Ryde -Denistone -Denistone East -Denistone West -Eastwood -Putney -Meadowbank All other suburbs have sources to claim they’re part of distinctive regions. I also must stress that having a page named “Northern Suburbs (Sydney)” should have a body of text to describe the entire northern side of sydney and it’s distinctive regions, which already have their own pages with viable information well resourced such as the “North Shore” and the “Forest District”. “Northern Beaches“ is distantly east of northern sydney and suburbs in that region are almost always referred to as “Northern Beaches” or occasionally, “North East”.

I’m looking into editing this page to include all suburbs across the northern region of Sydney, to avoid confusing readers, and add the different regions in a section named “Unique Districts” or something rather similar. After all, these regions are all classified as “North” and to have a body page to describe it all together will create a much better understanding when studying the suburbs of Sydney. This does not mean removing the pages of “North Shore” or “Forest District”, rather having a home base page for those articles.

I’d also like to stress that while many tend to edit these pages with personal opinion without sources, we must remember that much of Sydney’s unique regions have changed greatly; for instance the North Shore use to only be referred to suburbs as far north as Gordon up until the last century, we now see suburbs as far north as Hornsby and as far North West as Beecroft being referred to as the North Shore, as the term is known internationally to be “A place north of the shore”. Sydney’s Hills District as another example, is a new region which was once only known as the “North West”.

Before I make any of these changes, I’d like to read other ideas and cited knowledge that anyone may want to share to better this page for future readers.

Cheers. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 10:22, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I did forget to mention the title of this page would also be subject to change to “Northern Sydney”. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 10:34, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree but I expect that posting this here will get very little exposure. I would suggest that you post a pointer to this on Wikipedia:Australian Wikipedians' notice board to get a much wider exposure. I also notice that this is not thew first time something of this nature has been discussed some years ago. Personally I have no knowledge of the area. Fleet Lists (talk) 10:45, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, and thank you for suggesting that. Yes, the page has had a lot of personal debate in the talk section. Very messy information. Thanks again. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 10:59, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

Rewrite has been completed. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 08:19, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

You've butchered this page. Northern Suburbs here refers to the region west of Lane Cove river, East of Parramatta and North of the Parramatta River which are distinct to the North Shore and Northern Beaches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.73.176.203 (talk) 02:48, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello anonymous user, thanks for your comment. I’m not certain with what you mean by “you’ve butchered this page”. You mention that “Northern Suburbs” is distinct from the North Shore and Northern Beaches, however the “Northern Suburbs” isn’t a well resourced name to describe any group of Suburbs west of Lane Cove river. Please refer to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians%27_notice_board where this was discussed. This page was rewritten to give clarity to the entire Northern Sydney corridor, and also gives insight to what certain parts of this region are known as, whether it be the “North Shore”, “Northern Beaches”, “Forest District” or something other terms given to some areas of this region, as mentioned in the article. This article originally demonstrated a small area of Northern Sydney with almost no resource. This was likely created due to suburbs such as those around Ryde not given a definitive region that it belongs to. This does not mean we create a made up term such as “Northern Suburbs”, which is a generalised term used for all of Northern Sydney for simplification. This article now provides more resources insight into Northern Sydney, and all suburbs North of Port Jackson are given unique articles to describe what they are in accordance to Wikipedia’s standards. The pages for the terms used for some of these suburbs still exist and are still valid for some further insight. Please check the following; North Shore (Sydney), Northern Beaches, Forest District (Sydney). HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 03:01, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

I do tend to agree with anonymous user. - noting that Im probably one of the "emotional" cases you referred to, this page is now effectively orphaned as a general page about nprthern sydney while referred to the history of the northern district extensively. Probably a better choice would be to allow this page to be deleted and creating a new "northern sydney" page referring to the whole stretch between the hills and beaches. Additionally with the pages that have been created for the regions of sydney - northern beaches, north shore, hills. parra region etc this is placed wrongly in all the templates and sandboxes for the regions now - I would suggest an edit of these to remove this region you do not believe exists, or alternatively a different placement. I would like to point out domain.com.au utilises northern suburbs (NSW) to refer to the region west of the lane cove river and west of the hills district and parramatta region and this suggests the lexicon of the northern surburbs (inner north west) region. I actualy believe this page is now orphaned in regards to the regions of sydney grouping. I would also love to hear, based on the evidence at hand what you think the suburbs surrounding ryde, epping etc are classed as, as these then belong in these other pages. RugbyFuture (talk) 01:08, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

G’day RugbyFuture, thanks for bringing this up in discussion. The reasons for this pages alterations was due to not enough references to describe such a region. The previous name for the line of suburbs you’re referring to was “Northern Suburbs” which didn’t have enough supportive references to keep as an article. This was discussed on the Australian Wikipedia - Australian Places Discussion Board a while back as the page created a lot of confusion and had not enough citation to remain. The suburbs such as Ryde, Epping, Hunters Hill etc all still are known as part of Northern Sydney (another term for Northern Suburbs). The term “Northern Suburbs” suggests all suburbs north of Sydney CBD, so this page was created to describe all suburbs between the Hills District and, while including, the beaches. Please see references and history that support this.

It was also brought up at one point that the Northern Beaches and North Shore (Sydney) articles would be removed, and that all information in regards to those terms would be bonded together into this article, however that idea was scrapped.

Also, every suburb that you are referring to has it’s own definition and supportive reference in their own articles. For instance; Epping is part of the Northern Sydney Region, and is sometimes referred to as part of the North Shore. Note that “North Shore” is more of an amorphous term used, not a a definitive legal term. Many references would describe the “North Shore” as only from the harbour bridge up to Chatswood, and only as far west as Lane Cove, while suburbs north of there are often simply referred to as the “North-West”.

Real estate pages all suggest different opinions, some referring to Ryde as part of the Lower North Shore, some referring to Epping as part of the Upper North Shore or even North-West.

As you can see, the confusion was simply cleared up and a compromise was made with this article and it’s related articles such as the North Shore being a lightly used term as simply a suburb “north of the shore”

I hope this helps your understanding of these changes to the article and the related articles.

Kind regards HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 01:33, 23 December 2020 (UTC)