Talk:No More the Fool

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by BorgQueen (talk) 11:10, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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... that Elkie Brooks's hit "No More the Fool" was originally written for Kim Wilde?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Satoko Kishimoto
- Comment: The article should be long enough already (roughly 1,500–1,550 characters), but I will expand it a bit more tomorrow.

Created by Moscow Connection (talk). Self-nominated at 23:57, 10 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/No More the Fool; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

Not really a big fan of the hook since it is reliant on names that not be familiar to all readers (for what it's worth, I do know who Wilde is thanks to Kids in America, but I can't assure that most readers are familiar with her). Can a different angle be proposed here? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 16:10, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I will expand the article tomorrow or the day after tomorrow and will try to find another interesting fact about the song to use for the DYK. The problem is that I could find only one book that I could use. And there isn't much in it that I haven't already put into the article. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moscow Connection: Okay. Just note here on the nomination page once those have been accomplished. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:53, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moscow Connection: Any updates on this? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:32, 1 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Tomorrow, I promise. Sorry for the delay. --Moscow Connection (talk) 20:16, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- @Narutolovehinata5: Could you maybe propose something else as a hook?
  I think that he current hook is interesting. And I can't think of anything better.
  Btw, I've been trying to find more sources to use, but I can't find anything. And I couldn't find a single source that would say what the song was about. I even tried searching for a source saying this song was a ballad (it is ballad, isn't it?), and nothing.
  I can ask for help at the music project talk page, maybe they will be able to find something. And to come up with a better hook.--Moscow Connection (talk) 08:20, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to be frank here: with the current content, I don't think the article is a right fit for DYK. There's not much in the article that seems to be intriguing to a non-specialist audience, especially if readers don't know who either name is (I personally only recognize Wilde). Looking at the article again, I think the only possible option that could still be used might revolve around this particular part: "I’ve been writing this song for Kim Wilde," said Ballard and showed them "No More the Fool". Brook's husband and Mike Heap were instantly "blown away". "That’s it!," said Jordan when Ballard stopped singing. "But I’ve written this for Kim Wilde," said Ballard protestingly. "No you haven’t. You’ve written it for Elkie Brooks," replied Jordan. Basically, a rewording of the original hook, but with more emphasis on the quote and Ballard's protest. But otherwise, I'm also out of ideas. In any case, the article does meet the technical DYK requirements including a lack of paraphrasing, and a QPQ has been done. I'll assume good faith on the sourcing as I can't access the sources. The article is technically eligible for DYK, but its lack of a suitable hook (proposed or possible) is the sticking point here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:39, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: Yes, some pages are omitted from the Google Books preview. But you can try googling „"Finding My Voice: My Autobiography" site:idoc.pub“. And maybe, just maybe, you'll find something. :-) --Moscow Connection (talk) 10:05, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll just ask for help at the music project. The song is very famous and it's a pity I wasn't able to find more information about it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 10:05, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have asked for help here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music#Any help appreciated at Template:Did you know nominations/No More the Fool. --Moscow Connection (talk) 10:50, 10 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1 ... that Russ Ballard didn't want to give the song "No More the Fool" to Elkie Brooks, because he wrote it for Kim Wilde? --Moscow Connection (talk) 11:54, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's getting warmer, but I think the "protested" wording like in the quote would make it more intriguing regardless of reader familiarity with the names involved. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:46, 15 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moscow Connection: Ping in case you missed the above comment. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 08:20, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! I'll attend to it tomorrow or on Monday. i've catched a cold and can't really focus. --Moscow Connection (talk) 19:02, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure thing. Just try to propose a new wording as soon as possible as this has been stuck for a while. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:21, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Moscow Connection: Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:12, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's best that this be marked for closure; two months is more than enough time to workshop and agree on a hook. Unless something can be agreed on quickly (as in in the next day or two before someone closes this), of course. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 20:46, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've left MC a talk page message. If there's no more progress then maybe closure is the only option sadly. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:45, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]