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Archive 1

Talk Section

The entry says "Also many argue that there are many categories that ordinary children don't care or know about like Best Hip-Hop Artist." Who are these 'many'? Most kids I know care more about hip-hop than "extreme sports". This is all subjective. SIGN YOUR COMMENTS WITH FOUR TILDES. Yes, I agree. Spongefrog, (talk to me, or else) 19:11, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Most Blimps Won

Misinformation about who has won the most blimps. SpongeBob has won a total of 11: 8 for Favorite Cartoon and 3 for Favorite Video Game. Making him one ahead of Will Smith (10). Should be revised in the second paragraph of the main article. Source: http://www.nick.com/news/kca-2012-25-fun-facts.html User:JonnyFreds —Preceding undated comment added 17:08, 27 March 2012 (UTC).

Big Ballot

Does anybody have any useful information on The Big Ballot from 1986? User:TMC1982

1987

There wasn't a Kids' Choice Awards show in 1987 as far as I know. Where are your sources that prove this otherwise?User:TMC1982

-- Nickelodeon held the last Big Ballot in 1987, the Kids' Choice Awards name wasn't used till '88 http://www.nick.com/news/kca-2012-25-fun-facts.html -> Fact #16 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonnyfreds (talk • contribs) 17:04, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

FYI

I went ahead and removed the "Defense of Nickelodeon" portion of the article--I assume it was some young fan that put that in there. User:SydH

Controversy section

Most of this section was a series of allegations made with no sources. It was also full of weasel words using phrases like "it is alleged" and "many people say". If this material is reintrodued it needs proper cited sources for the allegations and it needs to say exactly who makes each allegation. Otherwise it looks like a set of personal opinions, some of which border on the defamatory. Thanks, Gwernol 15:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

The section does make many statements with no sources. If a source for a statement is impossible to find, it should be deleted. --DarkAdonis255 19:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree that much of the section should be deleted. The allegations that Dakota Fanning won in 2007 because of a "rigged vote", just because she is close in age to Nickelodeon's main demographic is practically impossible to prove. One could argue she won because "Charlotte's Web" is a popular children's book. Unless someone can add sources, I think we should delete most of the section. 70.12.30.201 01:58, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

No, I'm pretty sure it was rigged considering she was up against actresses like Halle Berry.(I'm the one who wrote the "rigged vote " statement as well as the one before it.)

"Dylan was rumored to have viciously attacked Cole and knocked him unconscious for several minutes. Cole came to, and was reported saying "I'm never making another episode (of Suite Life) again!"" First of all, I am almost certain that did not happen, and if it did, it does not belong on this article, anyways. Tsears 5:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Rosie

Does anyone know why Rosie O'Donnell stopped hosting? I mean, she was the host for as long as I could remember while growing up and watching Nickelodeon. I mean, the KCA has either seriously declined in quality, or kids today are a lot stupider than the kids while I was growing up. Justin Timberlake is hosting this year? What the heck? I just think that despite all the problems with Rosie nowdays, she did a better job hosting than any of the recent hosts, even Mike Meyers, I'm sorry Mike!!!! Anyway, anyone else have any comments? Can anyone answer my question about why she stopped? Thanks. Lamename3000

I heard a rumor (not that I'm saying it's true, I'm saying it could be true) that the reason of her not hosting is because of her sexuality. Uber Cuber 03:06, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The reason Justin hosted 2007 was promotion of Shrek The Third. The reported reason Rosie is NOT hosting is due to her contract with The View and ABC, which supposedly prevents her from being a host or guest host on any other network. I didnt want ot add this to the article becaus i cannot rememeber where i read it, so i cannot properly source it.

Rosie O'Donnell hasn't hosted the KCAs since 2003, long before she showed up on The View. Personally, besides her sexuality coming into the equation (I don't care what anybody says, it's awfully awkward to have an openly gay person host a children's/family friendly event on national television), I also think that Nickelodeon simply wanted to go into a different direction (in order to keep the show from becoming stagnant). Rosie had been involved with the KCAs (as a host) consecutively since 1996. It made logical sense for her to stop hosting around 2002-2003 considering her nationally syndicated talk show ended around this time. TMC1982 1:58 a.m., 27 July 2007 (UTC)

movie actress

who were the other nominees for favorite movie actress for 2007,and what movies were they in? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.239.117.215 (talk) 01:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

  • Halle Berry: X-Men:The Last Stand
  • Keira Khightly: Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
  • Sarah Jessica Parker: Failure to Launch
  • Dakota Fanning: Charlotte's Web

I'm going to have to agree with the rigged vote guy. All the other choices were way better. Also, they were in better movies.

Who cares, Dakota Fanning was crap. Keria Knighty should have won. You Are Ooglay 17:26, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Yeah...last year my cousin said spongebob won for something "only because it's on nick!". Kid friendly cr.....71.106.128.213 20:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Awards in these sort of things sometimes go to actors in extremely bad films (eg. From Justin to Kelly won like 2 awards in teen choice awards). I think kids just aren't good at recognising horrible acting, or voting for decient films, they just vote for whatever film they've seen, even if it's bad. Either that or thy don't know its bad. Anyone know what I'm talking about? So i don't think it's rigged. Wait a minute. Wasn't Charlotte's Web a Nickelodeon Film? It was wasn't it. OK, I'm going to say it's rigged.
P.S. Sorry I'm a year late. Spongefrog, (talk to me, or else) 19:07, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

"Justin's Mistake"

If you notice when Justin is revealing the ways of the breaking the slime barrier, he said "d". Ofcourse it was a joke if you notice his facial expressions. You Are Ooglay 18:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I barely noticed the mistake...Syarasu 04:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)Syarasu
Good for you, but it wasnt a mistake. Look at his facial expression, he did it on purpose. You Are Ooglay 03:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
What did he do. What do you mean? Tell me! Spongefrog, (talk to me, or else) 19:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Hosts Table

there is a hedline saying "hosts" and it's empty because the list at the very bottom at the page, I want to fix it, but I might mess up.71.106.128.213 20:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Asterisks next to slimed people

What are the asterisks (*) next to the names of people who were slimed? There needs to be mentioned in the article a reason for the asterisks or they shouldn't be there at all. --Valley2city₪‽ 03:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Read lower, it says they were caught in the blast, meaning they were not supposed to be slimed but were anyway. You Are Ooglay 03:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Burp title?

Umm did the title catch your eyes that it looks very similar to WWE's World Heavyweight Championship? Because i looked closely and i think it was just with the Blue Nick plate covering the WWE Gold plate. ---Belevsquad 05:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

hmm..... It obvisously does, I'll add it.--Degenerate-Y (talk) 01:38, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Controversial nominations/hosts section

This section contains all unsourced claims. The claim that Keanu Reeves and Jason Biggs where controversial presenters for having stared in R-rated films needs to be sourced. Secondly, the claim that Green Day's album American Idiot was controversial is not supported by the article on the album or what I remember when it was first released. While it does have political overtones I don't believe it stirred much controversy as far as I remember. If Green Day and Justin Timberlake where indeed controversial winners for having "Parental Advisory" labels on their albums then this should be sourced. --67.101.103.113 09:36, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

It was restored. I've removed because much of this is covered by Biographies of living persons policy. Unsourced questionable claims about living persons are not permitted anywhere on Wikipedia. --Tony 22:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Who won the Kid's Choice Awards 2008 sweepstakes

Should I delete this? It's blank 216.254.18.209 (talk) 00:40, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Advertisements

Could an admin please block or warn the IP that keeps adding advertisement-like sections to this page? thanks 216.254.18.209 (talk) 16:52, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Low Quality Crap

HAs anyone noticed that the KCAs last like 2 hours but they only give out like 3 awards because of all the crud they add in. And most of the jokes on the show are pretty pathetic.99.149.118.183 (talk) 22:43, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

  • But the show is popular with the fans, making it very hard to obtain tickets. Even celebrities had to pull strings to get tickets for their kids to see it live, not to mention those kids volunteered to be up front and be slimmed. Ucla90024 (talk) 22:48, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but aren't they just wanting to be on TV? Not that it matters. I actually agree with 99.149.118.183. They are just a load of crap, and some of the award "choices" are absolutely diabolical. Spongefrog, (talk to me, or else) 19:09, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

The image Image:Kcalogo2008.PNG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
  • That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --01:44, 18 September 2008 (UTC) Ryan has a pet elephant —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.105.192 (talk) 01:13, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

 Done A link to this from the image page will resolve this problem.  Dylanlip  (talk) 23:01, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Interviews

Lots of celebriteis were interviewed. Not just one.Jeneral28 (talk) 20:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The blimps

Now that Nickelodeon's logo is no longer the ever-versatile splat, I am willing to guess that the Blimp will also be retired, as it is no longer in keeping with the network's image. Any word as to its replacement, or if I am wrong on this count? Tenk you veddy much. --Wack'd Talk to me! • Admire my handiwork! 02:31, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Most awards

Pauley Pavilion

  • "Due to renovations at the Pauley Pavillion that will begin later in 2010, the 2011 awards will take place in another venue; the next possible time the KCA's would be held at the Pauley Pavillion would be in either 2012 or 2013." Not completely true. Basketball will be played for the 2010-11 season. Bband11th (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Award Ceremony Numbering

The page for each award ceremony is named by the year it is in, not its number in the order of the ceremonies. As far as I can tell, most award ceremonies' pages use the latter method (for example, there is a page for the 83rd Academy Awards, not the 2011 Academy Awards). I think that all of the pages for the award ceremonies each year should be moved to reflect this naming method. Alphius (talk) 01:05, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Update content

I know that as of the time that I am posting this (Feb. 24, 2013) that this year's winners haven't been announced yet, but voting is open. Can someone please update the page so that is shows what categories are available for voting this year? Thanks 99.38.244.81 (talk) 18:18, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

2013 Kids' Choice Awards. There, it's been done for weeks already. It won't go on this page because this is about the awards show itself over the years. Nate • (chatter) 22:57, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 24 March 2013

Now that I have seen the 2013 Kids' Choice Awards, I have the information you can add to this page.

Slimed Celebrities: - Pitbull - Dwight Howard - Neil Patrick Harris - Sandra Bullock - Amanda Seyfried - Josh Hutcherson - Dwayne Johnson - Nick Cannon - Josh Duhamel


A few more things: - In History, you should add that in the 2013 show, they did use traditional envelopes instead of some wacky events. - In Awards, you should add that there was no Big Green Help/Big Help Award in the 2013 show. - Also, there were no slime stunts in the 2013 show. 24.91.176.34 (talk) 16:37, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Mdann52 (talk) 12:15, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

2013 Article Mistake

Noticed it says "Fairly Odd Parents" Aired a new episode in the 9:30 slot, This is incorrect. The new Fairly Odd Parents episode aired BEFORE the KCA's at 7:30pm eastern. The Series Premire of the new "Monsters VS Aliens" Show was in the 9:30pm slot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hillsy099 (talk • contribs) 19:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Corrected, you are correct. The FOP pre-show premiere should have gone as not needed info here. Thank you. Nate • (chatter) 22:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

2014 Kids Choice Awards

I already saved 2014 Kids' Choice Awards on March 29, 2014. Mark Wahlberg will host a next year's show to promote Transformers 4. Could you please save it for next year? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.24.84.2 (talk) 10:27, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Absolutely not. Guess why the article is semi-protected? Because of incorrect nonsense like this for an awards show not even in anybody's mind yet. It isn't even Labor Day yet; trust me, they aren't even thinking about it. Knock it off with the false guesses. Nate • (chatter) 19:54, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

New in 2015

  • Per their press release, only Four new categories were introduced: Favorite Talent Competition Show, Favorite Family TV Show, Most Addicting Game, and Favorite New Artist. So why it looks like more than 4? Ucla90024 (talk) 05:03, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Explanation of edits

To explain my recent edits, I will explain it here because it will not all fit in an edit summary.

I removed the source after the awards show because "it already happened." This is based on the other shows listed, which had no source, even though one can source it easily. An editor reverted it, stating everything should be sourced. By that logic, then the list should be removed for being unsourced. That's likely not going to happen, so there's no point in having a source when all the other shows don't have one.

I removed the source to remain consistent (which is not the same of "making it look better") with the other shows listed. It's either no sources for consistency, or all sources for consistency. The editor who reverted me also stated that everything needs to be sourced; by that logic, the entire list should be removed for being unsourced. That is unlikely to happen, so I'll just remove the source, for simple consistency reasons. Pyrotle {T/C} 19:14, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

It's never been acceptable to remove a good source from an article, no matter what. No matter if it happened, we have to leave the breadcrumb there as proof that it was scheduled at that time; this article was in an unacceptable state for years where it was 'fine' to remove sources because the only ones editing were unchecked network fans and sockpuppets with an agenda; I'd go back and add the sources for each year, but I have more to do in my life than add what followed this ceremony every single year. Thanks to semi-protection, this article is now better established. I am re-adding the source and expect it to remain because it's good policy; 'it's already happened' is not a good enough reason to remove a source, and as I pointed out, the years in television articles are a perfect example, as we never remove good sources from that article. Nate • (chatter) 02:17, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Pretty much what Mrschimpf said, with a bit of emphasis that it's a non-negotiable point, Pyrotle: I typically block editors that repeat such edits after having it explained to them.—Kww(talk) 02:43, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

All right. I see what I have done wrong, and I apologize.

However, may I ask if this compromise would work: if I find a reliable source that lists the lead-out programs for all the programs on the list. There's likely one out there somewhere, and if I do find one, that can be used as the source for the list. Would it work, and would I be allowed to do it?Pyrotle {T/C} 02:59, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

It would be a great source to find. I'm not certain why you find multiple citations to be objectionable, though. It helps protect against link rot.—Kww(talk) 04:22, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Except I don't. I just removed the source for consistency reasons. If you want to put more sources in, then do so. But anyways, I'll still try to find a single source listing all lead-out programs. Pyrotle {T/C} 12:33, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Awards table

The table doesn't fit on smaller screens and it would be also much easier to understand if it was written using prose rather than a giant table. nyuszika7h (talk) 22:03, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Or perhaps even a simplified table listing the award names and the years would be better than the current state. nyuszika7h (talk) 22:11, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately the way screens are going these days pixel depth is only getting larger, both on desktop and mobile screens. We're mostly working in 1980x1080 screens these days; the days where 800x600 was the norm are long over. And although I loathe the table because it's so complicated it's easily vandalizable by IP bouncers, conversion to prose would create paragraphs upon paragraphs of text. Finally, there's a "think of the children" argument; the grid as-is is at least understandable by them, and converting it to text would defeat the purpose of helping them understand the topic. Nate • (chatter) 00:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
@Mrschimpf: Not everyone has a 1920x1080 screen, it doesn't fit on my 1600x900 screen. Maybe prose isn't the best which is why I suggested another alternative (I'll show you what I mean), but anyway, yeah, it needs sourcing too. nyuszika7h (talk) 09:37, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

The awards table is terrible, it is mess. That it is an awkward size for some readers is only a symptom of a bigger problems, what is is supposed to mean? There are many things that could be done to improve related the table and the related prose. What important information is the table trying to say to readers anyway? If it is important to say that only three awards have been issued every year since the Awards began then maybe that should be restated clearly as prose. The table might be better split by decade, since so many new awards were only created in the last decade (or maybe not, it is a suggestion). Maybe awards that have only been issued a few times could be split off into a separate table. Maybe the table should be further down the article? Also a blank (or other empty indicator) would be better for the cases of awards that didn't previously exist, and to then use the "No" indicator only when the award first exists and is then not given out for a particular year after that.
I hope someone will give some serious thought to what the point of the table is supposed to be and what it is trying help people understand about the Awards and try to reorganize it accordingly, because at the moment it is either doing a bad job of saying what was it was intended to say or has failed to say anything interesting. -- 109.79.78.174 (talk) 05:04, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

I tried to put in prose what I thought was one of the key points of the table, namely that only 3 award categories have been given out every year since the awards began. Unfortunately another editor (probably distracted by my snarky edit summary) didn't seem to understand the intent of my edit. The table needs a lot of work (or deletion). -- 109.78.206.105 (talk) 14:17, 24 November 2019 (UTC)

Sliming in 2016

Post KCA timeslots

Whatever happend the the section named Post KCA Timeslots? ColeS120203 (talk) 15:12, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

It was removed as unsourced and unrelated to the ceremony itself, which I would have to agree with; if it exists it should be in its own article, but said article wouldn't even get past a draft stage in reality. Nate • (chatter) 21:11, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Nickelodeon Kids Choice Awards 2017

The nominees were announced and this page needs to be created. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.174.133.56 (talk) 19:37, 8 February 2017 (UTC)

Yeah can someone just create the Page already? The Nominees were already announced and the Award show is coming up in a few weeks.

"1993" Kids' Choice Awards

A promo with Brain Austin Green and Tori Spelling, who are claimed to have hosted the 1993 KCA's say that the ceremony airs Saturday November 14th. But there's no Saturday November 14th in 1993. But there is in 1992. Also, the Nickkcapress says that they co-hosted in 1992. So the "1993" award is actually the 1992 award, and the one we're calling the 1992 award doesn't exist.

So I suggest deleting the 1992 page and renaming the 1993 page: "1992 Kids' Choice Awards" Jon23812 (talk) 18:22, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

That WP:SOURCE is wholly ineligible (same as all the other Nick fanblogs). Frankly they should be doing better things with their time than creating a conspiracy theory about the date of a children's award ceremony, and I get the feeling the 1993 ceremony did exist, but was probably recorded for a later date (I love how they claim "September 7, 1993" was a Tuesday and it couldn't air then, forgetting that videotape is a thing). We're not changing anything based on a fanblog. Nate • (chatter) 03:28, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
That's not a fanblog, it's an official Nickelodeon page, and in case you missed it, I also linked a video which is obviously states that the award ceremony that was hosted by Brain Austin Green and Tori Spelling were hosted live on Saturday, November 14th. Now if you take a look at the 1993 calendar, November 14th does not fall on a Saturday. But November 14th does fall on a Saturday in 1992, so that has to be the actual 1992 ceremony. Jon23812 (talk) 04:13, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Even if it is an official Nick site, a 'did you know' page provided by the network is ineligible as a primary source, so it does not matter either way. You're welcome to pursue the research yourself as to whether the 1993 ceremony took place. Nate • (chatter) 08:58, 19 February 2017 (UTC)

Ron Jones: Slime stunt 2007

Slime stunt 2007: Bungee jumper Ron Jones wasn't born in 1934. *lol* The real Ron Jones is a stuntman. Please delete wrong link --RangerDU (talk) 07:11, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

Make a page about the 2019 awards now?

We know they will be on March 23 (the official site for them just came out) and we know how the logo looks like. Colgatepony234 (talk) 16:43, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Not until nominations are out. Protection is up to prevent a page from being created too fast and Gaubucho and friends from having their fun with fake hosts and nominations. Blame them for this mess we must go through every year now. Nate • (chatter) 22:38, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

"1993 Kids' Choice Awards" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect 1993 Kids' Choice Awards. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 February 27#1993 Kids' Choice Awards until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Magitroopa (talk) 23:24, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Presenter listings

Hoping to generate some discussion from this... would love some sort of uniformity among the separate KCA ceremony articles, specifically regarding the presenters/appearances sections.

For some of the different examples we currently have:

  • 2002, 2005, 2007 - list who presented what category (not using tables)
  • 2008, 2016-2019, 2021 - list who presented what category (using tables)
  • 2004, 2009-2015, 2021 - just list celebrities who appeared/presented
  • Most of the earlier years with no section for this whatsoever

I feel like one 'main way' should be discussed/determined, and all past/future articles can follow the same format. Not entirely sure, but I think just listing who appeared/presented (without categories) would be perfectly fine- listing the specific order and who presented what seems like it might be WP:INDISCRIMINATE and/or WP:TRIVIA. Magitroopa (talk) 20:41, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Awards table revisited

Revisiting the previous discussion at Talk:Nickelodeon Kids' Choice Awards#Awards table is getting quite too big at this point. It also seems a bit cluttered/unnecessary to include every single category, including ones at the bottom of the table that have been used 1-10 times within the past 35 years of the awards ceremony.

I think even just three paragraphs could easily cover it:

  • The first talking about notable categories from just about every year (Favorite Movie, Favorite TV Show, Favorite Song, etc.) and noting any changes over the years (such as a split from 'Favorite Singer' into 'Favorite Male Singer' and 'Favorite Female Singer')
  • The second talking about notable category additions that haven't been around from the get-go (such as Favorite Book, Favorite Video Game, Favorite Animated Movie, etc.)
  • The third talking about most recent/notable categories in the given times, such as 'Favorite Social Star' and 'Favorite Social Music Star'.

If there's no objection(s) to this, I can probably write something up for this and see where it goes from there. Any feedback/suggestions/ideas? Magitroopa (talk) 17:21, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

What's Wrong with Including that Bit in the Slime Stunt 2010 Section

To Magitroopa, the ad where Nicola Peltz was slimed was purposely made as a tie-in, so it's not irrelevant. There's no real harm in including it. Futuremoviewriter (talk) 21:41, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Production Companies

Can we add production companies? Certain companies produce the show every year. All of them have been produced by Nickelodeon Productions. Kids Choice Awards from 2001-2015 were all produced by Bob Bain Productions. Kids Choice Awards from 2015-2023 have been produced by GHS Productions (Now known as Chloe Productions). The 2023 Kids Choice Awards were produced by Den Of Thieves. I dont know who produced the first ever one, as there is no credits, but my guess is Chauncy Street Productions or Fred/Alan Inc (both now Frederator Studios) DarkModeEditor (talk) 19:25, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

We already have too much detail as it is here (and usually it's not easily sourced). This really isn't information important to anyone outside of awards show enthusiasts unless it's a botch-up like the 89th Academy Awards. Nate • (chatter) 21:12, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
im a logo enthusiast so thats where i got that info :p DarkModeEditor (talk) 21:46, 15 August 2023 (UTC)
Archive 1
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