Talk:Nicholas Payton

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Huh? Where's the Bio?

The article is tagged: "A major contributor to this article appears to have a close connection with its subject." So somebody who knows this guy wrote something here. Was it all positive or all negative? Was every contributor to this date besides the compiler of the discography, which survives, closely connected to the subject? No? Then why is every biographical detail from earlier contributors gone. And so even the freely usable photo is biased? Ridiculous!

I don't have time to sort this out and I'm not sure I want to, but I just heard Payton for the first time on Jazz24.org and thought he really has something — who is this guy? So I turn to Wikipedia naturally, and I have to go back to the history of this article to discover anything. True or imaginary, at least it's a place to start. I noted that in an early version we get the news that this master of the great art of jazz may have feet of clay in that he has crackpot racial theories (my interpretation — maybe he's right and I'm wrong), theories that are referenced to his blog. The reference is a dead link (http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2011/02/17/on-the-difference-between-prejudice-and-racism/) — perhaps suggesting second thoughts on Payton's part — but the Internet archive confirms the reality of the original blog post (http://web.archive.org/web/20120326020438/http://nicholaspayton.wordpress.com/2011/04/27/on-racism-and-white-supremacy/), so I have no idea why this notable item was deleted, unless the deleter, Meanhannah (see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicholas_Payton&diff=517073020&oldid=517071454) is the suspect person with a close connection to Payton. I doubt that for a notable but not-very-famous artist, such quoting of his own words would be disqualified as original research, but I suppose it would be a legitimate debating point.

My point is, what's so frightening about discussing what the problem is right here on the talk page? I suppose if Payton really is a good as I think he is, that his admirers would be loathe to admit anything that distracts from our hero worship, but GROW UP! Louis Armstrong remains the unapproachable master of the jazz trumpet yet who suggests that his alleged "Uncle Tomming" must go unmentioned, pro or con? Show me a jazz musician who has no opinions on racial issues and I'll show you a fiction.

Then again when Qworty deleted the entire narrative here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nicholas_Payton&diff=next&oldid=517085340, his complaint was "Biography: Incredible. Not a single shred of WP:RS," yet Qworty does not say whether the information was incredible or merely that he/she finds the lack or reliable sources incredible. Surely the issue cannot be about "potentially libelous" material, right? Maybe Qworty could be patient and wait for editors to do better, starting with at least something in the way of names, events, organizations, and so forth to help editors look things up? I realize this is a bit of a rant, but Wikipedia used to be edited interactively, and I think that spirit would serve this article better than slash and burn editing. Above all, what's wrong with discussing the problems you have with the article right here? —Blanchette (talk) 06:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There were a few series of edits which contravened WP:COI. Qworty caught these, but rather than simply reverting to the old sourced version, he deleted the content. (One of his edits summaries indicated that this activity had been self-admitted at WP:COIN, but I'm unable to find anything there regarding either this article, or the other editors in question.) I've taken the liberty of reverting to a version that preceded the COI edits, and tried to incorporate a few of the (non-COI) changes that occurred in the meantime. And FYI, Qworty has since been indefinitely blocked from editing. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:36, 16 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (February 2018)

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