Talk:Newport Town Bridge
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 | On 1 March 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Newport Bridge, Wales. The result of the discussion was moved to Newport Town Bridge. |
Requested move 1 March 2021
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: moved to Newport Town Bridge. (closed by non-admin page mover) Elli (talk | contribs) 03:30, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Newport Bridge, Newport → Newport Bridge, Wales – Avoid repeated disambiguation similar to Talk:Oxford High School, England#Requested move 14 March 2019 since there is Newport Bridge (Arkansas) in another Newport municipality among others at Newport Bridge and this article has a hatnote to Claiborne Pell Newport Bridge. It could be moved to Newport Bridge, Gwent given the apparent existence of one in Pembrokeshire however that one probably isn't notable and the tile there is probably just descriptive namely its a bridge in Newport rather than a proper noun and consensus hasn't been gained to move Newport, Wales to Newport, Gwent. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:15, 1 March 2021 (UTC) —Relisting. Polyamorph (talk) 09:41, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Newport Town Bridge already redirects here and may be a better title. 162.208.168.92 (talk) 20:44, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Yes that would be a WP:NATURAL option. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:00, 1 March 2021 (UTC)
- Oppose No policy basis to avoid repeating part of base name in the disambiguator, if that’s the most appropriate disambiguator. I'm not a fan if Virginia Beach, Virginia, and think it should be moved to Virginia Beach, but that’s no reason to move it to a different disambiguator. Per WP:TITLECHANGES, there is no good reason to move here. --В²C ☎ 01:18, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- There is a basis in both the Arkansas one and this one is also in a Newport! therefore failing WP:PRECISE but also WP:UKPLACE for England mentions about using "Lincoln, England" not "Lincoln, Lincolnshire" if the city and county use variants of the same name. While this doesn't explicitly apply to Wales its an even more extreme case since its repeating the city name rather than just a variation. Regarding Virginia Beach that's tiled that way due to WP:USPLACE saying that its common usage but I think if it did need disambiguation (which it doesn't) we would indeed use Virginia Beach, United States but its clearly primary even if the other places in the US at ceb:Virginia Beach are notable. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- No, we can ignore the Arkansas bridge because this bridge is far more likely to be sought with eight times as many page views[1]|. Leave well enough alone, please. -- В²C ☎ 13:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Born2cycle: firstly 8x probably isn't enough for a PDAB but in any case Claiborne Pell Newport Bridge has 1,397 views (compared with only 156 for this one)[[2]] which appears to often be called "Newport Bridge" (its used in running text and the infobox and was moved to the current title to make way for a DAB so its possible "Newport Bridge" alone is its most common name. In other words even if it was only called "Newport Bridge" alone only 1 or 2 % of the time it would still be as common as this one especially since this one comes up in the search suggestions but not the Claiborne Pell one. We may have a narrow consensus (that you pushed for, something I'm more or less OK with in limited circumstances) to have PDABs but its very unlikely it applies here. In any case unlike Thriller (album) its not likely someone would try searching for "Newport Bridge, Newport" if they want the Welsh one in addition the qualifier is pretty meaningless since it just repeats "Newport" anyway so us useless to disambiguate "Newport Bridge". Notice for example that the city is located at Newport, Wales not Newport, Newport since the latter is both pretty useless to disambiguate and there are other settlements called Newport in a Newport administrative division (such as the Essex one). Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:55, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- You almost had me convinced with how many page views Claiborne Pell Newport Bridge has, until I looked and saw that bridge is not in Newport (RI) the way this bridge is in Newport (Wales), so only this one is reasonably likely to be searched as "Newport Bridge, Newport". How absolutely likely one is to search for this topic with "Newport Bridge, Newport" is important for COMMONNAME, not for WP:D or WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. For PT, what's relevant is how likely it is relative to the likelihood of looking up another topic with that search term. What I don't see is any other topic that is likely at all to be sought with a "Newport Bridge, Newport" search, much less a topic more likely to be sought like that than this topic is. So, this topic is the PT of "Newport Bridge, Newport". Even if it's moved, this title should remain a redirect to this article. The PT issue settled, we're back to looking for policy reasons to change this title to the proposed one. I'm still not seeing one. The duplication of "Newport" in the disambiguator certainly isn't one. --В²C ☎ 23:32, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- The RI one is (partly) in the municipality boundaries (the other half being in Jamestown). One could argue that one is more likely to search for the Welsh one this way than the RI one though as noted given the views and the fact PDABs have a higher threshold than base names. COMMONNAME doesn't appear to be relevant here (unless we're moving to a natural disambiguator such as "Newport Town Bridge") which you don't appear to be suggesting. Its true that the Welsh one is completely in the municipality boundaries of the Welsh one though but its very unlikely anyone who knows that there are multiple bridges called "Newport Bridge" would try this for any of them, more likely you would try something like "Newport Bridge, Wales". This is very different to Alabama (band) where most people are going to be aware of the state but not other bands so might well try (band) in their search. And yes there is a basis on changing the qualifier anyway WP:PLACEDAB says about using the country for settlements that have variants of the name of the province capitals that are named like the province which is similar to the reason we moved Lincoln, Lincolnshire to Lincoln, England (a move you closed). Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:14, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
- You almost had me convinced with how many page views Claiborne Pell Newport Bridge has, until I looked and saw that bridge is not in Newport (RI) the way this bridge is in Newport (Wales), so only this one is reasonably likely to be searched as "Newport Bridge, Newport". How absolutely likely one is to search for this topic with "Newport Bridge, Newport" is important for COMMONNAME, not for WP:D or WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. For PT, what's relevant is how likely it is relative to the likelihood of looking up another topic with that search term. What I don't see is any other topic that is likely at all to be sought with a "Newport Bridge, Newport" search, much less a topic more likely to be sought like that than this topic is. So, this topic is the PT of "Newport Bridge, Newport". Even if it's moved, this title should remain a redirect to this article. The PT issue settled, we're back to looking for policy reasons to change this title to the proposed one. I'm still not seeing one. The duplication of "Newport" in the disambiguator certainly isn't one. --В²C ☎ 23:32, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- @Born2cycle: firstly 8x probably isn't enough for a PDAB but in any case Claiborne Pell Newport Bridge has 1,397 views (compared with only 156 for this one)[[2]] which appears to often be called "Newport Bridge" (its used in running text and the infobox and was moved to the current title to make way for a DAB so its possible "Newport Bridge" alone is its most common name. In other words even if it was only called "Newport Bridge" alone only 1 or 2 % of the time it would still be as common as this one especially since this one comes up in the search suggestions but not the Claiborne Pell one. We may have a narrow consensus (that you pushed for, something I'm more or less OK with in limited circumstances) to have PDABs but its very unlikely it applies here. In any case unlike Thriller (album) its not likely someone would try searching for "Newport Bridge, Newport" if they want the Welsh one in addition the qualifier is pretty meaningless since it just repeats "Newport" anyway so us useless to disambiguate "Newport Bridge". Notice for example that the city is located at Newport, Wales not Newport, Newport since the latter is both pretty useless to disambiguate and there are other settlements called Newport in a Newport administrative division (such as the Essex one). Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:55, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- No, we can ignore the Arkansas bridge because this bridge is far more likely to be sought with eight times as many page views[1]|. Leave well enough alone, please. -- В²C ☎ 13:47, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- There is a basis in both the Arkansas one and this one is also in a Newport! therefore failing WP:PRECISE but also WP:UKPLACE for England mentions about using "Lincoln, England" not "Lincoln, Lincolnshire" if the city and county use variants of the same name. While this doesn't explicitly apply to Wales its an even more extreme case since its repeating the city name rather than just a variation. Regarding Virginia Beach that's tiled that way due to WP:USPLACE saying that its common usage but I think if it did need disambiguation (which it doesn't) we would indeed use Virginia Beach, United States but its clearly primary even if the other places in the US at ceb:Virginia Beach are notable. Crouch, Swale (talk) 09:23, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment as per IP, would prefer Newport Town Bridge. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:59, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
- Comment. Need to distinguish it from Newport, Pembrokeshire (which doesn't have a town bridge), so Newport Town Bridge should do it. I don't like Newport, Wales, though, as not specific, though that's not the issue here. Tony Holkham (Talk) 12:56, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.