Talk:Newport, Wales

Population

At the 2011 census, it was the third largest city in Wales, with a population of 145,700.[1] Population (2011 Census)

• Total	151,500 (Ranked 7th)

They can't both be right — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.202.71.217 (talk) 03:08, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi 14.202.71.217

The infobox figure shows the population as per the List of Welsh principal areas by population page

This uses the ONS' latest, mid 2017 estimate

I have added a direct reference link from here to the 2017 ONS data in the infobox

But will keep the 2011 census figure for info purposes in the introduction to the article too. Llemiles (talk) 11:39, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Twinning?

Oh! what's occurin'!? Guangxi Province in China? We all know "there's no Province finer"?? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:04, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Cut ties

NCC voted unanimously on the 23rd to cut ties with Guangxi, I've added some info about that

Llemiles (talk) 10:27, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Have you? Where was that, thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:40, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Beware reFill 2 errors

Beware if you use reFill 2, for converting raw urls into citations, as it introduces the depreciated cite parameter "deadurl" as it did here. Many thanks to User:John B123 for the quick repair. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:36, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Flag

Hi Newportonians, just checking on the flag. There have been various recent edits of adding user-generated banner of arms to other articles (where a user creates a flag based on the coat of arms). I just want to ask whether the flag included in this article is actually used as a flag at all, and whether it is a flag or a banner of arms (a heraldic flag with no widespread use outside the council). I do not find any sources for this design used as the flag for Newport (some use of the shield but not the flag). If no sources can be found it should be removed, however if there is picture evidence (on commons) of its use (like in the city centre by the council) it can be kept up. Many Thanks – DankJae (talk) 15:39, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

District of Newport

This article exists with scope from 1974-1996 however from what I can see just like Merthyr Tydfil County Borough the boundaries didn't change in 1996 therefore per Wikipedia:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about districts#Reconstituted districts like Municipal Borough of Harrow/London Borough of Harrow I suggest expanding the scope of the district article to include the "present" unitary district. This article like Merthyr Tydfil should then be about the settlement. Consider in contrast how the District of Cardiff got the community of Pentyrch from Taff-Ely and the District of Swansea got 10 communities from Lliw Valley. Swansea and possibly Cardiff should probably also be split but as noted those districts were newly created in 1996 so we would need new articles but with Newport we can use the existing article.

Britannica makes reference to the different population figures. The population of the principal area in 2021 was 159,587 while the settlement was 130,900. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:28, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

@Crouch, Swale, just noticed your edits there, I disagree, prefer that district article is merged here. Instead, you could be proposing a split of this article into Newport (Welsh city) and Newport County Borough. Merthyr Tydfil ≠ Merthyr Tydfil County Borough, just like Harrow, London ≠ London Borough of Harrow, Newport on the other hand, the city, dominates its principal area, making such difference between the two very minor and can be addressed in one article. DankJae 03:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Also WP:UKDISTRICTS is specifically for England. DankJae 05:51, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@DankJae: The correct thing would be to move District of Newport to Newport County Borough. Although UKDISTRICTS deals with England the same principal applies, like Merthyr Tydfil but unlike Cardiff and Swansea the boundaries of the "current" and "former" district are the same. So we don't need to create a new article just use the district article. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Crouch, Swale While the same principle applies there is no consensus for it and I disagree it should go ahead. Yes the boundaries are the same but the clearer consensus here is that the county borough and city should be treated in one article. Rather than convert an entirely different article into something that it isn’t. DankJae 11:11, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I posted this suggestion back in August and it got no comments in over 5 months. The boundaries of the 1974-1996 and 1996-present are the same unlike Cardiff and Swansea. Crouch, Swale (talk) 11:20, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

@Crouch, Swale, and apologies for not seeing it sooner, may have helped if it was raised on the WikiProjects (both Wales and UK Geo). Yes the boundaries are the same but it is clear that the district article is on the former district while this article includes the modern "district" together with the city. Therefore best be clearer and propose the main change, splitting this article, and if split then merge the district article. DankJae 11:24, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Also Britannica has both the town (not been updated to city) and county borough in one article, the two population figures can be included here if properly sourced (from other than Britannica). DankJae 12:04, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Not entirely sure I understand the proposal, but for what it's worth:

• District of Newport - this seems to me to be a part of the administrative history of Newport, and could stand alone, or be folded in here;
• Newport, Wales - this seems to me to cover both the city and the county borough/principal area, and to do so reasonably well. I think trying to split it into two articles, the city and separately the county borough would be both tricky and pointless, given the dominance within the area that the city has;
• I'm absolutely no expert on what policies/guidance may apply in this case, or what similarities there may be at other "place" articles, but I hope that this won't be another instance where over-narrow interpretations see us spending acres of type debating the minutiae. I have in mind discussions like this, this and, more tangentially, this. KJP1 (talk) 13:16, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  @DankJae: Its clear that the district article is on the "former" district but it can easily be modified to be about both just like Merthyr Tydfil County Borough is. If you look at Category:Districts abolished by the London Government Act 1963 you can see that all of them deal with the districts until 1965 with 1 exception Municipal Borough of Harrow which goes straight to London Borough of Harrow because the boundaries didn't change in 1965. Its possible the article should be moved to something like Newport County Borough but that's a different issue. Note that the Welsh Wikipedia has the article at cy:Casnewydd (sir) and the German Wikipedia has the article at de:City of Newport so possibly Newport (principcal area) or City of Newport could be used. Crouch, Swale (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  As @KJP1 and I say probably makes more sense to merge the district article to here. The clear existing and long-standing consensus is that the principal area should be discussed here, reforming a separate article "because they look the same" does not override the consensus here for the principal area to be discussed here. And such change best needs a formal proposal.

  Terms of naming, not easy, the council no longer styles it "Newport County Borough" when they gained city status, so that have fallen out of use for "city" (yes initially proposed it because of consistency with the others, but remembered it is not really used anymore).

  "City of Newport" cannot be used as their are other cities called Newport, possibly contending for primary, which by the way you argued against using. So probably the option is Newport (Welsh city) and Newport (county borough). Nonetheless, I do not see the real benefit of a split, as Newport's built up area covers the entire PA, with only Caerleon the town that tries to distinguish itself. Ofc, a formal proposal can lead to a clearer discussion. DankJae 18:06, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not sure what longstanding consensus there is here? This was proposed and started months (though not completed) ago and matches what's done at both Merthyr Tydfil County Borough and Torfaen. "City of Newport" could potentially be used, I argued against using it for the settlement article (also nothing it was moved to the incorrectly capitalized City Of Newport) but it could be used for the principal area just like City of Lancaster even though Lancaster is a DAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:20, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

  It was proposed under "District of Newport" rather than what is actually proposed, a "proposed split", so that possibly made it harder to notice. A formal discussion would be much more advertised. This article has been about both the then town and the county borough since its creation, with no county article ever made, with no dispute until now. And I am disputing any bold split, please raise a formal proposal.

  Newport is not the same as Merthyr Tydfil, and there isn't a town called Torfaen. DankJae 18:30, 7 February 2024 (UTC)