Talk:Neil Ritchie/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 12:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look at this shortly - if only he'd agreed to write memoirs! Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 12:49, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Prelim

No duplicated links
Images correctly licensed
Article is stable
Earwig reports copyvio possible only because a blogspot yoinked the lede in 2021

Busy period of work coming up, I doubt I'll get to this until next week. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 22:11, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lede and infobox

I'm not sure whether world wars is the most appropriate link, as it actually discusses a wider variety of wars than the two obvious ones
Y Changed to "who served in the First and Second World Wars" Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't need to provide the shortened VE Day in brackets, it's the only time in the article it's mentioned in this form
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"with the British Expeditionary Force"
Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
BGS acronym not needed in lede
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know the first paragraph of the lede mentions it, but the third paragraph could briefly mention that Gazala is during his command of Eighth Army. Right now the unobservant reader might think he lost Gazala while BGS of II Corps
Y Reorganized the lead. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"~~the~~ XII Corps"
"he commanded the Scottish Command" to avoid lots of command here, perhaps "he was given the Scottish Command"
Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"He commanded of Far East Land Forces"
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did he definitely join the army in 1914? I think theoretically if he passed out in December he could have joined late in the previous year?
We don't count service at the academy, so his military service started on 16 December 1914, when he was commissioned. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His service number is not referenced or mentioned in main text
Y Added. I find it service numbers useful, as the London Gazette can sometimes locate on service number when it cannot on name. Officers did not have service numbers during the First World War. Out article says that they were adopted in 1920, but I cannot find evidence that they were used before 1940. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

Having checked ODNB I think Essequibo (colony) is more appropriate than Essequibo River; the former was a county at the time of Ritchie's birth there.
Y Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Link British Army on first mention
Y Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What's a runner plantation?
Y Typo. Should have been "rubber plantation". Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do we know when they moved back to England? (or was it just Ritchie?)
It was the custom at the time for parents stationed overseas to send children to boarding schools back in the UK because of high infant mortality from tropical diseases. The family did return to the UK, and Dugald MacDougall Ritchie died in London in 1923. [1] Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First World War

"he passed out" > "Ritchie passed out"
Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"26 September 1915" don't need to repeat the year
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"24 April 1916", "March 1917" ibid
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Is there a reason why Battle of Istabulat isn't in the infobox?
Y Oversight. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Link Bombay
Y Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"and he was promoted"
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"7th Indian Division" is this the Meerut Division? Don't see a reason to change the name here
Y Yes. The sources use both. Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per previous cmts, don't think the acronym for MC is needed when it is not repeated anywhere in the text
Y Used in the postnominals in the lead. Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Between the wars

Move the link for major to first mention with Wavell
Y Moved. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Link companies
Y Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Link regimental depot
Y I did not know about that article. Linked. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Ritchie served under Wavell as a"?
Y Typo. Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"26 August 1939" repeated year

Second World War

"May 1940", "11 July 1940" repeated year
Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Shortly afterwards Ritchie was made BGS of Southern Command" I don't understand the timeline here; he's mentioned in dispatches on 26 July and then "shortly afterwards" becomes BGS under Brooke who leaves "in July 1940"? (also, repeated year here)
Y Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I won't keep mentioning the repeated years now, but there's a lot of them that seem unnecessary
A word or two to say that Ritchie stayed in England with the 51st throughout that period, as I assume he did?
Yes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
When does the change from GOC 51st to Wavell's DCGS occur?
Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"of major-general had been made temporary"
Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"when the battle was won" what battle? I'm assuming Crusader but this isn't made clear, and maybe a word or two on how he won, or what the goal was?
Y Added a bit more. Strangely, the battle has no name, just "operation Crusader". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Give a word or two to introduce who Corelli Barnett and Michael Carver are
Y Tricky, as British English forbids the use of false titles. had a go at this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I know it's a quote, but I don't think "General Sir Arthur Smith" ever made it past lieutenant general even on a temporary basis?
Y Added brackets. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"first line Territorial Army formation" you used "2nd Line" earlier so consistency with spelling/numbers and capitalisation would be good
Y Made consistent. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"an temporary lieutenant-general"
Y Corrected. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't understand why the paragraph starting "James Cassels served..." is relevant to Ritchie's biography. For Cassels and Elliot articles, sure, but it isn't clear why this particular change in underlings is any more notable than all the other changes that I'm sure aren't mentioned
Highlights the way that British generals took their staff with them. Also significant that Montgomery grants a request for a particular officer. He would not have done this if he did not have faith in Ritchie's judgement. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Post-war

I'm assuming not much went on at Scottish Command, but I'd be interested to know what Far East Land Forces were getting up to post-war?
The British Army had many important-sounding sinecures like "Lord Warden of the Tower of London" and "Governor of Edinburgh Castle". I will look into this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Added a bit more about Far East Land Forces. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:33, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Was he based in Washington from 1949 to his retirement, or did he finish that appointment earlier?
Y Until his retirement. Clarified.

Dates of rank

Reference for substantive captain is missing
Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

References look good apart from FamilySearch. This is not a reliable source.
Y Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:09, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7: Hi, that's all I have for now. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 19:01, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: Anything further? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:10, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7: Having made a couple of minor edits I'm passing this article as satisfying the GA criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 11:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]