Talk:National Tramway Museum

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National Tramway Museum was the selected article of the UK Trams Portal between 22nd August 2007 and 31st August 2007.

The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:National Tramway Museum.

National Tramway Museum Route map

Now, the route of the tramway may be fairly small, but I think it still deserves a map - especially because of the prospect of an extension. I now what needs doing, and I have found the icons, I am just unsure as to how to do it put the icons together. The icons are here Jack Gordon 15:51, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have added a route map using the icons - if anyone wants to improve it, feel free! I am now going to do a diagram of the museum's facilities. - Jack Gordon 11:59, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

National Tramway Museum → Crich Tramway Village — The website, guidebook and publicity material all refer to it as Crich Tramway Village, Home of the National Tramway Museum —Jack Gordon 11:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Support Jack Gordon 11:03, 13 July 2007 (UTC) - The website, guidebook and publicity material all refer to it as Crich Tramway Village, Home of the National Tramway Museum.[reply]
Support. Sure, it makes sense. --Asterion^talk 17:56, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Support, as per nom. – Marco 79 13:42, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Chris j wood 13:35, 17 July 2007 (UTC) - The website, guidebook and publicity material all refer to Crich Tramway Village, Home of the National Tramway Museum, which implies that the Crich Tramway Village and National Tramway Museum are two different entities. After all, no-one is suggesting that we should rename Gordon Brown to 10 Downing Street.[reply]

Discussion

Any additional comments:

The website, guidebook and publicity material all refer to it as Crich Tramway Village, Home of the National Tramway Museum. Jack Gordon 11:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To you, it might seem like that, but what it means (and I speak as a Society Member), is that the Village is home to all sorts of things - it has several events that have nothing to do with trams. We could easily say Crich Tramway Village, Home of Barnett's Sweetshop, but that wouldn't mean that an article should be writte. If Barnett's sweetchop had an article, i would again say to move it, because Barnett's Sweetshop could be put in with Crich Tramway Vllage. Please feel free to discuss this further on my talk page - Jack Gordon 14:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And I would agree with you that Barnett's Sweetshop would not be an appropriate topic for an encyclopaedia. But the National Tramway Museum clearly is an appropriate subject for such an article. I suspect there may be room for two articles (one on the NTM as a museum and academic entitity, the other on the CTV as a tourist attraction) but I'm not really trying to push that point of view. Currently there is one article, and both names route to it. All we are really discussing is which name should be the primary name.

Reading between the lines as non-member of the TMS, I'd suggest that the description Crich Tramway Village, Home of the National Tramway Museum suggests that the TMS are not entirely sure of the answer to this one. I'd suggest horses for courses is the answer. The CTV name is quite clearly intended as a marketing ploy to get tourists in, and there is nothing wrong with that. If I was discussing a Wikitravel article, I'd use the CTM name. But Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, less interested in tourist information; more interested in dry academic issues and continuity. Crich has been known as the NTM for donkey's years (I first visited it under that name in the 1960s) and from an academic pov its primary purpose always was (and I hope still is) the preservation of our tramway heritage. From that perspective, the NTM is by far the best for WP to use as its primary name. -- Chris j wood 15:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you are right in that sense. If it turns out that no-one else decides to vote for a name change, I will start a page entitled Crich Tramway Village and explain about that there. I am simply relaying what we TMS members have been told. Or, perhaps we should change the name to Crich Tramwy Village, Home of The National Tramway Museum? I suppose that the name just corresponds to the Village also, yet the Museum uses the whole line to Glory Mine - Jack Gordon 16:12, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 14:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Day At Crich Tramway Village

It has been contested that this section is not suitable for Wikipedia. Personally, I think that it allows people to "plan their days" so to speak - if they have a limited amount of time, they can choose what to and what to not see. Also, a complete stranger to both the article and the museum might like to know what it's like - they may never be able to go there. Please discuss, and if necessary I will remove it. Jack Gordon 17:37, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly to find this place in Google Map we have an overlap between content and fields to read - after clicking coordinates clear your picture please. Secondly it would be nice to show the place of the BR station - now its difficult to find. --SonniWP 18:30, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thirdly the fleet table contains a lot of empty entries, so the table wastes window area. Please reduce empty entries, alternatively use remark signs and remarks below the table for to use space more efficiently. I want more maps of the museum site to plan my way through the museum to the car sheds, where are the sun indications at which time do we get the best light for fotos. Contact with weather prophets will be a problem of the visitor, but the map where to hide in the case of rain and so on are to be known in advance. --SonniWP 18:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can't quite tell what you're getting at, but I think you are saying this: You would like a Google Map to say where abouts it is, with the railway station. And secondly, you would like a map of where to go etc. There is an official map, but it is copyrighted by the museum - therefore I cannot publish it. I will try and do my own, but it may only be a line drawing. The table itself can be improved, and I am still in the process of doing so. Jack Gordon 09:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I think that it allows people to "plan their days" so to speak - if they have a limited amount of time, they can choose what to and what to not see.

Also, a complete stranger to both the article and the museum might like to know what it's like - they may never be able to go there. Travelguide information, not appropriate for Wikipedia. Use Wikitravel for tourist info, this is an encyclopedia not a Green Michelin Guide. I've hidden this passage in the hopes it can be wikified, if not, it is a clear situation of inappropriate content. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 06:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I dont think youve read what youve deleted. It has been wikified. the above comment are from several months ago. And can you stop removing talk page banners? Bluegoblin 7 07:28, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed no banner Bluegoblin but merge TWP and UKT, I read your conversation with Sambo concerning the presence of both and concerns have been added to your conversation. the concerns of a second user who has stated there is no need for two UKT banners will also be added. The comments here being one month old are perfectly contemporary particularly if the issue is outstanding. I paid much attention to your contributions and consider them inappropriate for wikipedia especially with your justification: Personally, I think that it allows people to "plan their days" so to speak - if they have a limited amount of time, they can choose what to and what to not see. Wikipedia is not the place for tourism information. Wikipedia's sister project Wikitravel is however the place to put such information. Be attentive and note I did not remove nor delete your contributions but hid them from the article body as there may be information worthy of retention. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 09:47, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A Day At Crich Tramway Village

Can I just say that, following the recent removal and then re-placement of this, it is infac copyrighted by The Tram Centre, a website which I own, and I have placed it myself on Wikipedia, and I do not mind it being edited, which it was to become suitable for Wikipedia. Most information on this page is either re-used or taken from my website, and that is becuase I have placed it here, without any copyright restrictions. Bluegoblin7 09:01, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note what it says below the edit window, and above "Save page": "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL." If it's not your intention to license it in that manner (which is very different from the "default" effect of a copyright notice), then please don't submit it. Alai 21:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You can't withdraw content (unfortunately) if you agreed to the license then it is done, there's no going back. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 06:15, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeh well im bk now, but its ur fault i left... Bluegoblin 7 07:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't feel responsible for your reaction following polite and well spoken concerns, concerns shared by other users. your reaction was clearly overblown despite calm replies. Least you could do is make an effort in prose to express yourself, if you have worries, that would be the best way to share them. Captain Scarlet and the Mysterons 09:43, 21 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Crich Tramway Village/NTM

I propose a split of this article, putting the village and attractions in more depth at the village page, and have this one focus more on the museum, tramcars, buildings (the histories etc) and the TMS etc.

What does everyone think?

Thanks,

BG 7 14:56, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest a merge would make more sense. Aren't they an integrated complex these days? [1] Gordonofcartoon (talk) 17:56, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It would really make more sense to integrate the NTM article into CTV, as the latter is also the location for various other events (eg Red October Day). The "Museum" is in the village but the biggest highlight is that it is meant to be a period location, I would say. Asterion^talk 18:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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