Talk:National Football League/Archive 5

This is an archive of past discussions about National Football League. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

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Archive 3

Archive 4

Archive 5

What's your opinion?

So, should we split the NFL teams section into it's own article? PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 16:58, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Try requesting a move, see how that works. 75.176.73.120 (talk) 02:31, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't know how to, though. PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 02:43, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Is this referring to the section National Football League § Clubs?—Bagumba (talk) 05:09, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 13:51, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

It's not particularly large. What would be added? Consider the guideline WP:AVOIDSPLIT:

...editors are encouraged to work on further developing the parent article first, locating coverage that applies to both the main topic and the subtopic. Through this process, it may become evident that subtopics or groups of subtopics can demonstrate their own notability, and thus can be split off into their own article.

—Bagumba (talk) 14:40, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

It's useful for this page and doesn't need a split. Remember that for every split a large percentage of readers are lost, so best to keep everything in this article presentable and in one place. Randy Kryn (talk) 14:46, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

It's not got too much detail, it's a good amount to summarise the main points of how teams, conferences and TV blackouts work, which are all key concepts to understanding the NFL (particularly for readers that don't watch much NFL). Joseph2302 (talk) 15:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, just asking PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 17:15, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 3 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: All articles except main article and timeline article moved.. Upon review, there is general support for almost all of these moves, many contingent on not moving the main article, and some contingent on not moving the timeline article. Therefore, I believe sufficient consensus has been established based on the discussion below for the movement of all articles as proposed except for the main National Football League article, and the Timeline of the National Football League article. (closed by non-admin page mover) EggRoll97 ^(talk) 23:59, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

– In response to the ongoing move discussion on the NBA page, I request this set of page moves in order to meet WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE. ScarletViolet (talk • contribs) 12:39, 3 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. JML1148 ^{(talk | contribs)} 10:10, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose league article, fine with the others in line with the discussion at Talk:National Basketball Association oknazevad (talk) 13:19, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose all – The NFL is not only called the NFL and it's not beneficial to move it to the short form acronym. Then, for consistency, it doesn't make sense to use the acronym for the rest of the pages. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:32, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

The status quo actually isn't consistent. For example, there's the existing season pages (e.g. 2023 NFL season) and the drafts (2023 NFL draft), among others. —Bagumba (talk) 14:46, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Hey man im josh, thoughts on Bagumba's comment above, the discussion below and the close at NBA? Possibility of reconsidering? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:52, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject National Football League has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject American Football League has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:49, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject American football has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 13:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, especially the main article per WP:ACRONYMTITLE. As an encyclopedia, we should use the actual name of a topic as our title, rather than an abbreviation of that name, unless "NFL" was used exclusively, which is not the case. The other articles are less important because those are names we made up, but I see no compelling reason to change them. As long as one version redirects to the other, it makes little difference. Station1 (talk) 14:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Support all except standalone National Football League The main National Football League page's existing name is consistent with MOS:ACROTITLE and its Central Intelligence Agency example (...in view of arguments that the full name is used in professional and academic publications). The full "National Football League" expansion can be seen on The New York Times, for example. For the others, where NFL is part of a longer descriptive title, the WP:CONCISE policy seems more applicable. The desciptive titles aren't ambiguous, as they are American football specific. There are other longstanding examples such as NFL playoffs, NFL preseason, NFL lockout and the individual seasons (2023 NFL season), and drafts (2023 NFL draft) where the meaning is clear, and the primary topic of NFL is anyways the football league.—Bagumba (talk) 15:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Support all except the standalone National Football League page, per Bagumba's reasoning. After all, we've got National Hockey League, Major League Baseball, Canadian Football League, American Football League etc. GoodDay (talk) 15:28, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
yeah i was gonna say by scarletviolet's logic, we'd have to abbreviate every sports league title too EricDoesEdits (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Oppose changing the main article as well as 'Timeline of the National Football League' and Support the rest per the above comments as well as reasoning at the NBA requested move. The timeline is a historical record of the league and its development and ongoing heritage, so the full name seems historically significant there. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Oppose National Football League → NFL. Srnec (talk) 16:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
- Srnec, do you mind clarifying, do you just oppose NFL, but support the other proposed moves? « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
  - I oppose the first move. I do not have an opinion on the others. Srnec (talk) 22:08, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Support all but NFL (and neutral on the timeline) for the sake of concision. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 18:55, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Oppose main article per Britannica, unsure on others. Crouch, Swale (talk) 22:26, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Support all but NFL (and maybe Timeline of the National Football League) per WP:SHORTFORM and the examples therein:
- Central Intelligence Agency, but CIA activities in Vietnam and List of CIA station chiefs, not Central Intelligence Agency activities in Vietnam or List of Central Intelligence Agency station chiefs
- Federal Bureau of Investigation, but FBI files on Elvis Presley and FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, not Federal Bureau of Investigation files on Elvis Presley and Federal Bureau of Investigation Ten Most Wanted Fugitives

—⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 06:06, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Support all but NFL (and maybe Timeline of the National Football League) per nominator and for reasons listed by others above. Paintspot Infez (talk) 15:07, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
Weakly Oppose – What about the National Hockey League, Major League Baseball, National Football League (Ireland) & the National Basketball Association, for instance. They don't use Acronyms. Although, The XFL & USFL Use Acronyms. PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 02:56, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@PlaneCrashKing1264: Most people are also opposing moving the standalone National Football League. What is your opinion on the other titles? —Bagumba (talk) 05:07, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@Bagumba: I like the title of Natonal Hockey League, Major League Baseball etc. But, i have mixed feelings about XFL, USFL etc. PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 13:50, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@PlaneCrashKing1264: Sorry, I meant to ask you about all the other longer NFL titles in the above nomination (e.g. List of NFL awards, etc.) —Bagumba (talk) 13:54, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@Bagumba: Lite what? PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 13:56, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Like* PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 13:57, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

@BagumbaBagumba Well, I do like the title of those articles. PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 13:43, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Oppose. Completely unnecessary and adds needless ambiguity. Abbreviations are usually best avoided for article titles. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Sometimes... PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 14:23, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

... and adds needless ambiguity: By the same token, "National Football League" is also ambiguous, see the others at National Football League (disambiguation).—Bagumba (talk) 15:39, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Indeed. Although I would suspect an attempt to rename it would fail as it would be considered primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:13, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Support all except main article National Football League - reading the full name takes up too much space and distracts from what everyone is attempting to decipher. We want to know the specific contents of the article and NFL is self-explanatory. Is the opposition assuming the readers are 2 years old and learning world sports culture for the first time? If so, it does not take a rocket scientist to put two and two together or maybe these newcomers should avoid these one-off pages and start out at the main articles then to learn the basics first before diving into these more esoteric topics. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:49, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Oppose the renaming of all of the above articles. Catfurball (talk) 19:01, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Comment FWIW, the similar move request at Talk:National Basketball Association § Requested move 28 February 2024 has been closed, moving all pages to its concise "NBA" counterpart, except for the base page National Basketball Association.—Bagumba (talk) 15:54, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Ok@Bagumba PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 16:52, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Oppose, for the main article, Support, for the other subpages, per oknazevad and Bagumba. JParksT2023 (talk) 15:59, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

NBA-specific technical issues

@Bagumba FYI, I can't move List of National Basketball Association general managers to shortened version for some reason. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 18:12, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
@BeFriendlyGoodSir-- Me neither. PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 21:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
I think we have to go through Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests unless Bagumba can assist. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 21:42, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
I just requested it at WP:RMTR. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:44, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
Not again! PlaneCrashKing1264 (talk) 23:01, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
If you're thinking that would result in another week-long discussion, that's not the case. It was moved in response to my request (see Talk:List of National Basketball Association general managers). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 23:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Support renaming except for the league article itself and Timeline of the National Football League. The name "NFL" is globally ubiquitous, like "FIFA", and the most logical search terms. Redirects will be maintained for the 0.5% of users typing in the full name of the league as a search term. Carrite (talk) 17:02, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Support renaming except National Football League per the reasoning and consensus established for professional basketball at Talk:National Basketball Association. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- Comment there are probably a lot of downstream resulting tecnical moves, like to categories and templates, if this passes. I.e. Category:Lists of Pro Bowl selections by National Football League team -> Category:Lists of Pro Bowl selections by NFL team. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:34, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Support all except for National Football League. Regarding the added ambiguity, I believe that NFL is a sufficiently-common acronym to be generally understood. Any added ambiguity is, in my opinion, worth the shorter article names. Useight (talk) 23:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Support per WP:SHORTFORM, which notes that we use Central Intelligence Agency, but CIA activities in Vietnam and List of CIA station chiefs, and Federal Bureau of Investigation, but FBI files on Elvis Presley and FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives. BD2412 T 02:15, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Comment I think consensus has been reached here. Should this be closed soon? Majority seems to support shortened form (NFL) for all except main article and Timeline article. - BeFriendlyGoodSir (talk) 06:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
It was relisted on the 13th (arguably, there was even consensus then, as the "opposes" were mostly just regarding a single page—the main National Football League page), so it is scheduled to be reviewed again soon.—Bagumba (talk) 06:16, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.