Talk:Nashville Christian School
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segregation academy
[edit]What is the supposed issue with the sources cited to support the claim that this was founded as s segregation academy? I believe this claim was added n 2017 by user:BillHPike , and has been in the article ever since. This has recently been removed nine times now by user:Itztrue without any discussion here. Meters (talk) 03:08, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
The sources cited are misleading and taken out of context please read the full article here [1] To say that the article supports the claim that Nashville Christian School was founded as a "segregation academy" is totally false. It never once even mentions the schools name. Furthermore I will include plenty more citations that in fact support many of the religious private schools founded in the Nashville area around the early 70's were founded on the fact that they wanted to keep teaching religious faith to the children and had nothing whatsoever to do with race. [2] [3] [4] [5] Itztrue (talk) 03:57, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- You posted a link to the first page of the article, Nashville Christian is mentioned on page two. A few notices from 75-76 attesting that they're not discriminatory by that year aren't surprising, as that is when they were forced to do that by the courts (Runyon v. McCrary). - MrOllie (talk) 13:27, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- But the fact remains, @MrOllie: that @Itztrue:'s references exist (and date back to 1972, not just 75-76, which is quite close to the foundation of the school in 1971). I also suspected that the attestations might have been untruths, necessary to get that tax exemption, but for us to say so is, unfortunately, original research. If you want to discount those cuttings, it'd be best to do so with the authority of a secondary source. Otherwise, I wonder whether a compromise (to avoid perpetual slow edit-warring, which reflects badly on all concerned and really doesn't help the reader) might be "The school was probably founded as a segregation academy (current ref) although it advertised itself as non-discriminatory (Itztrue's ref)." While you're at it, the headmaster's quote about straws doesn't make much sense to an outside reader who doesn't know the history of segregation, and could do with writing up a bit more clearly. Sorry if I'm putting my foot in a complicated and contentious area; this is just a thought from outside. Elemimele (talk) 14:00, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- Some other articles read along the lines...The school was founded in 1971, when many segregation academies were founded to avoid school integration (there's another tennesseean article that lists 7 seg academies founded that year, including this one.) Like many segregation academies, it was not granted tax exempt status by the IRS until 197x. (I can't remember, I think this was 72 according to one source), As of 1985, there were no black students out of 525 students enrolled... plus add current demographics....Look for sources, such as scholarly papers. There is no doubt this school was founded to give white kids a Black-free environment. Great sourcing is hard to find, because it's just one small, fairly unsuccessful school out of many racist establishments founded in Tennessee and throughout the south at that time, but it's there if we search hard enough. I personally wouldn't add the quotes about racism at basketball games including the "black girls don't shave their armpits" and the quote where the student calls the public school "just trash", even though there are at least two articles in the Tennessean that discuss it. But it does help you see where the schools roots are. Jacona (talk) 15:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- As far as defending the school based on their advertisements that claim they don't discriminate....that's just plain ridiculous, obviously promo to begin with and just a legal disclaimer. The only thing that proves is that they had to do it because it was obvious they were discriminatory.Jacona (talk) 15:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- @Jacona: Fair enough! To be honest, apart from its racist past, there is nothing in this article to suggest that the school is currently notable enough to deserve an article. What then bothers me is this: should we have an article about a school now, that's only interesting because in the uncomfortably-close past, it was founded for racist reasons? Is that fair on the current state of the school, and its current pupils and staff? I have no idea what the current state of the school is (there's nothing in the article; it talks in the present tense, but nothing's referenced post 1991, which is thirty years ago as I write.). Is it still open to claims of racist behaviour? Part of me feels that this isn't really an article about a current school: it's an article about a particular instance of school segregation and racism in the 1970s. Would it be better to amalgamate it with other such instances in an article about the subject, so that the school itself, in future, is free to become notable or linger in anonymity?
- (oh, and a P.S.; I hadn't thought before, but the schools own adverts in the newspaper, claiming lack of discrimination, are primary sources, while the article saying it was a segregation academy is of course secondary Elemimele (talk) 16:13, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- You could nominate it for deletion, but in my opinion the result would probably be keep. Historically, high schools in the US were (up until maybe 1-2 years ago) always kept if they were verifiable. The "automatic pass" was eliminated, but since then I have only seen one deleted, (interestingly enough, I think it was in Nashville), but it had only one trivial secondary source. Anyway, you're welcome to, but I think it's a waste of time. I think it's more likely that if it's kept around, more explicit sources on the racial founding school will come to light - and I believe history is important, we should acknowledge where we've been rather than trying to erase history and sanitize it until it's no longer history but rather propoganda. Jacona (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- No, I agree, history is important and shouldn't be lost. I wouldn't put it up for deletion because I don't want the text to disappear. I would prefer the text or the title to make it clear that this is an article about racism in the near past (and probably not really an article reflecting a school today). But AfD would be a scenario where the likely outcomes are either no change (no point) or loss of article (bad). So maybe the status quo is the best option. Thanks for taking the trouble to answer, though! Elemimele (talk) 18:58, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- You could nominate it for deletion, but in my opinion the result would probably be keep. Historically, high schools in the US were (up until maybe 1-2 years ago) always kept if they were verifiable. The "automatic pass" was eliminated, but since then I have only seen one deleted, (interestingly enough, I think it was in Nashville), but it had only one trivial secondary source. Anyway, you're welcome to, but I think it's a waste of time. I think it's more likely that if it's kept around, more explicit sources on the racial founding school will come to light - and I believe history is important, we should acknowledge where we've been rather than trying to erase history and sanitize it until it's no longer history but rather propoganda. Jacona (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- As far as defending the school based on their advertisements that claim they don't discriminate....that's just plain ridiculous, obviously promo to begin with and just a legal disclaimer. The only thing that proves is that they had to do it because it was obvious they were discriminatory.Jacona (talk) 15:52, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
- Some other articles read along the lines...The school was founded in 1971, when many segregation academies were founded to avoid school integration (there's another tennesseean article that lists 7 seg academies founded that year, including this one.) Like many segregation academies, it was not granted tax exempt status by the IRS until 197x. (I can't remember, I think this was 72 according to one source), As of 1985, there were no black students out of 525 students enrolled... plus add current demographics....Look for sources, such as scholarly papers. There is no doubt this school was founded to give white kids a Black-free environment. Great sourcing is hard to find, because it's just one small, fairly unsuccessful school out of many racist establishments founded in Tennessee and throughout the south at that time, but it's there if we search hard enough. I personally wouldn't add the quotes about racism at basketball games including the "black girls don't shave their armpits" and the quote where the student calls the public school "just trash", even though there are at least two articles in the Tennessean that discuss it. But it does help you see where the schools roots are. Jacona (talk) 15:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)