Talk:Murder of Andre Hill

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"Black"?

What was used to determine that Hill was black? In all of the photos I have seen of Hill, he is a fair-skinned man with green eyes, light brown facial hair (along with white hairs), and facial features that are typical for a man from say, southern Italy, Spain, or a number of other European ethic groups. And no, self-identification is not sufficient to make someone black (Cf. Rachel Dolezal), even if they prefer to refer to themselves as such. Bricology (talk) 11:07, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple sources refer to Hill as black.

TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 21:02, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I never questioned that various media sources referred to Hill as "black", TheAmazingRaspberry. Multiple media sources, including the NY Times and WaPo referred to Rachel Dolezal as "black" too, before she was found out. Ditto Prof. Jessica Krug of GWU, who for years claimed to be black, and was unquestioningly described as such in the media. And the novelist and professor H.G. Carrillo, who for decades was described in the media by that name, and as "Afro-Cuban", when he was actually from Detroit, and his real surname was "Carrol", not "Carrillo". Margaret Seltzer claimed to be half-Native American, and the press reported her as such, when she was not. The writer Jamake Highwater (born Jackie Marks) claimed to be Native American, and was dutifully described in the media thus, when she was in fact Ashkenazi. Grey Owl was supposedly Native American, rather than the British "Archibald Stansfeld Belaney". Iron Eyes Cody, long describe in the media as Native American, was actually an Italian-American, born "Espera Oscar de Corti". Alec Baldwin's wife Hilaria claimed to be Spanish -- again, reported in the media -- when she was not. The writer and activist Ward Churchill has long (and falsely) claimed to be Native American; ditto the writers Joseph Boyden and Nasdijj (born "Timothy Patric Barrus") -- all of whose frauds the media, wittingly or unwittingly, helped perpetuate. I am asking what makes Hill "black", since the photo evidence does not support the claim. I suspect that most people who have never heard of this story and simply saw a photo of him would not believe that he was black. Are/were his biological parents black? How is he listed on his birth certificate? How was he described by the officers involved when they first reported the incident? Those are at least as relevant to the question as what the media describes him as. Bricology (talk) 11:49, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you've come up with a genetic test for "Blackism", by the way, you haven't, I think you protest too much. Race is a social construct, not a test of melanin. If someone in a reliable source questions this person's race, feel free to add that info to the article. Otherwise, you are just doing original research. Twopower332.1938 (talk) 16:47, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Twopower332.1938 wrote "Race is a social construct". Says you, and some sociologists, but that is decidedly not the opinion of science. And it's cute how you tried to strawman the scientific term that I used ("ethnicity") by replacing it with the sociological term "race". If ethnicity were only a "social construct" than that would make Rachel Dolezal black, Ward Churchill Native American, "Ja Du" (born Adam Wheeler) a Filipina, Michael Jackson "white", and me, Inuit (NB: I have no Inuit ancestry). You wrote "Unless you've come up with a genetic test for 'Blackism'..." Believe it or not, there *are* genetic tests to determine ethnicity. It's what showed former NAACP Director Ben Jealous to have less than 20% African DNA. You might want to catch up to the 21st century. If a person's DNA shows at least X% Native American ancestry, they can apply for tribal affiliation; if they don't, they can't, no matter how they might choose to identify. If a person's DNA doesn't contain any Ashkenazi ancestry, they are not going to have Tay-Sachs disease, and if they don't have any African DNA, they are not going to have sickle-cell anemia. Funny how science works. So unless you are going to support the notion that Rachel Dolezal, et al, can be "black" despite lacking any African ancestors, you're stuck with the fact that it's fairly straightforward to determine whether or not a person is of African ancestry. That brings us back to the original question: did Andre Hill have significant African ancestry? What is the evidence? I get that you don't know the answer; that's why I'm not asking you. Bricology (talk) 03:23, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The point is, you are doing original research. Your doubts don't mean anything. Newspapers and other media identify this person. Find a reliable source who doubts this person's identity, and you are free to note that in the article, if you think it is important. Otherwise you can write a blog to convince people to change 400 years of common language usage in America. Twopower332.1938 (talk) 03:34, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Andre' alternative spelling

Is Andre' a misspelling of André? --Baller McGee (talk) 19:54, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Don’t think so, the sources list the name as “Andre'” and not André. If it was André they would most likely include the accent on the e. TheAmazingRaspberry (talk) 22:31, 18 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]