Talk:Muggle/Archive 1

Archive 1

Dictonary definition?

Excellent first article, Joe. Keep it up!

And, no, it's not too close to a dictionary definition. User:Ed Poor

Suit

When you mention that someone "was sued", please also mention the outcome of the suit. Was it dismissed as frivious by the judge? Settled out of court? Or what?

Anyone can sue. The question is whether their suit has merit in the eyes of the court (or jury). User:Ed Poor

Mudblood

I am reliably informed by someone who has actually read the books that the term "mudblood" can be applied to one whose parents are both muggles (e.g. Hermione Granger), and not just one who is of "mixed" parentage. Can someone who has read the books confirm this and correct the article? Thanks. -- Oliver Pereira 15:41 Nov 15, 2002 (UTC)

I've only ever seen Muggle-borns having been insaulted with that term. Keyblade Mage 05:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC) Keyblade Mage

Muggle predates Harry Potter

Muggle added to OED in 1993? Potter books printed starting 1997? Something seems wrong. Everyking 06:47, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The term existed long before the Harry Potter books, but it's use in the books is likely the main reason why it's increased in use lately. This should be noted in the article, but I don't know it's true origin. OED doesn't either, just that it was introduced to English in 1205. Sun-Herald article on "muggle" lawsuit As the about link shows, it seems no one can claim rights to the term "muggle". Jobarts^-Talk 05:10, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Muggle was also used to mean Marijuana in the american south in the early part of the 20th century. I'm tempted to add that fact to this page, but I suspect large numbers of kids go to this page, and I don't know how appropriate it is to talk about illegal narcotics on a page with a large number of kid-traffic. No one can say if Rawlings was aware that "her" word predated her, and was used by people such as Louis Armstrong. Mainstreetmark 16:08, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

From the external link:

Besides dismissing her claims against Rowling, Schwartz was ordered to pay a $50,000 fine.

A tough justice system you've got there, when the judge is ordered to pay a fine to the defendant. And isn't Allen a male name anyway? — JIP | Talk 10:19, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Schwartz (the judge) fined Stouffer (the defendant) $50,000 saying she "perpetuated a fraud" by doctoring documents submitted as evidence. I believe that fine went to the court not Rowling, Scholastic, and Time Warner (the claimants), although the articles I've read are not clear on that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.143.60.37 (talk) 22:26, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I think you should put the Marajuana bit in. Wikipedia is not censored. Leemorrison 21:09, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Klingon?

Pooto remember Harry Potter ever having been translated to Klingon. What's the entry for Klingon doing in the article then? — JIP | Talk 10:11, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[[Media:kmv .com,]

It seems there has been severe vandilization of this article. I'll revert it. Lord of Light 13:15, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Bewitched

I saw an episode of the American tv show "Bewitched" and Samantha's mother Endora refers to some one as a "muggle". This was way before Harry Potter.

Please, if you remember, include a description of the episode so that someone with the DVDs can find the reference and add it to this article. Val42 04:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

The episode is called "Three Wishes" and it's season 3, episode 2.

"Three Wishes" was episode 22, and does not contain that word. Endora clearly says "mortal" several times, but not "muggle".Klugerama (talk) 09:10, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm watching the episode on Antenna TV as I type this. It is:

"To Trick-or-Treat or Not to Trick-or-Treat" S06, E07 (First Aired: Oct. 30, 1969) Endora objects to Samantha's Halloween work for UNICEF. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.143.60.37 (talk) 05:14, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Muggles and ghosts

In the article you say that muggles can't see ghosts. All the students at Hogwarts can see the ghosts. Hermione talks to them. Muggles can't see Dementors.20.132.64.140 01:21, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

None of the students at Hogwarts are muggles, and several other students also talk to the ghosts. Am I missing something? Faithlessthewonderboy 23:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Witches and wizards (hogwarts students, for one) can see both dementors and ghosts, but it is not known if any other member of the magical community (E.G., goblins, elvs, hags, vampires, even squibs, ect.) can see them. It is known that muggles cannot see dementors, but it has never been stated, or even implied whether or not muggles can see ghosts or not. Keyblade Mage 05:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC) Keyblade Mage

Untermensch

Somebody edited out the term "human" in this article and replaced it with "untermensch," a Nazi racial term referring to "sub-humans." I think it's clear that in her books, J.K. Rowling is trying to get her readers to understand and identify with victims of racism, since, by definition, anybody reading the book is a "muggle."

Nonetheless, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia; it is not a forum for debate. See WP:NOT. Replacing the term "human" with "untermensch" turns a factually-based article into a commentary on the term "muggle" itself, which is not appropriate.--Mcattell 15:18, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization?

I don't have a Harry Potter book handy so I can't check myself. Should Muggle really be capitalized when it isn't the first word in a sentence? I see how it could be, but I also see how it could not, so can someone please check? We should probably do whatever Rowling does, in this and other HP-related articles. Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 19:09, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

In the middle of a sentince, capitalize it. Reference: DH, ch. Twenty Eight: The Missing mirror, page number 564, line 6 through line 7, sentince spoken by Aberforth Dumbeldore: "When my sister was six years old, she was attacked, set upon, by three Muggle boys." Then he goes on his story, but there's a reference for you. Keyblade Mage 05:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)Keyblade Mage

Personal opinion

Hmm. I thought it was from mug-magic, le-less = short for magicless (people). User:Bojan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.111.197.54 (talk) 12:33, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation

I tend to disagree with the recent incorporation of material from the disambiguation into this page. I think the link to the disambiguation at the top was a preferable solution. I think details of the usage of the term outside of Harry Potter is tangential to this article, while I don't see why someone looking to find out what Louis Armstrong was talking about needs to read through several screens of Harry Potter material before finding out Armstrong wasn't talking about anything to do with Harry Potter at all. Other thoughts? -- Infrogmation 13:35, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

My attention was directed to this issue by a comment made by Beardo on the Talk:Muggle (disambiguation) page. I agree that this is the type of thing that a disambiguation page is normally for. However, these prior and subsequent usages of "muggle" provides context to the usage in the Harry Potter novels. This shows that the term wasn't originated by J.K. Rowling, though I personally think that she developed it independently. Most of the subsequent usages are derived from the Harry Potter context. Splitting this context from the usage in Harry Potter serves to diminish the relevance of both parts. The disambiguation page then becomes redundant. That is why I changed Muggle (disambiguation) to a redirect. — Val42 20:31, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

If this article is going to cover all meanings of "Muggle" and "Muggles" rather than being Harry Potter specific, it certainly needs to be rewritten, as it starts out making the statement that it is a Harry Potter related term. Also, there are a few paragraphs discussing the Harry Potter universe use-- IMO enough for a seperate article-- rather than just a sentence or two as would more usually be found in a disambiguation. -- Infrogmation 21:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

You've made your case. I've made my case. Let's see what others think. — Val42 03:32, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

the etymological definition?

Who can tell me where this word come from? And as the article imply, the word Muggle was used prior to the Harry Potter series, then where? Dreamback1116 (talk) 03:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

mugglewumps is used in Scotland (where Rowling is from) to refer to an idiot. It is not hard to see where Rowling may have got the word muggle to refer to someone lacking talents the main characters have. My Dad has used this word since his childhood in the 50s but I unfortunately do not have written evidence for this. THough it can be noted that Rhold Dhal used muggle wump(s) as a monkey character (and his family) in several of his books - these obviousuly predate the Rowling books and as they are also childrens books it is likely she would have read them.

According to Merriam-Webster on british English mug may mean a gullible, foolish person. The `-le` is a noun-forming ending. Also their website had published thoughts on possible muggle etymology

Rowling wasn't the first to coin the word muggle. There is an earlier muggle that is no longer used: it was a synonym of sweetheart.

Oh the parting of vs twaine Hath causde me mickle paine, and I shall nere be married Vntill I see my muggle againe. —Thomas Middleton, Your Fiue Gallants As It Hath Beene Often In Action At The Black-Friers, 1608

We're not quite sure of where this muggle originated, because it was fairly informal—one 1622 treatise on domestic duties warns husbands against calling their wives by "names more befitting beasts then wiues, as Cole, Browne, Muggle, &c."—and it not particularly long-lived. It had passed out of use by the 1700s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.237.186.250 (talk) 18:35, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I come with this proposal to merge this article into Harry Potter universe as because this one is really short: it lacks of deep, encyclopedic analysis, of a large amount of reliable sources, and has lots of information from the Blood Purity section (i.e. an explanation of what is a half-blood or a muggle-born). All information concerning Muggles in HP can be merged into a section in the HP universe article, and the later usages can be moved to the disambiguation page. Thoughts? --LøЯd ۞pεth 00:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm mildly opposed to this merge, as this is, IMHO, one of those examples where a term from a work of fiction has entered the common lexicon (along the lines of d'oh!, though obviously not to that extent). faithless (^speak) 03:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Addressing the reader

The second sentence: If you are reading this page, then you are probably a muggle, and for that, I am very sorry for your misfortune.

Too lazy to fix it or dig through the guidelines right now, but isn't addressing the reader like this against the guidelines?

--Ben Atkin (talk) 01:15, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Obama?

Where does it state that Barack Obama is a Muggle? What has it got to do with Harry Potter anyway? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.4.49.101 (talk) 15:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia. Unless you have a reference from an embearded, new-England professor stating Obama is not a muggle, then we assume he is a muggle. 24.51.217.118 (talk) 07:58, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

William Shakespeare & old London

I know I've seen the word muggle at least once as a street name on an old map showing the location of the Globe Theater as it was in 1599, but I can't remember the source of the map. The first time I saw it I was in college, the second time I was watching a documentary on Shakespeare. 76.16.169.224 (talk) 02:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Definition of Muggles

According to the author, Terry Teachout in "Pops," a biography about Louis Armstrong, (p. 121) "the word muggles was one of the many synonyms for marijuana used by jazz musicians in the twenties."

In 1931, a song recorded by Armstrong of the same name, marijuana (muggles) was not illegal then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.102.152.243 (talk) 18:35, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

This may be true, but it is not relevant to this article, which is about J. K. Rowling's kind of muggle. Maproom (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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I added

Category:Harry Potter characters. I think that appropriate on the grounds that in HP, “Muggle” refers to a specific class of character. Okay?--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 01:54, 23 March 2018 (UTC)