Talk:Ms. Marvel (miniseries)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Filming

@Favre1fan93: I don't think we can use the Discussing Film article to verify that filming has begun. Lets look at the first quote "As filming begins on the Disney+ Ms. Marvel series, we have learned that Carmen Cabana will serve as cinematographer." The phrase "As filming begins" doesn't necessarily mean that filming has begun and combined with the future tense in segment "Carmen Cabana will serve as cinematographer" suggests that filming is set to begin. The use of the word "said" in "Ms. Marvel is said to have already begun filming" negates the claim as hearsay and thus falls under WP:RUMOR.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:21, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm reading both statements as Discussing Film stating filming has begun, not that it's about to. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:28, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Maybe we need a second opinion. The language in the first statement as I pointed out is vague at best. Discussing Film is not stating anything in the second statement other than that they heard filming has begun. They are not making the claim themselves and passing the liability for making the claim to whoever "said" it.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 16:39, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Comingsoon.net's article on Discussing Film's report says Discussing Film brings word that filming on Disney+’s highly-anticipated MCU series has already started in Atlanta, Georgia. Charles Murphy from Murphy's Multiverse is also stating such, but I know that can't be used, thought it does push favor towards Discussing Film's report. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:47, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Other TV series

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Okay, I explained why I added the "other television series of the franchise", and despite explaining it was reverted once again, so someone is reading? I will say here. The TV series shares continuity not only with the films but also the other shows, at least the Marvel Studios-produced ones (that's why I added the Marvel Studios series link), because of the shared universe. So, is it wrong what I am saying? AxGRvS (talk) 20:39, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

There is a previously established consensus to only link to the MCU films in regards to these Disney+ series as that is what they connect to. Sure, they are MCU television series, but saying that they connect to the other television series of the franchise is misleading as they connect with the films. Adding the Marvel Studios clarification Iunderstand, but it is simply an unnecessary detail as later on in the article, we explain each series is in a phase, which includes the other future films, and because of that and how they have no connections to the other MCU series from Marvel Television, it's not worth while to try and explain that in the lead of each series article, as those should be quick explanations of their canon status in regards to the main MCU, which revolves around the films. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:57, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moved to Talk:Marvel Cinematic Universe: Phase Four § Other TV series mention in lead

 – Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:17, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

Cast section

@Favre1fan93: The source we have for Marsden does not support her being listed as a guest star. I also am not sure we should be dividing the section into Main and Guest since we don't know if this series will use those distinctions (and I don't think it is a fair assumption since we know WandaVision doesn't). - adamstom97 (talk) 01:55, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

That's true, but it also doesn't really give her any type of classification, just that she's been cast. Just going off of Marvel's original source, I just felt we should use that as the "initial" starring roles, with anything else "guests" until a new source comes out. But I do agree that it's probably better to follow the formatting we're using on WandaVision for these. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:43, 20 February 2021 (UTC)

Thailand filming

I haven't been able to find any reputable sourcing on this, but the series will apparently move to Thailand for filming after they finish in Atlanta this week. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:37, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Adding onto this, it appears Farhan Akhtar has left Mumbai for Bangkok to film an "international project" from Marvel Studios. The Indian Express discussed this may be for Ms. Marvel, per the prior Thailand filming reports, but not finding anything that reliably confirms this. Trailblazer101 (talk) 12:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Is comicbook.com a reliable source? Mighty Asgardian616 (talk) 16:12, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

I have found two recent sources from Times of India and Bollywood Life that seemingly confirm Farhan Akhtar is in Bangkok, Thailand filming for Ms. Marvel. Trailblazer101 (talk) 13:33, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Times of India appears reliable. See below - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:45, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Do not use Bollywoodlife as it is a tabloid source. Kailash29792 (talk) 14:50, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

And Times of India actually is unreliable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:51, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Alright, I figured they weren't reputable. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:02, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Apparently, filming in Thailand has wrapped as of May 5, according to a source close to the local crew there. While we can't use this info currently, I feel it might be picked up on. Trailblazer101 (talk) 03:58, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah

The THR Batgirl article refers to these two as "co-showrunners" of Ms. Marvel, which lines up with what we have been discussing in general for the MCU series where the head writer and director are both running the shows with the Marvel Studios producers. Marvel has obviously moved away from having one director do every episode of the series, but this sounds like they are still looking at a "head director" (or in this case, "head directors") to go with the head writer. I think we should include El Arbi and Fallah in the opening paragraph of the lead and note them as co-showrunners in development, and then just say that Obaid-Chinoy and Menon are also directors for the series like we do with the other writers. Not sure what the best wording for the lead is. We should also be on the lookout for similar wording for the other series, though I feel like we already have stuff along these lines for She-Hulk and maybe even Moon Knight. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:05, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I was pondering about that phrase in the article myself, and feel as we know El Arbit and Fallah are pretty much the main/head directors, this should be noted as such. I'm also not so sure on the wording for it, but feel with Ali serving as head writer and Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah as head directors. could work, and then mentioning their hiring with the others as is, just not linked and such. It could work the same for She-Hulk and Moon Knight with Coiro and Diab, given what we know for those two, and maybe even Hawkeye as Rhys Thomas is an EP but Bert & Bertie aren't, but obviously wait and see on that and for Secret Invasion. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:14, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I think we should stick to co-showrunners as the source says. Calling them head directors may be a bit of WP:OR. —El Millo (talk) 21:18, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I just think that co-showrunners may be confusing, since it isn't clear that they are running the show with Ali, but also we don't have a source to support that. If we can't come up with better wording, we could just say "with Ali serving as head writer and directors including Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah" and then add some sort of co-showrunner wording in the development section. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:21, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes we do. That's why we started the thread. The THR article about Batgirl states that El Arbi and Fallah trampolined to co-showrunners of Marvel series Ms. Marvel —El Millo (talk) 22:58, 21 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree with Adam, that even though THR is using the "showrunner" term, we know Marvel isn't, so I don't think we can necessarily translate or introduce that into the article. I don't feel it would be a stretch to call them the "head directors", but we could also say something like "they worked closely with Ali and Marvel Studios". - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:09, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, if you both agree that calling them head directors is within the reasonable realm of paraphrasing and not OR, then I'm fine with it. —El Millo (talk) 01:15, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Marvel Studios doesn't use "showrunners". And even Variety did an extensive article about it. This is a passive mention, which could be a result of the writer's paraphrasing. I'm pretty sure you're going to see articles that refer to the other head writers or directors as "showrunners" simply because that's what most people are used to. So, we shouldn't take such a passive mention as a confirmation that they're truly showrunners, unless there's like some more formal report about it.

Case in point - this other THR article refers to Bisha K. Ali as the "showrunner" despite Marvel Studios specifically using "head writer" during the announcement the article covers. So, take the word with a grain of salt.— Starforce¹³ 01:32, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo: In my previous comment, what I was trying to say was that us calling El Arbi and Fallah "co-showrunners" doesn't make it clear that they are co-showrunners with Ali, since "co-showrunners" about two people could be easily mistaken for them being the sole two showrunners. But us just saying that the pair of them are running the show with Ali is not completely supported by the sources that we have since the THR article doesn't mention Ali. We know that Marvel doesn't use the showrunner term, they have a head writer (plus a group of writers) and a director on their early shows, and on their later shows they have a head writer (plus a group of writers) and a group of directors. The "co-showrunners" wording from THR is probably enough for us to say that this show has a head writer (plus a group of writers) and head directors (plus a group of directors), with extra support from the fact that they are the only directors listed as executive producers. Whether we are comfortable saying "head directors" is what I think is up for debate. I am leaning towards avoiding specific terms in the lead and just explaining it more in development, for example in the lead we could say The series is produced by Marvel Studios, with Ali serving as head writer and Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah leading the directing team. and then in development we could say something like In September 2020, Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah were hired to direct two episodes of the series, with Meera Menon hired to direct one episode, and Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy hired to direct three episodes. Ali, El Arbi, and Fallah serve as executive producers on the series and worked closely with Marvel Studios to develop the series, with Kamala Khan co-creator Sana Amanat also executive producing. Thoughts? - adamstom97 (talk) 04:55, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I like the "leading the directing team" approach. And then when they start doing press tours, we'll know the exact term that Marvel is using for the lead directors. This will also help us with the other issue regarding which director(s) to list in the list of Marvel Studios tv series.— Starforce¹³ 05:16, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

Agree with both of you. —El Millo (talk) 05:18, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

While we are waiting for confirmation on a similar situation for other series, I wonder if we should use executive producer credits to determine which directors go in the lead / list of TV series table, with similar wording to what is proposed here. So that would mean we could go ahead with Coiro for She-Hulk. If we do that, we could add a note to the header of the tv list table to say that the column just has directors who are also executive producers in it. We would then need to wait for confirmation of executive producers before adding directors to the table for other series. - adamstom97 (talk) 05:40, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I like that wording Adamstom.97 and was going to suggest as well about seeing who will ultimately get EP credit on the episodes. If all directors get EP credit in the very first episode that El Arbi and Fallah directed, then I think these changes are moot and the way we have wording now of just including Ali in the lead works fine. If, however, the situation is that El Arbi and Fallah get EP credit on every episode and the other directors in just the ones they directed, I think we keep this new wording, and make that change at the overview tables to just include the EP-credited directors. But for now, I think if we want to implement Adam's wording, at the very least the development changes, I think we can. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:21, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I have gone ahead and added the new wording as proposed. I am also going to follow-up this thread over at the list of TV shows now. - adamstom97 (talk) 23:34, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

I like the current wording and formatting we have in place on this article, as it does seem we are indeed having lead directors for some series with multiple directors. Now, I don't really see any issues in listing each of the directors in the overview currently as there aren't many per series. If that were to change, naturally we'd reverse course and I'd feel only listing the lead director(s) would be necessary, but I was wondering, currently, if we could rather add an indicator for who the leading director(s) are for the series that have them in the overview by the director(s) names? That could better help explain the situation and involvement, with proper sourcing we already have in place for it, plus hide ones for Rhys Thomas, and maybe Diab and Coiro (though it is quite likely they will be the leading directors from what we already know). I just feel it would be best to keep each of the directors listed rather than pick and choose the lead ones, as with the case of Ms. Marvel, El Arbi and Fallah are the lead directors but only directing two episodes while Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy directed three, so in my view, the other directors are still notable, and a simple note could help explain it the involvement Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:23, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

I feel like that would be the same as listing all of the writers with an indicator for the head writer just because they only wrote one or two episodes themselves (which has been the case so far). If we agree that there are lead directors here, I think we need to be consistent with that at the overview page. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:29, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

References

Fawad Khan

​​​This would appear to be based on Pakistani news reports: [1][2][3], coming off a tweet from a BBC journalist. Although the BBC is listed as reliable on WP:Perennial Sources, this isn't directly from them, and the sources seem to be expressly speculating. Should we hold off on this until an RS such as THR/Variety/Deadline comments? IronManCap (talk) 19:57, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

This may be a verified BBC journalist, but they clearly say in the tweet that they read this on IMDb so we can't use that per WP:FRUIT. - adamstom97 (talk) 20:01, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

This traces to this tweet by Haroon Rashid, who said it because He's listed on the show's official IMDB page, which in itself is unreliable. He then said Marvel yet to comment. Amazing if true!, so this is basically just a baseless rumor so far. —El Millo (talk) 20:05, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Ah, didn't see the IMDB sourcing. Yeah, definite avoid then. IronManCap (talk) 20:40, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Early 2022 Release Date

Matt Webb Mitovich from TVLine said he "asked around and it is very safe to assume at this point that Ms. Marvel is now on track for an early 2022 premiere." [4] [5] If there are no objections, I am going to start changing the announced release dates from Late 2021 to Early 2022. Hummerrocket (talk) 22:04, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

"It's safe to assume" is not confirmation. We can add this, but not as a definite until Marvel or Disney says otherwise. With the recent news that What If is now 9, not 10, episodes, that's an extra week back between the end of that series and Hawkeye that this could still fit between them. Probable? Most likely not, but we can't give this as fact. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:22, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Just regarding that 'this could still fit'. No, the recent EW article on Hawkeye stated that Hawkeye would be the next Marvel Studios live action show after Loki. So, according to the sources, Ms. Marvel cannot air before Hawkeye. The only theoretical option left for 2021 is that it (partially) overlaps with Hawkeye. Of course that's not going to happen, but, I guess it's an option. In theory. UnderIrae (talk) 22:53, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

I would agree with updating the release date to "late 2021 or early 2022", very similar to this article's previous release window (which has since been updated), with prose references to why it's been updated. -- /Alex/₂₁ 04:57, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

The sources being presented have only speculated that the release date may be pushed back to 2022. We shouldn't change the release date unless Marvel or an RS explicitly confirms that is the case. IronManCap (talk) 13:00, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

As of now, we have Marvel's last official confirmation of a release window, which should be for any tables, outside articles, the lead here, and the start of the release section. Then we include the commentary/speculation from third party sources indicating that is likely is no longer a late 2021 release. If Mitovich's report at TVLine was more definitive, sure we could have made the changes everywhere, but it wasn't a full confirmation so as we have it now appears to be as much as we can do until another new source comes along. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:20, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Television series about Islam category

I think it's fair to assume that the show will have some discussion of Kamala's Muslim faith, so it might be a good idea to add "Category:Television series about Islam" to the page. It may be best to wait for release first to make sure, but I just wanted to throw the idea out there before I added it to the page.KingEuronIIIGreyjoy (talk) 17:12, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Wait until the series premieres to see if Islam is significant enough in the show to be considered a defining category. Her being a Muslim doesn't automatically mean the show will revolve around Islam. — Starforce¹³ 17:26, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good. I'm not an expert when it comes to categories/general Wikipedia policy (just a big MCU fan) so I wanted to consult with others before adding it to the page.KingEuronIIIGreyjoy (talk) 20:23, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, the other shows in that cat are specifically of an Islamic genre, mostly historical series. Wait until the series premieres to see whether this is a defining category. IronManCap (talk) 20:27, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

According to Iman Vellani herself, the show will focus on her Pakistani and Islamic roots. It can be safe to register it as such then, no? Source: https://screenrant.com/ms-marvel-show-iman-vellani-kamala-khan-response/ Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:55, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

I think that's a little dubious (quote:I don't really have to go out of my way and talk about being a Muslim and being Pakistani — it all comes out in the show.), so we don't know how much it will be about Islam until the episodes air. IronManCap (talk) 14:04, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

COI edit request

Hello: I work with Living Films and am therefore in a conflict of interest with the articles about the company and its productions. Adhering to the Wikipedia rules for a COI, I am requesting an edit under the filming section in the article about the Ms. Marvel (TV series).

In the second paragraph of the filming section, could we include the following additions in bold font? This content is supported by the Variety source already included in the article - Source #15.

Edit - Filming section, second paragraph

Obaid-Chinoy began filming the fourth and fifth episodes with Living Films production company in Thailand by March 23, specifically in Bangkok and at the Studio Park facilities, with Chris Lowenstein as Line Producer, and Jules L’Oughlin serving as cinematographer for those episodes.

I appreciate your time and consideration! Best, Livingfilms23 (talk) 01:19, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done Per the Variety source we are currently using in article (and provided again above), it states: With Living Films as production services company... which is not a "production company" in this context. As such, there is no need to mention them, as they were only a service provider. Line producers are also generally not a role that needs to be stated within television articles. It should stick to EPs. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:51, 25 February 2022 (UTC)

References

Ms. Marvel's writers room revealed on Ali's instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/CbaAWCIsqo9/ Ali recently revealed the writers' room of the show in this post on Instagram, hope we can add this to the page. -TrixieCat123 (User talk:TrixieCat123) 18:54, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

She doesn't actually say that this is the writers room, just that these are people who have worked on the show, so I don't think we can use that. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:31, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

I concur with adamstom97. And, the statement is too vague to be useful. Shortsword (talk) 05:40, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree, though many do appear to be writers, we don't know exactly what their capacity for this series was. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:01, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

Season finale

Hi. The Futon Critic says that June 8 will be series premiere and season finale at once. What the ...? IKhitron (talk) 19:19, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

Looks like a mistake, there has been no indication that the whole series is being released at once. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:31, 27 March 2022 (UTC)

I just wanted to point out that for TFC, we normally use their showatch listings page for the specific series. The page in question seems like a mistake, as Adam noted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trailblazer101 (talk • contribs) 04:38, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Actually, I always use this particular listing for season finales, it's just the first time it's so weird. IKhitron (talk) 11:43, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Well, I've wrote a mail to the Futon about this. One hour later, they fixed this problem. IKhitron (talk) 16:58, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Very well then. Cheers! Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:58, 2 April 2022 (UTC)

Rotten Tomatoes average rating

If anyone is able to see the average rating, feel free to update it in the reception section. It's not showing up for me all of a sudden, so the 7.45/10 may be outdated. -- Zoo (talk) 19:35, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Review table

@ZooBlazer and Brojam: I'm not seeing anything in the manual of style (MOS:TVRECEPTION) that says a table format shouldn't be used. This is a pretty commonly used template. Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm just keeping it in the format of the other MCU Disney+ series. -- Zoo (talk) 19:36, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Isn't that just WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST? I think that template is really useful for TV series articles so it should be used in this article's reception (& perhaps added to other Disney+ articles). Sariel Xilo (talk) 19:45, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

It's not a commonly used template. [6] In fact, Doctor Who episodes are mostly the only articles that use this template. Since Marvel series have Rotten Tomatoes scores for each episode (Ms. Marvel's first 2 episodes already have individual scores), we should be using {{Television Rotten Tomatoes scores}} as this is a better representation of the critical response of the series, rather than a table duplicating and highlighting scores and grades for select few episodes of the series. - Brojam (talk) 20:18, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Kamala Khan draft

Not sure when you want to move the character article to mainspace, but here's the draft in case anyone wants to work on it: Draft:Kamala Khan (Marvel Cinematic Universe). Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:36, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Azhar Usman as Najaf

I'm having a very hard time finding a source to use for this. All I've gotten (which isn't great) is a cast listing on Just Jared (which is blacklisted and I can't even link here), and then his wife's personal, unverified, Facebook page with this post. Wanted to add these here so editors could help be on the look out as the series goes on to find a source for him, his role, and the character description. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:34, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

@Favre1fan93:, here I found an article on Yahoo! which originates from this article in StyleCaster by SHE Media. I'm not sure if it's reliable but the article's writer Jenzia Burgos is credited as "Entertainment Editor" for the website. —El Millo (talk) 22:11, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

The site itself looks like a reliable site as it's part of Penske Media Corporation, however, just by the construction of the cast list and the descriptions, though they are the bare basics to each character, I am getting WP:MIRROR concerns. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:27, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Adil & Bilall producer credit

In the show's ending credit, when producers are mentioned, "Adil & Bilall" are credited as a single entity. I guess they also need to be credited the same way in the infobox.

Just simply mentioning their first name as Adil and Bilall on separate lines does not sound right to me.

Also, for example, in Wachowskis' movie pages 1 2 3, they are also credited as a single entity in the producer section. فره ور تیش (talk) 13:28, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Seems to make sense to me. At least with writing teams this is often how writing credits are handled (and with an ampersand specifically). It would seem to work for producers as well. I’m no PGA member or anything, though, so I could be wrong. -2pou (talk) 14:25, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

This is more like the Russo brothers, in that they both are credited as Anthony Russo and Joe Russo. They are a team like Adil & Bilall, but they should still each be listed on their own line. The TV and Film projects have consensus not to include "and" or "&" credits for writing/directing/producing teams in the infoboxes. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

I see. It seems to me that Al Arbi and Fallah do not go by first names Adil and Bilall as mononyms. (That's why I was considering "Adil & Bilall" to be similar to Watchowskis and not equal to "Adil Al Arbi + Bilall Fallah".)

Anyway, if the use of "&" is not allowed, wouldn't it make more sense that they would be listed with their full names? فره ور تیش (talk) 16:21, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Also, I was just looking at some Wikipedia entries that had "Penn & Teller" in them. While there was not a uniform formatting across the pages, in some of them the infoboxes credited Penn & Teller together 1 2 3. فره ور تیش (talk) 16:42, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

We should match how they are credited for the infobox and episode table, with a piped link to their article. We have it formatted in the lead as "Adil & Bilall (Adil El Arbi and Bilall Fallah)" and in the prose in "Production" we mention how they are credited as such, despite us using their last names in most instances. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 23:49, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

This is no different than Bert & Bertie being credited together as a duo in the Hawkeye page. Adil & Bilal should be credited as a single entry duo as per the credits instead of separately. - Richiekim (talk) 15:52, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

It is slightly different, because "Bert & Bertie" are not really reductions of their actual names. So yes, we're using Adil & Bilal in the episodes table, infobox, lead, and first mention in the Production section, but El Arbi and Fallah are acceptable outside of those instances, especially since the media interviews also attribute quotes and such using their last names. Whereas with Bert and Bertie, they use "Bert" or "Bertie", not Amber Templemore-Finlayson or Katie Ellwood. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:34, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Kamran

The article currently describes Kamran as the "male lead of the series" in the casting section, based on this article from Deadline. Unless the trailer and promos significantly understated his role in the series, I'm pretty sure we can't call him a lead character. So either Deadline made a mistake or there was a change of plans. InfiniteNexus (talk) 03:42, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

WP:BOLDly removed if there are no objections. InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:56, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

IMDb review bombing

Should we add some info regarding the series being review bombed on IMDb? It's been pretty well covered on a variety of sites.

1. CBR
2. ComicBook.com
3. Screen Rant

-- Zoo (talk) 17:19, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

I think that makes sense as a subsection in Reception. Here are a few more sources:

• Of Course ‘Ms. Marvel’ is Getting Review Bombed via The Mary Sue
• 'Ms. Marvel' Review Bombing Called 'Racist White Replacement Nonsense' via Newsweek
• Ms. Marvel Director Responds to Review-Bombing via The Direct

Sariel Xilo (talk) 17:44, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

This happened too with Moon Knight, where the review-bombing stuff was moved to the last paragraph of The Goldfish Problem § Reception. If episode 1 is solely the only being review-bombed, then I think noting it in Generation Why (Ms. Marvel) § Reception is good. — SirDot (talk) 18:37, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

It’s becoming an every-time occurrence between projects CreecregofLife (talk) 19:13, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

In this situation, it's for the series, not episode 1 like MK. -- Zoo (talk) 21:33, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

In that case, I think it's worthy for inclusion at a paragraph in Reception. — SirDot (talk) 21:38, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Based on how Google defines “review bombing” I don’t see how this applies to this particular shows current 6.1 IMDB rating. For starters (and really proves my point all by itself). There are a total of 12,933 ten star reviews and 10,385 one star reviews. If anything the false ten star reviews are assisting this shows current 6.1 rating. So someone thinks that posting a link to the Mary Sue article is definitive proof that this show is being review bombed even though they didn’t list any actual data to prove their theory. Instead they blamed it on racist, white, right wingers, lololol. Of the over 200 one star written reviews, only 31 of the accounts had been created within the week of the review. Usually when a show is being review bombed you will see a lot of new accounts created specifically for leaving poor reviews. Question: Based on the data I provided (which is what should be used to form an opinion), how can someone definitively say this review is being review bombed? Answer: They read Mary Sue articles and believe opinions are facts. The link is to the rating page of this 3 star show. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10857164/ratings WhowinsIwins (talk) 11:02, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Based on Google's definition ("A review bomb is an Internet phenomenon where a large number of people—or in other cases, a few people with multiple accounts—leave negative user reviews online.") this very much *is* review bombing. Your original research doesn't constitute facts. The reporting on it, however, does and these news outlets all agree that it is being review bombed. Just because it is seemingly unsuccessful doesn't make it not "review bombing". And lets not pretend that written reviews are indications of review bombing. Also, you're claim that they are "blaming it on racist, white, right wingers" is kinda laughable when if you go read the 1 star reviews they all just fit right into that category by being downright racist, continuously calling it "woke", blaming "feminism", etc.--YannickFran (talk) 12:05, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Also the review bombing was after the premiere, which is what the references mention. The score has obviously changed in 2 weeks with people trying to balance the initial 1 star wave. -- Zoo (talk) 14:15, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Cast members commented out in top.

Is there a reason for Fawad Khan and Aramis Knight to be commented out? They appear in the cast list. KaraLG84 (talk) 21:29, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Their roles have not been revealed. — SirDot (talk) 22:11, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Ah I see. Just thought I'd check as I thought someone had done it accidentally. KaraLG84 (talk) 12:35, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

No, their roles are revealed. It's that they were previously expected to be starring actors from previous press material, but they have yet to be confirmed as such in the series as neither have appeared yet. When they do appear, and they are confirmed either way as being a starring actor, they will be unhidden or removed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:15, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Either way I'm glad I asked on here rather than just deleting the comment markup. :) KaraLG84 (talk) 16:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Episode infobox posters

It seems like these are the closest to a collection of posters that this series is gonna get. All done by different artists, but I think they'd work for the individual episodes.

1. Episode 1
2. Episode 2
3. Episode 3

-- Zoo (talk) 06:36, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@ZooBlazer: Those look like the best way to go! - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:22, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Cast member order and spelling

Gave up on this self-declared "unreliable source" since long enough to care about miscellaneous forms of error and misinformation, especially those pertaining to minutae South Asia, West Asia and to a still-considerable extent, the whole of Africa (including North Africa). But why is Ms Nimra Bucha's first-/given-name is repeatedly misspelled? Especially given as a dual-citizen IRL, she would presumably be more higher-profile thespian (i.e. recognisable to those even outside the relevant diaspora) than most of the non-Anglospherical casting in this "cinematic TV" project. It confuses her with fellow, significantly senior Pakistani actress at Best, or in spite of my good-faith assumption, is bound to come across as some ad hominem pun on her name with an Indian domestic conglomerate with widely-popular ad-films for their flagship detergent products since the 70s. Also, not to deliberately get on your wrong foot but if you're deliberately distinguishing between "main end-on" billing vis-à-vis the end-titles with full-cast (unlike, say.. Now deprecated but widely-accepted IMDb) to list "Main"/"Regular" cast for a TV miniseries which does not abide by the SAG-AFTRA protocol of overtly segregated billing of "Starring (not necessarily prefixed but the earliest of all in the performers' credit)", "Guest Starring" or "Special Guest Star[s]" or "Special Appearance[s] By" and last-tier of the SAG-covered performers, "Co-starring". I would wager while that is the convention in "the spirit", if not literally "the letter" for MOS:TVCAST under WP:TV. But we already also do know that pre-existing, self-owned franchise derived outputs premiering on any Disney+-affiliated service does not follow this near-uniform conventions of cast-billing across North American TV industries, so if you are doing so for arranging "Cast" section orders when the miniseries shall finally conclude, I would be also be wary of excessive caution since "104", which explicitly introduces "Special Guest Star" billing in the format that I have found you also got wrong, given that fortunately, you are not paying attention to even more excessive stuff like per-card billing format as inconsequential for the section [for the Best], since it has already been fluctuating "installment"-by-"installment" (read episode-by-episode) in less than 4 main-end on titles alone. —223.189.238.113 (talk) 23:23, 2 July 2022 (UTC) Edited 23:28, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

What even is this rant CreecregofLife (talk) 16:02, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Google Doc about Partition

Bisha K. Ali and writer Fatimah Asghar compiled a Google Doc (here) about articles and art discussing Partition. (Confirmed it was compiled by them here.) Is this an appropriate to use as an external link? It's definitely centered on Partition, but it's done through the lens for viewers who witness it in this series and want to learn more. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:38, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

I think there can be a valid argument to include this, as it is from the series' creator to inform viewers (and as such readers of this article) more about Partition, and given the context of it within the series and the intent behind it, I would support including it as an external link, unless there was any commentary or information from Ali, Asghar, or others on how it correlates to the series more or if it was used by any other crew. Trailblazer101 (talk) 04:53, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

 Added - Favre1fan93 (talk) 02:16, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

Kamala's genes

Can we explicitly say and link to places that she's a mutant? Bruno says "mutation", and while that traditionally indicates the mutant race (and eventually X-Men) from the comics, it's possible the MCU is going to alter that. I've included right now this Inverse article that questions such, using more "implying" wording (which I've tried to mimic in article), as well as the Marvel.com article which curiously makes no mention of mutants at all, to support a little from Ali on why it was done. Definitely want other's thoughts so we all are on the same page of how we address this across other relevant articles. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:14, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

I think the best we can say currently is a variation of the wording I used in the article here: "Kamala has a genetic "mutation", which is implies she is a mutant through a musical excerpt of the X-Men: The Animated Series theme." - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:23, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

New quote from Iman Vellani: I'm a huge X-Men fan and what an incredible honour to be the first official mutant in the mcu!!! (source). I think that's good enough for us to say that she is, in fact, a mutant. Alternatively, there's this interview with Bisha K. Ali, though she never explicitly says Kamala is a mutant. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:34, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Yup, I saw the Vellani one last night too. That works for me, and is good enough for us to use across our articles. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:52, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

Episode draft links

Here are the current episode drafts for anyone that is looking for them or wants to help edit them so that they can be moved to the mainspace. I will update the list as new drafts are created and if any move to the mainspace.

1. Generation Why - Moved to mainspace
2. Crushed - Moved to mainspace
3. Destined - Moved to mainspace
4. Seeing Red - Moved to mainspace
5. Time and Again - Moved to mainspace
6. No Normal - Moved to mainspace

-- Zoo (talk) 22:52, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

'Review Bombing'

The articles cited to prove review bombing don't actually provide any evidence, rather simple speculation. Multiple low reviews can be indicative of a show not being enjoyed by the audience. I think we should be careful asserting that something has been intentionally review bombed. 23.233.77.108 (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2022 (UTC)