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Talk:Mouse Morris

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Certainly a big improvement. I knew absolutely nothing about Morris's riding career, so it was interesting as well. I think a good next step would be to replace the "Infobox sportsman" with "Infobox horseracing personality". You can see an example of how it looks at Henry Cecil. It's a good little template, but hardly anyone ever uses it. I would make very sparing use of the man's own website as it isn't independent of the subject. The Racing Post website is excellent for results and stats since 1988, for example [1]. It would be interesting to get a source on how he came by the "Mouse" nickname. I think we also need a reference to War Of Attrition, who gave Mouse his finest hour. Tigerboy1966  21:55, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Much improved. Always been a fan of his and good to see the article shaping up now. I've fixed some links today and taken out some of the more descriptive words but in general terms this isn't bad.--Bcp67 (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mother's name

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It's strange to have information about his mother having been a cryptographer, and not mentioning any normal info, like her name...85.157.155.247 (talk) 07:32, 31 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Have added additional information regarding his mother Finnegas (talk) 14:35, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Copying and close paraphrasing

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This article was expanded in August 2012 with content closely paraphrased and copied from the official site. For one example, compare the following passage from that date:

Source Article
He came within a short head of winning the 1991 Irish Grand National and three weeks later he was controversially disqualified in the Whitbread Gold Cup having finished first past the post. He also had the dubious honour of finishing second in the infamous 1993 Aintree Grand National which was voided following a shambolic start. He came within a short head of winning the 1991 Irish Grand National and three weeks later he was controversially disqualified in the Whitbread Gold Cup having finished first past the post. He also had the dubious distinction of finishing second in the infamous 1993 Aintree Grand National which was voided following a shambolic false start.

I have bolded precisely duplicated text to make the copying more clear.

Much of this material has subsequently been polished, but close paraphrasing remains an issue. For instance, our article still says, "He also had the dubious distinction of finishing second in the 1993 Grand National which was voided following a false start" One word changed and a few words removed, but this is otherwise still identical to the source.

There are very likely other passages that follow closely on that source and its surrounding pages - certainly there was strong copying in the beginning. This problem could be fixed by reverting to the last clean version or rewriting problematic passages after a close comparison.

The essay Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing contains some suggestions for how such problematic passages can be rewritten.

This flag will place this article automatically at the copyright problems board for review. It may be some time before an administrator or other copyright cleaner comes to check on the article, given the backlog there. It would be wonderful if those who are experienced with the subject matter could help out. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:36, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that issues regarding the close paraphrasing has been dealt with during the DYK process Finnegas (talk) 21:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Our article still says, "He also had the dubious distinction of finishing second in the 1993 Grand National which was voided following a false start"
One word changed and a few words removed, but this is otherwise still identical to the source. This clearly hasn't been rewritten; there may be other content as well. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:32, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Here is another issue:
[2] Article when added Article now
He was among the top novice hurdlers of his generation, finishing second to Istabraq in the 1998 AIG Champion Hurdle on just his fourth racecourse outing before again finishing the runner-up berth in the Supreme Novice Hurdle. Morris trained His Song who was among the top novice hurdlers of his generation. He finishing second to Istabraq in the 1998 AIG Champion Hurdle on his fourth racecourse outing before again finishing the second Supreme Novice Hurdle. Morris trained His Song who was among the top novice hurdlers of his generation.[6] His Song finished second to Istabraq in the 1998 AIG Irish Champion Hurdle on his fourth racecourse outing before again finishing second in the Supreme Novice Hurdle at Leopardstown.
This content has not changed much since it was placed here. Again, I have bolded precise duplication. There are a few words omitted from the source and a couple of changes, but otherwise, this is very similar in structure and language. I don't know if other content remains similar, but it would be good to give the article a thorough check to rewrite any such lingering derivative content. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 23:54, 3 December 2012
Look I am aware that it has not changed dramatically nonetheless, I feel it has changes sufficiently not to be classed as ""close paraphasing"".The article was passed for DYK were much text was altered and it was no longer deemed to contain ""close paraphasing""

please see Template:Did you know nominations/Mouse Morris [3] + [4] + [5]

Finnegas (talk) 20:24, 5 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid I disagree. I've provided you several examples where the language has followed the source nearly verbatim. This constitutes close paraphrasing. Looking at the changes you are making, I'm afraid that you may be working from the misunderstanding that switching out words with synonyms can make the difference. To avoid close paraphrasing, not only language but structure should be original. Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing contains some suggestions for how to write to avoid these problems. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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