Talk:Mosaic covenant

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mosaic covenant article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 730 days

Religion: Interfaith Mid‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of Interfaith work group, a work group which is currently considered to be inactive.

Christianity Mid‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Judaism Mid‑importance

	Judaism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Bible Mid‑importance

	Bible portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bible, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Bible on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BibleWikipedia:WikiProject BibleTemplate:WikiProject BibleBible articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Talks around the subject.

It says stuff like: "The establishment and stipulations of the Mosaic Covenant..." but never hints, much less explains what the terms of the covenant are. This should be in the Lead: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lead section).--71.133.254.31 (talk) 17:30, 29 March 2014 (UTC)Doug Bashford[reply]

I agree with Doug - the article is missing important points of the covenant tradition that are prominent in the Mosaic Covenant - like the ratification in blood (Exodus 24:6-8) and the stipulations(e.g. Deuteronomy 11:1-32). It seems to major on the arguments of one interpreter, Mendenhall, at the expense of basic explanations. I will put them in the lead as Doug suggests.Myheck (talk) 17:29, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Adding historical/regional context to the Mosaic covenant

Hi, I'm a student at Miami University in a class about the Hebrew Bible. I found some information in an article by George E. Mendenhall about Hittite suzerainty treaties and how they compare to the Mosaic covenant (particularly the Decalogue), and I think it would add some interesting context to this article. Sctimmons (talk) 17:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Rediscovering the Mosaic Covenant

I'm a university student who's taking a class about the Hebrew Bible. In an article written by George E. Mendenhall the Mosaic Covenant is brought back during the reign of King Josiah. Moses is viewed as a representative of Yahweh and his status is symbolized through being a first person speaker in the new covenant. ^[1] kk_1291 (talk) 13:12, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Mendenhall, George E. "Covenant Forms in Israelite Tradition". 17 (3): 73–75. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)

Covenant example

I think this article could benefit from having an example of what kind of covenants were found in the Ancient Near East. For example, the covenant made between God and Abraham, with the decalogue, would be informative.

A treaty is an agreement between two groups, one being of a higher power than the other. The suizerain, the masters, reaped the benefits of the agreement and the vassal, servants, would have the obligation to fulfill the stipulations that are presented in the treaty. If the treaty was broken for any reason, the blame was put on the servants and they were cursed, according to scholar M. Weinfeld. ^[1] One group that is known for being the first to document this type of agreement was the Hittites. The purpose of this treaty was to ensure future loyalty and alliance of the vassal since the suzerain had previously done favors for them. This is the type of treaty made with Abraham when God presents him with the Decalogue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TWloveandhonor (talk • contribs) 17:51, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I think this paragraph gives a good understanding of a treaty. You represent what Weinfeld was saying. It is a little confusing containing more then one topic, but it shows the overall picture behind the covenant between God and Abraham. If you want to try to focus it more on one topic I would either talk more about treaties in general and present support or focus on the covenant between God and Abraham. Overall, I think it a good paraphrase of the main point Weinfeld was trying to prove. AL2015 (talk) 19:49, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

TWloveandhonor, your paragraph may work on its own, but please look how it is placed in the article. (I'm not sure why you didn't put it under the heading of historical-scholarship, but anyway….) It follows the lead, and goes right into the issue of treaty, without any way for the reader to know how the Mosaic covenant is connected to the notion of treaty. Thanks! ProfGray (talk) 15:09, 16 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Weinfeld, M. "The Covenant of Grant in the Old Testament and in the Ancient near East". Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 90, No. 2 (Apr. - Jun., 1970), pp. 184-203.

Additional Perspective

I'm currently a student studying the Old Testament utilizing an academic approach. That being said, I have been studying Mendenhall and Weinfeld's work regarding their research on biblical covenants. I think it's important to mention that despite varying theories pertaining to the creation of covenants, there are two main types of covenants exposed throughout the Toarah. The two covenants include: 1. an obligatory covenant, or "treaty" as evidenced through the covenant between Yahweh and Israel & 2. a promissory covenant, or "royal grant" as evidenced by the Abrahamic and Davidic covenant. Sunshine619 (talk) 18:01, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccurate, generally a mess

An article with so many scholars commenting shouldn't have such glaring errors as "As stated in the bible, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are the descendants of Israel." Can someone please clean this whole thing up? Bervin61 (talk) 04:49, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Mendenhall, George E. "Covenant Forms in Israelite Tradition". 17 (3): 73–75. {{cite journal}}: Cite journal requires |journal= (help)

[2] Weinfeld, M. "The Covenant of Grant in the Old Testament and in the Ancient near East". Journal of the American Oriental Society, Vol. 90, No. 2 (Apr. - Jun., 1970), pp. 184-203.

[1]

[1]