Talk:Morleigh Steinberg

Article organization

Good to see this finally in the main space. The biggest question I have regarding it concerns organization. Right now if you read the article, the chronology bounces around a lot. We go from early life to 1987 to 2002 to 1997 to 1999 to 2006 to 1983 to 1990s to 2003 to 2010 to 1987 to 1992.

I would suggest reorganizing the article so that it's in better chronological order:

• Early life and education (same as now)
• Early career and work with U2 (1980s, MOMIX, With or Without You, Joshua Tree Tour, Zoo TV, belly dancer)
• Marriage and family (relationship with Edge develops, live together, children, marriage ceremony)
• Subsequent career (Oguri, Xing, work in Ireland, etc)

I think this would make more sense, and would allow us to portray her life more as it developed. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Your additions and reorganization are great. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:56, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Which English variant

Another thing that needs deciding upon is, per MOS:ENGVAR, which English variant to use in this article - American English or British/Irish English. Right now it's a mixture of both. Usually MOS:TIES tells us which to use, but this is a mixed case - she's American but her life is heavily tied to Irish-related activities and virtually all U2-related articles are in British/Irish English. (One possible precedent is Chrissie Hynde which is in British English because the Pretenders are a British-based band, even though she is American.) I don't have a strong preference so what do Miss Bono or Cullen328 think? Wasted Time R (talk) 12:26, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I think British English is better. But I don't know if I can change the whole article by myself 'cause I am not a native English speaker.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 13:23, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

As far as I can see this is a one word problem "leukemia" and no big deal. I have made the changes mentioned above and copy edited for style spelling and POv. Theroadislong (talk) 13:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

It mostly affects date formatting, especially in the cites. I've switched over to British English per the creator's desire. Wasted Time R (talk) 10:34, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree with British English per Miss Bono's request, and for the sake of consistency. If I inadvertently introduce Americanisms, please feel free to make adjustments. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:59, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Article Importance

How can we change the ??? Importance in WP U2??  Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:00, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Categories

Is there another category for this article??  Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:52, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Image

Is anyone working on a photo of her? If not, does anyone have a bunch of contacts I can email to ask for one? Thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:02, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

One strategy that sometimes works is to find one you like on Flickr, and then contact the photographer and ask if they'll change the license for it to something compatible with Wikimedia Commons/Wikipedia use per Wikipedia:Upload/Flickr. There are some good ones of her there, including both dancing and with spouse (the ones of Bono, Ali, Edge, and Morleigh at the Spiderman opening would also help solve the lack of images at Ali Hewson). Of course asking the photographer to give up their full copyright can be a tough sell ... Wasted Time R (talk) 11:12, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Good plan. I've never written to a Flickr user to ask. What are my chances? I think a pic of her with her husband would be harder to get, so maybe the user would upload a cropped pic of Steinberg. Thoughts? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:45, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I can't find any way to contact here. No agent. No website. No organization she's currently working with. Do you know what she's doing right now? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:49, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Her contact information is on her Flickr profile page. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:01, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I meant Morleigh Steinberg's info. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

You can find Morleigh's here at the Arcane Collective website. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

A lot of quotations

Per Wikipedia:Quotations, isn't this article a bit heavy on quotations? Wouldn't paraphrasing be best? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I would agree with that.Theroadislong (talk) 19:55, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

(ec) Yes, that's true (and I may have made it a bit worse). I've been trying to honor Miss Bono and Cullen328's original style in the article and not overrun it with my own normal approach, as I add material to fill in the biography. There's also an issue in that some of the original non-quoted text is too close to the sources and needs paraphrasing. Wasted Time R (talk) 19:56, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

I have reduced the length of some of the quotes, substituting partial paraphrases, and paraphrased the lengthy quote toward the end. If either of you can identify sections that are too closely paraphrased from original sources, I will be happy to rewrite them. My general approach is to use a few colorfully worded quotations, properly cited, to add flavor and color to an article. That being said, I agree that they needed to be reduced in this article, which is a collaboration with Miss Bono. English is a second language for her. She is working very hard to be a useful contributor and deserves a lot of credit, I believe. Thank you both very much for your input. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:03, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I agree she deserves a lot of credit. She's the one who recognized the lack of an article where one was merited, and without her, this article would not exist. Wasted Time R (talk) 20:12, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

And thanks to all of you from me. Sorry to hassle you so much. I feel like I'm butting in. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:13, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Not at all, Anna, I appreciate your input. I usually work pretty much alone on new articles, so it is good for me to have additional eyes on things. I don't want anything inappropriate to slip through. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:21, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you kindly. Well, two things: consider a DYK and find articles containing "Morleigh Steinberg" and make the inbound link. What the heck, I'll do the latter now. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I'm definitely planning on a DYK (unless one of the original creators wants to do it) and am keeping the five-day window since the article hit the main space in mind. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:29, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK: nice to hear. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I found six and added the links. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:31, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your support, guys. I am doing the best I can. English is not my native language and is not hard but ain't either easy for me. I need a lot of help and I appreciate all your efforts for the contributions.

And also I am willing to help in anything I can.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:59, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

I've now put the article up at DYK, see Template:Did you know nominations/Morleigh Steinberg for the nomination. I've listed Miss Bono, Cullen328, Theroadislong, and myself as the creators. The hook I proposed is a bit on the hooky side, but that's the idea of DYK ... but if anyone else wants to propose an ALT hook, feel free. The article could still use a little copyediting, but I wanted to get it up before the deadline ... Wasted Time R (talk) 03:00, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

Picture

User:Keri Found a few Morleigh pics on Flickr and a few other sites, but unfortunately none that were released under a license that would allow use on Wikipedia. User:Keri did notice that Zimbio releases their staff-generated content under a Creative Commons license but there were no staff pics of Steinberg; worth keeping an eye on them, though.  Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:26, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Possible edits by subject

A few days ago a new user named Arcanecollective made several changes to this article, and I think it likely that the user is either Steinberg or a representative of Steinberg who works for her production company Arcane Collective. The edits, made with no comments and no sources cited, were as follows, with my comments afterward.

• Changed year of birth from 1961 to 1964.
  • This is a tough one; we have one source that says 1961 and another source that is consistent with 1964. Most profiles of her don't mention her age or a vague about it. There's no guarantee that the year that this editor changed it to is the actual one or is not the actual one. Lacking better information, I've changed the text to "1961 or 1964" and shown both cites.
    • See update in next section. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:19, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
• Changed description of father from "wealthy lawyer for the American film industry" to "a workman's compensation lawyer".
  • This runs against the source given and does not have a new source to support. Maybe this Robert Steinberg, who is a lawyer in workers compensation issues, is her father, but it's a common name and I can't be sure. And it's possible he worked for the film industry in the past.
    • I've taken another look at this one. The 2002 People magazine piece on the wedding identifies him as just a Los Angeles lawyer, and the 2010 Irish Times piece as just a lawyer. People gives his age as 74 in 2002, which would mean born around 1928, which matches with the college and law school graduation years in the workmen comp's law firm bio above. And that guy does share a resemblance with the Steinberg sisters. It's only the 2003 Times article which says wealthy movie lawyer, and maybe they got it wrong out of confusion with her mother's film industry background. On the other hand I tried but couldn't find anything that tied the workmen comp bio Robert Steinberg above to Morleigh or her sisters or California Coastal Commission case on The Edge's development. Given all this, I've taken the conservative approach and changed the article to say just "a lawyer in Los Angeles". Wasted Time R (talk) 11:19, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
• Added another sister, Eliza, and gave birth order of the three.
  • Good change; I found a cite that, combined with an existing cite, supports this.
• Deleted "with mixed results" characterization of the New York Times reviews of ISO performances in 1988–1993.
  • Bad change, as "mixed" is a very fair characterization of those reviews. I've reverted the change and added excerpts from the reviews in the footnote to support the contention.
• Changed number of guests at wedding from 250 to 200.
  • The source says 250, but maybe they had it wrong. I changed the text to "200 or more guests" to fudge it.
• Fixed a typo "Le Barocguy" to "Le Brocquy".
  • Good change.
• Reworded the reference to Paul Chavez aka FeltLike.
  • Part of the problem here was the Paul Chavez article was incorrectly located. I've fixed that and rephrased this reference.
• Added New York performance of Cold Dream Colour in 2013.
  • Good addition; I've added a cite that supports this and reworded/linked it per MoS.

Since WP:BLP and WP:COI likely apply here, I wanted to make clear what has been done. Wasted Time R (talk) 16:36, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

That all looks fine to me.Theroadislong (talk) 16:48, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Good work. She's been contacted for a photo, so that brought the article to her attention. There is a username violation, though. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 20:11, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Am I missing something? Miss Bono (zootalk) 13:19, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Another edits on Morleigh

Cullen328 and myself have a Mentorship page where we discuss stuffs related to articles we want to create or expand. We worked on Morleigh Steinberg there and a few drafts remain. Recently (today) some IP add some information that match with the one User:Arcanecollective add on 22 May, like her entire birth date: October 18, 1964... I don't know whether I should add it to the article or not. Can someone help?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 13:52, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

There was no reference so we cannot add it.Theroadislong (talk) 13:57, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

If it was the same user, there would be probably someone telling him/her the rules here, because if it's good information there would be fair to have a good source. Is there any way to know if they are the same user?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 14:01, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Only a checkuser could determine that, and that process is reserved for chronic sockpuppetry and severely disruptive editing. It is best to ignore this stuff. If we find a reliable source with the date, we will add it. The birth date is not essential. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:33, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

That IP address geolocates to Ireland, so it is tempting to believe it. And now that we know what to look for, I see there is evidence that October 18 is her birthday, see this page and this page about the October 18, 1992 Zoo TV show in Kansas City, where a birthday cake was brought out for Morleigh the belly dancer. But the year is still a bit of a question. Wasted Time R (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Ya!! You see I was not wrong. Look Wasted Time R, when I first wrote the article (as a draft in the mentorship page) Cullen add some material for me to work on and one of those said that she was 27 and the article was released in 1992, after some calculation I made I found out that Morleigh was born on 1964. This morning I saw on my watchlist that some IP address had change the date and put Oct 18 1964 (the same IP you say is located in Ireland), all this after User:Arcanecollective change the birth date in Morleigh's article for 1961 to 1964 (I frist added 1964 to the article but someone else changed it to 1961). Anyway, if this is Morleigh we might keep this whole stuff in a low-profile so she is more able to edit and add information That's my thought. Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:34, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I've sent an e-mail to the feedback address at Hot Press (couldn't find a direct one for Adrienne Murphy, the reporter) to try to find out what was behind the 1961 date they gave, which is what we are using as a source. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:24, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Never heard from Hot Press, but I've taken a fresh look at all the sources and that 1961 date they give cannot be correct. The 2010 Irish Times profile says she was 18 in 1983 when she returned from a year in Paris and joined MOMIX. The January 1981 Los Angeles Times describes a high school performance she was in at the time; if she was really born in 1961, she'd be 19 going on 20 which is exceedingly unlikely in an American high school. The October 1964 birth date fits really well, however. 1980-81 is her junior year in high school and she is in the dance performance. She graduates around June 1982, she goes to Paris for a year, turning 18 that October; sometime in mid 1983 she returns to the U.S., she stops on the East Coast and meets up with Pendleton and MOMIX and joins them. Everything fits. One apparent glitch might be that the 1992 Daily News of Los Angeles piece was published on October 19, 1992 and gives her age as 27, when she would have turned 28 the day before. But I bought the full article and it's in the lifestyle section of the paper and it's part of a weekly "Monday Profile" series; those kind of soft features are often prepared well in advance, and this one reads like it was being held until the Zoo TV Tour came around to Los Angeles. So I think October 18, 1964 is intend the birth date to go with and I'm changing and citing/footnoting our article accordingly. Wasted Time R (talk) 01:51, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your research, Wasted Time R, sorry that you had to buy the article. It is great to have the article more clear... :) Take a look at this Jim and u 2 Theroadislong Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

It's no problem, Miss Bono, I've bought stories from newspaper archives on a number of occasions, once I narrowed down which ones I really needed. I figure, if I'm presuming to write these highly visible biographies of people, I'd better be willing to invest a few bucks in the cause of getting it right. (Of course, WP editors who are students or otherwise don't have extra money to spend are not so obligated.) Now that I'm satisfied these issues have been resolved, I've put the article up for GA. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Great idea Wasted Time R, we are still waiting for a pict that Morleigh said she was gonna upload Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:59, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Username violation

Miss Bono, I was referring to "Arcanecollective" which violates WP:USERNAME in my opinion, as a promotional name as well as implying a shared name. Do others agree? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 15:39, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree. this is my guess -- User:Arcanecollective saw the message Theroadislong drop on his/her talk page (about changing the username), and started to editing about the same information under an IP address. If theuser belongs to Steinberg or a representative of Steinberg who works for her production company Arcane Collective he/she won't show up. Am I right??-- Again, that's my guess. If users like Theroadislong and Wasted Time R give their thoughts it would be better than mine :) Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:53, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I think your theory is a good one, Laura, but we can't know for sure. Sometimes , our long list of "rules and regulations" can scare people off. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 16:04, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

That's the reason I told you to drop a friendly message explaining these "tough" stuffs in a nice way, we can tell her/him to take a look at this page (talk for Morleigh's article) so he/she can decided if he/she would like to help . When I first came Wikipedia I started editing as Ali Hewson, I didn't know about the rules; I even add some stupid things on Bono's article, like favourite food and those silly things; Wikipedia was like a new toy for me. then some user, I think it was Wasted Time R drop a message for me (the same Theroadislong posted on Arcanecollective page), and the first thing that came to my mind was "Holy S**t! what a mess" I thought WP was like a forum. I then had to ask Wasted Time R for an explanation, but that was me that I have time for this, I guess Morleigh or her staff at Arcane Collective don't have the same time that I have. So, we can even ask this user if he/she wants for us to make the changing username request. Thoughts on ALL OF THIS??? :D Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:13, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

WP:BIOSELF gives some guidance to people if they see problems in Wikipedia articles about themselves. Those are the steps that Morleigh or her staff should probably follow. Wasted Time R (talk) 16:32, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

But we cannot suggest her that, she clearly doesn't want to be recognized (first she edited as Arcanecollective, and when she saw problems with the username started to editing as an IP), we may help, I think. And among everything we should must keep this in a very very low-profile Miss Bono (zootalk) 16:42, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I believe the proverbial cat is out of the bag here and it will be quite impossible to stuff it back in. (The difficulty with herding cats and they never come when they are called, or whatever...) This is the public Wikipedia that anyone and everyone can see, read and edit and y'all have discussed the fur out of this. Not to mention the hissing that now resides on your mentorship page. ツ Fylbecatulous talk 17:05, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

• What do you mean with all that?? Miss Bono (zootalk) 17:58, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I was just smiling at the thought of now keeping this in a very very low profile, as you said we must. Fylbecatulous talk 02:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I just noticed this thread. I asked arcane to simply make a new account. The matter was raised before at the editor's talk, but was a bit lost in a wall of text, so may not have been read. Thanks, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:03, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Anna Frodesiak so, it was morleigh or it was someone on arcane?? And... not so funny Fylbecatulous, we have to do what's best if we don't want to mess things up Miss Bono (zootalk) 03:39, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

We have no idea who arcane is, and we must take care not to out them. All we know is that the name is a known organization's name, and so it should be changed or abandoned. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:03, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

ec Thank you Anna I was just writing the very same thing!Theroadislong (talk) 08:05, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I get it. So I will step back form this discussion and I will focus in what I had planed to do with other articles. Anna Frodesiak, you should close this discussion. Miss Bono (zootalk) 12:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually, nobody really needs to close discussions. They just sort of end. :) But some discussions can be collapsed or archived in certain circumstances. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:50, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

ohhk! :P Miss Bono (zootalk) 15:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Morleigh Steinberg/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cirt (talk · contribs) 19:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I will review this article. — Cirt (talk) 19:11, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Good article nomination on hold

This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of June 15, 2013, compares against the six good article criteria:

1. Well written?:

1. NOTE: Please respond, below the entire GA Review, and not interspersed in these comments, thanks!
2. I did some minor copyediting but there are still a few paragraphs that are quite short. Such as one-sentence-long paragraphs or two-sentence-long-paragraphs. Please try to merge this info elsewhere, or expand upon these paragraphs.
3. Please submit this article to copyediting requests through the WP:GOCE process, it might not be done in time for this review, but that's okay.
4. Please post to talk pages of relevant WikiProjects asking for previously uninvolved editors to copyedit.
5. Early career and work with U2 - perhaps this sect can be split up keeping the main sect title but with two smaller subsects as well?
6. Marriage and family - seems jumbled together. Why is Subsequent career after this sect, when it contains info that appears concurrently?

2. Factually accurate?:

1. I'm sorry but there are serious problems here.
2. Cite number one is a big fail. It fails WP:BLP, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NOR, and WP:SYNTH. That has got to go. The birthdate has got to go. I see it is also included in the infobox. An edit to Wikipedia is not itself a source, certainly not for a BLP. Best to stick to secondary sources.
3. Cite number 14 is not a cite. It is a link to an archive asking the reader to then do their own research. This also fails WP:SYNTH bigtime.
4. Please go back through all cites and use WP:CIT formatting and WP:CITE to expand upon fields. Examples include cites 4 and 48. Author? Date? Volume? Issue? Page number? Publisher?

3. Broad in coverage?:

1. Early life and education = any more on this? Can this section be expanded a bit more?
2. External links - any other relevant links that could be added?
3. Further reading - perhaps add a further reading sect with 4-5 additional sources for the curious reader?
4. See also - consider adding a See also sect with some relevant links, 3-4 or so?
5. Portals - consider adding portals to the bottom of the page using {{Portal bar}}.

4. Neutral point of view?:

1. My NPOV alarm bells are going off due to the poor judgment about Cite 1, as described, above.
2. Cite 14 is also a problem, as described, above. It's one thing for a secondary source like Rotten Tomatoes to aggregate information. It's another to simply ask the reader "see here".

5. Article stability?

1. Inspection of article edit history shows lots of recent changes, including some controversy. I note edit summaries like "restore info", etc.
2. Talk page inspection shows a great deal of back and forth discussion.
3. Is this article stable?
4. I'd appreciate a statement about article stability from the GA Nominator, and a brief summation of the talk page discussion and what has been going on lately with all the activity at this article.

6. Images?: One image used, File:1993 - Zooropa Tour 1993-05-15 - Lisbon mysterious ways em alvalade 93 640.jpg, image checks out okay.

NOTE: Please respond, below the entire GA Review, and not interspersed in these comments, thanks!

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far. — Cirt (talk) 03:11, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the review. On the three major points first:

• Regarding the birth date, I think the research and logic behind it was sound, but you are correct, there is no secondary source that directly gives that date. So I have removed everything related to birth date or year.
• Regarding the New York Times reviews, I don't see what I did as SYNTH, but people can disagree, so I have pulled the review comments out of the footnote and into the text and I have individually cited them. I have also taken out the "mixed" characterization of the reviews; readers can judge for themselves.
• Regarding article stability, four different editors worked on the article originally and were credited on the DYK, including myself. So some of the Talk page activity relates to discussions among those editors. Some of the Talk page activity comes from (so far unsuccessful) attempts to get a license-usable image of the subject. And some of the Talk page activity came after the subject of the article, or a representative of the subject, apparently modified the article. When that happens, I believe that BLP concerns and transparency dictate that we carefully discuss those modification attempts. The "restore" edit summary related to dealing with one of those edits (the material restored has since been modified again, per more Talk discussions and this GAN review itself). But there have been few if any disagreements regarding content of the article and I believe from that perspective, it is quite stable.

Next I'll address your other comments. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• Regarding short paragraphs, I combined two short ones about the wedding. But there is no prohibition on two-sentence paragraphs; of the two that remain, I think the one on the birth of her children and where she felt was home is justified, because it's an important matter that shouldn't be combined with anything else, and I think the first paragraph of the lead is justified, as it follows MOS:BEGIN guidance in giving a quick takeaway on the subject for readers who just read that, before getting into the summarization of the specifics of her career and life.
• Other than short paragraphs, do you have specific concerns about copyediting in this article? The Guide of Copy Editors is always backlogged, and I don't like to add to that backlog unless an article really needs it. Ditto to appealing to others on project talk pages.
• Regarding article organization, there's no perfect structure, especially for a subject like this. A purely chronological organization breaks up material too much to give any thematic coherence, while a purely thematic organization jumps around too much in time and fails to portray causality. How to organize the article is one of the topics that was discussed on the Talk page and in edit summaries among the four editors, and the sort of hybrid approach you see is what we settled on and are happy with. The problem with breaking up the "Early career and work with U2" section is that the two threads in it go back and forth - you can't look at either her dance career or her involvement with U2 and other popular music artists in isolation, each turn was affecting the next. And adding two-level sectioning seems a bit much for a relatively short article like this.

More later. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

• Regarding cite formatting, every cite here is done using either {{cite news}} or {{cite web}} or short form for books. So I believe the formatting is consistent. I don't typically show volume, issue, or page number for popular magazines like People, as I think those are more appropriate for academic journals. I would put author for the People piece but there was no by-line. As for the Arcane Collective cite, the title, publisher, and accessdate is all that typically gets put down for undated organizational web pages. Maybe if you point me to a few more cites you have concerns about, I'll have a better idea of what you are getting at.
• Regarding your breadth of coverage comments: Everything any of us have seen is already in the "Early life and education" section. I don't know of any useful external links other than the one there. Most potential "See also" entries are already linked to in the article, and thus not necessary. There is a Portal:U2, but I am kind of reluctant to slap it on here, since her association to the group is a little tangential. But I'm interested in what the other editors think. And if I knew of "4-5 additional sources" that gave information not already here, I would already have incorporated them into the article :-)

I think this covers all your comments. Wasted Time R (talk) 14:21, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Very good responses, above, thank you! I'll go over all this in more detail later. — Cirt (talk) 15:32, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

GA Review passed

GA Review passed. Thanks for the responsiveness to my above recommendations, — Cirt (talk) 20:36, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for the review and the pass. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:44, 16 June 2013 (UTC)ç

Jewish?

Is there a reference where she self-identifies as Jewish? If so, it should be added to the mention in the infobox. I removed a description of her as Jewish from an earlier version of the article. I know her father is verified as Jewish, know nothing about her mother's religion, and know that the wedding incorporated Christian and Jewish elements. I don't think that alone is enough to call her Jewish. Is there more in sources I've missed? What do other editors think? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 17:59, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

I think that without a reliable reference it's safer to remove it. I'll have a look for refs though.Theroadislong (talk) 18:08, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

There's this 2010 item from The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles, which calls her "MOT" (member of the tribe, a slang expression Jews use to identify other Jews). There's also a Google excerpt from the Baltimore Jewish Times - Bono - A Beautiful Day? - Mar 7, 2008 ... up Israeli President Shimon Peres on his invitation to visit the Jewish state to ... He already has the kippah, and his wife, Morleigh Steinberg, is a Member of ... " which is saying the same thing. There's already a cite in the article about her sister Eliza living in Israel. I think it's a fair presumption that someone who gets married at age 38 and incorporates a different religion from their spouse's into the ceremony identifies with that religion (and not just because a parent would like it). But I'm okay with removing it as well. Wasted Time R (talk) 18:42, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Speaking as a convert to Judaism who has spent a lot of time hanging around with people of mixed ancestry, who are investigating religious identity and exploring a variety of things, I think that it is highly likely that she self-identifies as Jewish but see nothing definitive in any of this. But it is also quite possible that she sees herself as "beyond religion" or something like that. Especially weak are "MOT" references by Jewish magazines. That is inclusivist gossip, in my view. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:12, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Having looked at the references suggested above and found nothing better, I think it is better to remove for now.Theroadislong (talk) 19:26, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

hahahe, I am a little late in this... but I agree with removing that. it would be great to make some research though, so the Infobox seems more complete. Miss Bono  (zootalk) 12:40, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Emmy Award needs sourcing

I know that all of Morleigh's official bio pages say she won "an Emmy award for best screen choreography in Episodes, a PBS presentation of ISO repertory". But we need an independent source to include something like this in the article. I've tried several times to come up with such a source, but have been unable to. In particular, the Emmy Awards have a searchable database and nothing resembling this award is in it. This search for her name comes up empty. This search for "Episodes" comes up with nothing related to her or PBS. And this search for PBS winners for Choreography show several winners, none of whom are her or are called "Episodes".

Now the Emmys are complicated - in addition to Primetime Emmys there are daytime ones, news/documentary ones, and regional and local ones. Maybe she won one of those, in which case we need to make clear it wasn't the one people think of. But until someone finds an independent source to confirm an award at any level, it can't be in the article, and I've taken it out. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:38, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Agreed... I added it with the hope that I would find a better source, but having looked there just doesn't seem to be one. Sorry about that.Theroadislong (talk) 11:57, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

My hands are tied I cannot do any research :'( I wish I could help... Miss Bono  (zootalk) 12:44, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Post-GA comments

[moved here from review page after GA completed]

What does "further reading" mean??? Miss Bono  (zootalk) 12:29, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Some articles on big topics list additional references, often books, that may be of interest to the reader but were not used as sources in the article. See WP:FURTHER. An example, picked pretty much at random, would be History of Liberia. But for a lesser known, narrow topic like this article, typically all the known sources are used directly. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:29, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Wasted Time R. maybe here www.arcanecollective.com it is the actual birth date of Morleigh. I saw the website oncve, but I am not sure. It would be good to check that out. Miss Bono  (zootalk) 12:33, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

No, it's not there. It's not in one place anywhere :-) It's one of those odd Wikipedia situations - a combination of sources pretty much tells us what something is, but because there isn't one source that says it directly, a strict interpretation of the WP rules (which is what the GA reviewer used) says we cannot use it. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:29, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Sad, Wasted Time R :( If Morleigh could post it on her twiter and the would log in secretly and add the info with references :D lol.... I was joking [ 12:19, June 18, 2013 Miss Bono ]

Hey, bottom line, two months ago there was no article on Morleigh Steinberg at all, and now there is a 2,500-word GA article about her. Birthdate or no birthdate, that's a pretty good accomplishment, and it was your initiative that started it all. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

You are right. I am cheeering up!!! :) Thanks Wasted Time R!! Miss Bono ^(zootalk) 12:12, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

More possible edits by subject?

A week and a half ago, the IP address 71.177.219.93 made three edits to the article that removed or changed substantial portions of the article. The collective changes can be seen in this diff here. I missed it at the time on my watchlist, but saw it this morning and restored the relevant portions to their previous state, as is standard practice when sourced material is removed without explanation.

I then thought to do a geolocate on the IP address and it resolves to Malibu. Since this subject, or her family or representatives, have a history of apparently editing the article before, and since Malibu is one of the locations of some of these people, it's possible that this is another instance of that happening. Or not; it could just be a U2 fan who doesn't like certain things being covered, which we often see in IP edits. It's hard to tell for sure, but I thought I would mention it here. Wasted Time R (talk) 12:44, 28 April 2014 (UTC)