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Talk:Mondragón rifle

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Was this article written by a close relative of Mondragon's?

It reads like a press release from a PR firm.

The rest of the world had a much less rosy view of the Mondragon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.4.171.144 (talk) 11:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed Switzerland and France as "users," neither country ever issued the Mondragon rifle. SIG in Switzerland merely manufactured it for the Mexican government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.241.207.193 (talk) 15:48, 10 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the article has had some good copy editing done. Ironically, I had an edit conflict when I went to save my changes! I don't think the person who wrote the original article was related to General Mondragon, but I suspect they may have had nostaglic or emotional ties to the firearm. Given that the firearm's main use today is ceremonial, I doubt it was written with PR as a motivation. Kartano (talk) 05:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It does have its POVish issues, doesn't it? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 16:50, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Point of aim

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I deleted this:

"Although they did not function well in the thick moist mud and dirt of central Europe they proved to work well in hot and arid climates such as the north of Mexico, meaning the Mondragón did not have a problem with dirt getting in it but, more of a problem with moisture as it would still work well when it would get dry sand and dust in it mechanism, although the Mexican manufactured 1908 model fixed his problem with slight improvements to the firing mechanism and the barrel.

as off-point where it was. I can't see a good place for it, but if somebody can work it in...? TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 16:50, 19 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Double count

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"Japan however manufactured less than five thousand, as Japanese machine tools at the time were not advanced enough to mass produce the delicate firing mechanism." OK, by what standard is 5000 rifles not "mass produced"? If this was meant to mean "unable to produce enough at a cost the Diet was willing to pay", that's quite another matter. TREKphiler any time you're ready, Uhura 01:39, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Japan never produced this weapon, only Switzerland made them. 174.54.218.155 (talk) 01:47, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Initial production

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What's the source of such information? Specially this: "By 1910 however adequate facilities were completed in the Mexican cities of Veracruz, Ciudad Juárez, Guanajuato, Guadalajara and Mexico City where they were produced until 1943." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.189.39.218 (talk) 00:49, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The Mondragon was only made in Switzerland and only, around, 4000 were made. 174.54.218.155 (talk) 01:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

magazine

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Did the rifle have an internal or detachable magazine/drum? 99.135.107.70 (talk) 21:08, 21 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]


The original Model 1908 is an internal 8 round magazine. The Swiss version and the FSK15 are external magazines of 20 and 30 rounds. 174.54.218.155 (talk) 01:46, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Internal conflict

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It's worth noting that information in the section "Initial production" directly contradicts information in the "Features and uses" and "Use in World War I" sections. The section claims that the rifle was only produced in "the SIG factory in Switzerland", while the former makes mention of "Mexican manufactured models"; it also claims that only "around 4000 rifles were made and only a few hundred made it to Mexico", while the latter states a production run of about 5000, of which roughly 3000 remained in Europe (which implies that the rifles shipped to Mexico numbered well over a thousand). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.135.157.208 (talk) 04:10, 16 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

removing categories

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I'm removing the the World War 1 machine gun category and all World War 2 catagories as there is no evidence in the entry or external linked articles indicating the weapon was used in World War 3 at all and, of course, it was not a machine gun. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.18.100.187 (talk) 19:26, 13 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That was a pretty sweeping edit, and hasty. There are many sources indicating that versions of the Mondragón rifle were capable of fully automatic fire (thus making it a light machine gun) after 1910. Around 1915, the Germans fitted it with a 100-round magazine, heavier barrel and bipod for use as an LMG. Further, it did appear to serve in WW2 in various areas (notably, the Philipines), and continued to see limited service after. http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=455. http://aroundtheammocan.wordpress.com/firearm-of-the-week/fotw-1023-the-mondragon-rifle/ http://www.frumforum.com/the-curious-career-of-the-greatest-mexican-automatic-weapon-in-history/ Davethehorrible (talk) 10:20, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Actually this video is the reason of all this debacle, others sources mindlessly copied the info (pretty much the same way people copy articles from wikipedia even when they have no references or have contradictory information, its called laziness). Outside of that there is no hard evidence nor any written information (to my knowledge) about either the 100-round drum magazine or usage outside Germany or Mexico.KitFistoPL (talk) 09:58, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Pictures

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References 18 and 19 have (I think) pictures of the rifle in use in Mexico. I was able to find picture in reference 18 through the wayback machine ([1]), but not the reference 19 one. I just emailed the site to see if we could use it in this article. SupremeDalek (talk) 14:15, 11 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20140201230238/http://www.inehrm.gob.mx/imagenes/planvalla/02.jpg
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