Talk:Mohammad Tawhidi

"not recognised as an imam"

Tawhidi is Shia: but there's a sentence near the top of this page claiming that the Sunni peak body of imams does not recognise him as one of their own. Should this be written in this manner, given they are two completely separate denominations and thus would of course not recognise each other? Sunni accept no Shias as Imams. The way it is written currently appears to imply that he is not accepted as an imam in general, rather than it being a denominational difference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antiallesaktion (talk • contribs) 05:24, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

taqiya?

Honestly, the taqiya level approaches astronomical values in this article. The use of "weasel words" is rampant.

As a non-native english speaker, my skills writing skills are not good enough to clean up this article. I only want to leave a bit of moral support to anyone that also consider re-writing.

There are also factual errors, ie he has frequently critiqued both shia and sunni. — Preceding unsigned comment added by E2npau (talk • contribs) 12:46, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring/smearing

This page is under vandal attack and should be protected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:C083:2E00:6D2A:D1AD:E14:90B9 (talk) 07:41, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

neutrality problems

Re: [1]. This edit restores a ton of non-neutral language and misrepresent the sources. For example "In order to achieve reform, Tawhidi supports the deportation of radical Islamic leaders in Australia". The hell this even means? What "reform"? Or " who has been referred to as an Imam". No, the sources actually say that he claims to be an Imam. Then the moving down into some obscure corner of the article of the Today Tonight controversy, which, if you google the dude, is like the number one thing that pops up about him. Or the WP:WEASELing of the description of Lee Man Hee, the guy who has claimed that Jesus appeared to him personally. Or restoring a bunch of unencyclopedic UNDUE stuff about the guy's statements. Etc. Volunteer Marek (talk) 03:41, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Look at the sources again, they are not misrepresented. The sources used in my edit refer to him unquestioningly as an Imam. The sources used in the following sentence dispute his legitimacy. Your edits are not neutral at all you are choosing preference of the sources which dispute his legitimacy over the sources that do not (saying he "claims to be an imam" is incredibly biased phrasing). Additionally, you said "the media" has called him a fake sheikh. This is untrue, many outlets have not questioned his legitimacy. It is more accurate to say "certain outlets" or "some outlets". The reform sentence was to list the ways he personally wants to achieve reform, I do not understand your confusion. Perhaps it could be re-worded to say they are his strategies of addressing radical Islam, rather than reformation. Your movement of the Today Tonight section makes no sense chronologically. It goes from 2017, to 2016, then back to 2017 again for no apparent reason. Read Lee Man-hee's page on Wikipedia, it says he is "accused" of being a cult leader. It is not about weasel words, it is about a Wikipedia article risking defamation. You have not explained why some of his statements are "unencyclopedic" and others aren't. CowHouse (talk) 05:10, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

When Mohammad Tawhidi began his religious studies he was known as Brother Tawhidi. He says he received his turban in 2010, so that would be the time when anyone who knew him could possibly start to call him Sheikh Tawhidi. The hierarchy of Shia Islam requires a Sheikh to continue his studies and after mastering certain known requirements would be given the title Hujjat al-Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hujjat_al-Islam

After several more years of study, the next step would be becoming an Ayatollah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah

For Sheikh Tawhidi to start calling himself the Imam of Peace is not standard practice nor is it part of Shia Islam, thus Tawhidi has been called a "fake Imam" as well as a controversial figure. CryMeAnOcean (talk) 22:28, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources for your claims? Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 22:32, 12 July 2018 (UTC)

→ Indicates a series of steps to achieve a task https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E2%86%92#Translingual

Shaykh → Hujjat al-Islam → Mujtahid → Ayatollah → Marja' (Grand Ayatollah) → Imam.

See the Theological titles in the box here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imam CryMeAnOcean (talk) 08:10, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. We can't include those claims based on our WP:OR. -- Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 23:05, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

As the Emir of Wikipedia, I assume that you know whereof you speak, but I just can't believe you said that! LOL

The Theological titles (in the Wikipedia links that I provided) are attributable and known among Muslim scholars, even if not attributed. The fact that the controversial figure Mohammad Tawhidi has an egoistic goal by naming himself the Imam of Peace (eschewing the established hierarchy of clerical honorifics) has probably been lost on those who are not Shia. CryMeAnOcean (talk) 00:42, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Well you could try and make this article more clear to those who are not Shia then. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 15:03, 14 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. I should read the article again and will like to try to make minor edits. I would not want to rewrite the whole thing because the previous editors have done a great job fixing neutrality problems. CryMeAnOcean (talk) 03:40, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Credentials

Tawhidi's imam status is tagged with "non-primary source needed". Primary sources can be used carefully in certain contexts as long as it complies with WP:PRIMARY and WP:BLPPRIMARY - namely straightforward statements of fact without any interpretation of the source. I'd say this is arguably one of those cases because although secondary sources frequently referred to him as an imam, his credentials were questioned. In response to media inquiries (as well as probably the 'fake sheikh' memes), he published a document from the Australian branch of the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), which verified his credentials. This was done as a matter of public interest (and even national security interest since they needed to verify his qualifications before allowing him to speak there). It's on his site but it's not strictly a primary source in the sense where the subject is the sole source of the info.

I understand Tawhidi is controversial but I think it was disingenuous for the recent IP to put "self-appointed" imam whose status has "never been proven". If Tawhidi was the only source of this info, you can easily make a strong argument for those terms, but that's not the case. Secondary sources calling him an imam weren't good enough, and now confirmation from the seminaries themselves still isn't good enough? If the situation was reversed, i.e. the RUSI said the seminaries didn't recognise him, you think the anon would've questioned the source in the first place? Of course not. Imagine if all religious biographies were held to the same standard as this article. i.e. I change their status to "self-appointed" and "never proven" and reject all primary and secondary sources saying otherwise, then demand a secondary source explaining the exact circumstances of their appointment. I'm sure you can see how unreasonable that would be. Spellcast (talk) 10:46, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

We have no third party verification that the document from Royal United Services Institute is genuine though. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:02, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

So he posts this document - with the intention to be publicly disseminated - with a forged signature of the vice-president after giving a speech for them? That would easily beat everything else he's said as the most controversial thing he's done. Even his detractors would call that a stretch. Spellcast (talk) 22:36, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

Four sources, closely connected to Tawhidi but not published by him, confirm his ordination as an imam:

1. Grand Ayatollah Yousef Madani Tabrizi

2. The Qom seminary overseen by Sadiq Hussaini Shirazi, Al-Rasool Al-Atham School, via formal statement of ordination

3. Ayatollah Hussein Shirazi, the son of Grand Ayatollah Sadiq Shirazi

4. Abdul-Karim Haeri Yazdi, the marja who oversaw the Karbala seminary from which Tawhidi graduated

Although each of these statements was reproduced on Tawhidi's website, he did not create or publish them, so they aren't primary sources. Oobooglunk (talk) 23:44, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

References

Biased and Self-Published Sources (Not an attack on overall reliability/neutrality)

WP:Independent states that sources must not be:

• Self-published
• Closely affiliated with the subject (I.e. biased or not independant)
• Primary (although these are allowed where OR has not been done on analysis of the primary source).

Just reading through the first two citations, I see clear violations already - and I have only read two.

Middle East Media Research Institute has faced criticism that, "despite portraying itself as neutral, it aims to portray the Arab and Muslim world in a negative light". Regardless of whether this is true or not, the source can not be realiably asserted to be neutral and so must not be included without a more neutral third party source (or one of the opposing view) backing it up. Also it evidently self-publishes its articles so the factuality can not be guaranteed.

The Huffington post's profile page is also not reliable as it is self-published on the (now closed) Huffington Post's contributor platform, where contributors can "control their work and post freely" onto the site. Visiting any of his posts reveal this, e.g. "who-is-this-woman-and-why-is-she-admired-by-the-millions".

Now let me be clear, whilst I am doubting the reliability of the sources, I am not doubting the reliability of the assertions made in the article. I simply think more suitable sources should be used. For example, consider using this to replace the sources above. One will note that the ABC news article is also biased - nevertheless ABC is not self-published so it is an improvement on that front. Furthermore, I believe the article needs to be checked with regards to the reliability of the other sources. I will put a "Cite Check" tag at the top of the article.

ParthikS8 (talk) 14:37, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

not Iranian

Being born in Iran doesn't make someone Iranian. He has no Iranian parents therefore he is not Iranian. Without having Iranian parents it is impossible to become Iranian. He has no Iranian citizenship. He was born to Iraqi parents with an Iraqi passport. Qom is only a city in Iran where Shia clerics from all around the world come to study.

Request for edit

I am contractor for Mohammed. Actually, I was the one who requested that this page be locked. I need it unprotected so I can make a few edits on it. Joel Chuks 06:05, 26 January 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saintv2223 (talk • contribs)

@Saintv2223:-See WP:PAID and follow it, please. ∯WBG^converse 13:34, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Additionally, you need to actually say what you want changed. The page has been locked to prevent further potential disruption, which (as a knock-on effect) means that any proposed changes need to be discussed first. Primefac (talk) 02:25, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

There's no news on Imam Tawhidi anymore. He hasn't responded on social media since 2020. It's like he has disappeared under mysterious circumstances. Would like more insight on this matter. Tenasena (talk) 19:30, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Recent Anon Edits

Hello,

Mr Tahwidi himself recently made a post on his personal twitter page, claiming that his wikipedia page was being vandalised with false information, and administrators of this site to be blocking changes as a form of blackmail. In reality, it appears to be simple opportunistic scammers claiming to be able to "fix" the page for a fee. This is likely the source of the anon edits, reversions etc, being the input of people helpfully minded, yet ill informed regarding wikipedia and its operation, beliving it to be a more centralised "traditional" form of website.

Currently, I am working on making a new version of the article. I have solicited the input of mr. tahwidi's office, as I assumed them to be claiming to be considering legal action, claiming libel and blackmail. However, I am working completely independently and I am not under their employ. I shall post my article as draft before adding here, owing to the protection and dispute.

Any issues on my talk page please, I check that the most often.

I'm not comfortable with the changes they are now asking me to make, so this isn't going to happen at all any more.

Joedetode (talk) 22:15, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Please edit whats already here instead of working on a new version of the article, I can almost guarantee it will be inferior to what we already have and therefore be rejected. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:16, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Imam Tawhidi disappeared under mysterious circumstances

He hasn't responded on social media since 2020. Does Somebody know what happened to him? Tenasena (talk) 19:32, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Unless it's a different guy, I see his tweets on X (formerly Twitter) all the time. Just saw one an hour ago. But meanwhile, this page really does seem to violate NPOV. It seems as if the folks who wrote it don't like him very much. Shouldn't it be written in a more neutral manner? DonnaHalper (talk) 20:47, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2023

The source given for him being the “vice president of the global imams council” is FAKE, this website is created by himself and the images of the “imams” are AI generated, these people do not exist, google their names. He is also not an imam, he never graduated, why is this suggested in his introduction? Im suspecting that he’s personally making changes to his wikipedia page and this hurts wikipedia’s objective image, please make sure wikipedia keeps being a truthful source. Petri7823 (talk) 22:38, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

 Done I've removed the information under the provisions of WP:N. No evidence that this is a notable organization (doesn't make any claim of notability either), and don't see how this info contributes to the article, especially from the lead section. Liu1126 (talk) 11:27, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

He is not imam. He didn't completed his degree. Will you call drop out doctor, a doctor?

He is not imam. He didn't completed his degree. Will you call drop-out doctor, a doctor? Will someone be able to call himself lawyer if they don't complete degree?

Can anyone just wear gown and call himself Imam will be considered Imam? Imam in Shia religious authority which needs to be recognized by institution. 202.47.36.141 (talk) 14:25, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

The article does not claim he is an Imam, it claims an alternative name or nickname for him is "Imam of Peace" At least one source provided in the article states that he is not actually an Imam. 331dot (talk) 14:28, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Dr. Dre does not hold a doctorate of any kind, for example. Nor does Dr. J. 331dot (talk) 14:31, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 December 2023

He is famously dubbed as the "Fake Imam".

Source: https://www.abc.net.au/religion/welcome-to-the-weird-world-of-australias-fake-sheikh-mohammad-ta/10095874

https://cjwerleman.medium.com/imam-tawhidi-israeli-intelligence-and-plot-against-qatar-aef73be4ff38 Ace4u (talk) 04:11, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 09:10, 23 December 2023 (UTC)