Talk:Model mate

Reason for the name?

What is the reason these are called "model" mates? Bubba73 (talk), 16:35, 5 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to Michael McDowell, in 1902 the chess columnist of the English newspaper "Southern Weekly News" invited suggestions for a term to replace the cumbersome "pure and economical mate". H.D'O. Bernard came up with "model mate" and the term caught on throughout Britain.

The similar name based on the same root "model" is used in many other languages. --Ruziklan (talk) 19:29, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move list seems to be contradictory to board in example provided

I can't seem to follow the move list in the example, it doesn't seem to correspond the board. Why is black moving first? Thelazyleo (talk) 17:35, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is convention to give Black's moves first in helpmates as e.g. in h#2 moves are done by Black, White, Black and White. --Ruziklan (talk) 21:34, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It is certainly not a good idea to give a helpmate model mate as example -- for just that reason. An example should be selected to help readers.213.67.148.6 (talk) 18:52, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, but as nowadays model mates are most usually used in helpmates and selfmates and helpmates are currently the most popular genre, helpmate example is not a bad idea in my view. Moreover, there are no technical pieces in this case, thereby emphasizing the visual impact of model mate.

However, the direct mate example might be added to address the issue you have pointed. --Ruziklan (talk) 19:25, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Opera game

I am deleting the recent addition suggesting that the checkmate appearing in the famous game played by Paul Morphy was model. In fact it wasn't model mate as f8 was not accessible to bK in the final position due to two reasons: block by bishop as well as attack by the mating wR. --Ruziklan (talk) 16:40, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct. At the same time, the Opera game's final position DOES satisfy the definition of an economical mate, a related concept. Therefore, I've added sourced language at the Opera game's article itself, identifying its final position as an economical mate but not as a pure mate (much less a model mate or an ideal mate), validating your remark here. MinnesotanUser (talk) 01:55, 22 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Rook and King Mate?

Is it necessary for the mated king to be off the edge of the board? If not, I think model mates are actually pretty common. In the common rook and king mate, the rook checks the king and control the two squares along the edge of the board that it is on, while the king guards the three squares that the king could escape to. That seems like a model mate to me. Either the definition needs to state that the king cannot be on the edge of the board, or the statement that it is extremely rare in practical play needs to be revised. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:546:C300:8FF0:2C75:B4A3:820A:150B (talk) 19:31, 20 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]