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Talk:Mitchell Miller (ice hockey)

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Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:20, 3 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Moved to mainspace by Bait30 (talk). Self-nominated at 07:15, 30 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]

  • The article is new enough and long enough. And the hook is technically accurate. However, I have two significant concerns here. First, the hook misleadingly suggests he was a top pick in the NHL draft when, in fact, he chosen in the fourth round with the 111th pick (Arizona traded or forfeited its picks in the first three rounds). Second, the article concerns an amateur athlete who has received significant coverage principally for his conviction in a juvenile court of bullying a developmentally disabled teen. This raises a significant WP:BLP1E concerns. Cbl62 (talk) 20:12, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The publicity given to the incident is particularly troubling given that Ohio juvenile court records and proceedings are designated confidential by law. See here, page 11 ("Most court and police records about your juvenile case in Ohio are confidential and not available to the public, which means that people cannot find information about your juvenile record the same way they can look up information about an adult criminal record."). Several media outlets ignored this policy, but I do not think Wikipedia should be exacerbating the situation on its most viewed page. Cbl62 (talk) 20:32, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I personally don't think BLP1E applies because he received coverage from reliable sources for hockey-related stuff before his controversy was exposed. However, I do understand not wanting to put it on the front page due to the weight of the bullying incident in the article.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 21:17, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. It would be helpful to get input from DYK gurus before making a final call on this one. @Gatoclass: @Yoninah: @Cwmhiraeth: @Maile66: Could one or more of you weigh in on the appropriateness of featuring this on the Main Page? Cbl62 (talk) 21:52, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The hook focuses on negative aspects of a person's life. If there is nothing nice to say, it should not be included in DYK. Flibirigit (talk) 03:51, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Yoninah: Done.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 19:15, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The "Career statistics" section needs a citation for the chart. I suggest using hockeydb.com or eliteprospects.com for this. Cheers. Flibirigit (talk) 19:28, 12 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Per this discussion at WP:ERRORS, this hook was pulled from the main page. A more suitable hook is required for this article. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 00:32, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is absolutely ridiculous. Here are some suggestions:
I made sure to link "general manager" because it's usage in sports is mainly confined to the US and Canada and I don't want English speakers to be confused with my usage of American. I found out just how different American is from English, so I made sure to add an excess amount of context. That way, an actual English speaker could come by and hopefully whittle it down and translate it into proper English.  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 03:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2 is far too long (above the 200 character limit). Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I've struck ALT2 but the possibility of a shorter hook based on that remains. As for ALT3, the words "hockey" and "league" are used multiple times in the hook, although in the case of "ice hockey" it may be unavoidable since the consensus was to specify that the hockey in question is of the ice variety. "League" is used three times and at least one of them probably needs to go to avoid redundancy. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:58, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that’s one of the reasons I disagreed and overreacted. Here’s a new alt:
ALT4: ... that league executives voted ice hockey player Mitchell Miller as one of the best blueliners in the United States Hockey League?  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 01:14, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5: Are you going to review this hook, or should I put the red DYK?again icon and request a new review?  Bait30  Talk 2 me pls? 18:57, 27 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Probably need a new review, I was just helping out here with the "new hook needed" discussion. Pinging Cbl62 and Flibirigit for their thoughts on the new hooks. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:03, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
New review is needed here. Flibirigit (talk) 00:09, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think the new hook (alt4) is fine. It's short, hooky (the "blueliner" bit is good as non-hockey fans may be intrigued by what that is), and accurate. The only hesitation I have is that the article/source don't literally say he was "selected as one of the best defencmen/blueliners". Instead, they say he was selected to the All-USHL team. Most anyone familiar with team sports knows that those two things are the same, i.e., that all-conference honors means a player is being selected as one of the best in the league at his position. All in all, I think it's an accurate hook. Cbl62 (talk) 00:37, 28 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Narutolovehinata5: I noted above that I think alt 4 hook is fine: short enough, hooky and accurate. IMO the reservation that I raised is not something that should cause the hook not to run. Cbl62 (talk) 17:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Cbl62: A full review is needed for this nomination given how long it's been running. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 10:04, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I did a full review back in November which this article passed. And as noted on December 22, the alt 4 hook looks fine: short enough, hooky and accurate. IMO the reservation that I raised is not something that should cause the hook not to run. Cbl62 (talk) 10:12, 2 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Bullying Incidents Section

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This section has the text: "Miller maintains that his court-mandated apology letter was read to the Meyer-Crothers family."

"maintains" implies that it is an opinion. The source, [23] -> https://azcoyotesinsider.substack.com/p/mitchell-miller-addresses-his-past states the following:

"Miller believes that he has taken several steps toward repaying his debt, beginning with when he apologized to Meyer-Crothers in the immediate aftermath of the incident. The apology was court-mandated, but it was a personal apology, and public records of Miller’s expulsion hearing and recommendation, obtained by azcoyotesinsider.com, show that the apology was read both to Meyer-Crothers, and to school officials and the school board. The apology was also sent to the Meyer-Crothers family."

Which shows the apology was read aloud, and sent to the family, and is an official matter of court record. Aka, non-opinion.

The following edit is suggested: "Miller maintains his court-mandated apology letter was read to the Meyer-Crothers family. Court record stated that the apology was read both to Meyer-Crothers, and to school officials and the school board. The apology was also sent to the Meyer-Crothers family." 2601:5CA:4200:3880:0:0:0:13EE (talk) 16:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done with minor changes, thank you for your request :) Actualcpscm (talk) 23:29, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Glad to help. Cheers. I was reading through the sources and caught it. 2601:5CA:4200:3880:0:0:0:13EE (talk) 05:23, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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