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Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4

"dvdlyrics.com"

(Separate issue): I noticed at the beginning of the "Musical style and influences" section there are two quotes from "dvdlyrics.com", can this be removed? It is no way reliable. Thanks. —Jennie | ☎ 19:26, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Hi Jennie honest question... why is the website unreliable? I dont think its a blog? the line is an extract from somewhere else...i should have googled it

...Zoebuggie☺whispers 23:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

test...Zoebuggie☺whispers 12:49, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Removing the genres field after the ban has been lifted seems the best forward, the reviews of the album should assist in adding the genres.
In terms of "dvdlyrics.com", WP:RS is excellent in explaining why it isn't reliable. There are problems with self-published sources and that relies upon context (or purpose) and reliability. In terms of context this means where is it coming from - for example, "dvdlyrics.com" is a collection of song lyrics, although it is involved in music in this aspect, it isn't useful for giving artist critique. Most importantly, anyone can self-publicize a source, you, for example, could set up a website stating that "Misha B is the best UK urban artist in the world". What sets you apart is the fact that you have no expertise in the field; magazines and publications such as Q, Rolling Stone and NME are considered to be reliable because they have experts, and perhaps most importantly, they have been published by other third-party sources as their opinion is highly regarded. When using the critique of artists you need to find sources that are from experts that have been verified by a third-party in some way, which not all magazines or websites are. —Jennie | ☎ 17:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
When ever I come across a site, I always check it using http://website.informer.com/ and or http://www.webrankstats.com/ and sometimes http://webempires.org/wikirank/ nothing I could see or understand rings bad bells, or that is a personal website. I always try to check the Contact and About pages. I could find nothing that suggest its a self published resource. That is why I am honestly confused as why your clearly think that site is unreliable. I am puzzled, rather than argumentative. I believe that outside academic fields Reliability in the Context surely becomes more important.
(Personally I think (and I know this does not count) NME is pale shadow of itself, and Rolling Stone/Q are too safe/american biased/middle of the road, and I wish (again it is just a wish) the was not a blanket ban on blogs etc as some are well written by true experts in their field)...Zoebuggie☺whispers 19:05, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
This is turning into a general discussion about music sources, which should probably be carried out elsewhere. There's no blanket ban on blogs. As you say, some are affiliated with reliable expert news publications. Most aren't. Sionk (talk) 19:25, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
To simplify: your source is a a critique of an artist, it's from "dvdlyrics.com", this site's aim is to collect lyrics of songs and not to critique artists, it's therefore unreliable. This is furthered by the fact that no other reliable third-party has used this material in their publication. If it isn't self published, could you find the original source? If you find this, and it is written by somebody with expertise in the field, then it's fine. If you can't, then it's unreliable and isn't useful as critique. (The reason why most blogs can't form part of an encyclopedia is because anybody can set up a blog and give any opinion. Although you may not like the examples above - I'm not a fan of NME either - there is a reason why they sell hundreds of thousands of copies daily and employ people with the ability to give a (hopefully) neutral and expertise view). —Jennie | ☎ 19:28, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I really appreciate your replies. I know I am still learning and trying to get it right.

I googled the first part of the quote ...came up with a possible sources ...her own facebook or

":: Altsounds.info :: " - 1 new article LISTEN: MishaB - Why Hello World Mixtape http://archive.feedblitz.com/89519/~4174081 ...Zoebuggie☺whispers 20:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I have been having computer problems and haven't been active. "altsounds.info" isn't reliable either (basically for the same reasons as above). I'm going to remove these sentences on that grounds, although if you find its original source and it is reliable, you can add it back. —Jennie | ☎ 5:23 pm, Today (UTC+0) *** accidentally removed in a reversion



must admit music genre boundaries do get confusing...what genre is this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=osDEnrgJb-g 'Ride or Die ft. Misha B' is the 'B-side' to Angel's new single 'Time After Time' ...Zoebuggie☺whispers 01:38, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Knock knock

Is the next mix tape, but so far only announced on twitter and facebook, expect confirmation by other sources will follow...prob on friday...Zoebuggie☺whispers 19:49, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

release date 01012013 but still waiting for usable reference...Zoebuggie☺whispers 00:20, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
Suggest you don't add it until a reliable reference is found. The current inline citations attached to this 'fact' seem unconnected to the news. I can't see any reliable reporting online of the intended release. Sionk (talk) 01:45, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Ride or Die

The song above http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=osDEnrgJb-g has been released. I would like to add

'Ride or Die' featuring Misha B was released as the B-side to Angel’s 'Time After Time' on 6 Dec 2012. The track was composed by Sirach Charles (Angel ), Kassa Alexander and Misha Amber Bryan. The music video was directed by Paul Akinrinlola and Adam Deacon (who also stars), and produced by Parallel Pictures for Universal Music [1][2]

to the relevent paragraph. The two links are to Vevo and Youtube as they provide the release details. What is also good is that the Vevo one confirms that Bryan's middle name is indeed Amber....Zoebuggie☺whispers 23:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Neither Vevo or YouTube are reliable sources, particularly for personal information. We don't even know who uploaded the Vevo video, whether it is truth, fiction or what! If a song is released on YouTube, don't cite it to the song on YouTube, cite it to a reliable source. You should know the basics of Wikipedia by now, several people here have explained it to death. Sionk (talk) 01:42, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Where to begin .... There is no blanket ban on linking to YouTube or other user-submitted video sites. Links should be evaluated for inclusion with due care on a case-by-case basis. WP:YOUTUBE. WP:VIDEOREF . The reliability of a source depends on context.! Video, and multimedia materials that have been recorded then broadcast, distributed, or archived by a reputable party may also meet the necessary criteria to be considered reliable sources. in a case of a musician the is a stronger case
Vevo is the artist's official music video site, her middle name is confirmed. Vevo (stylized as VEVO) is a joint venture music video website operated by Sony Music Entertainment, Universal Music Group, and Abu Dhabi Media. ... Vevo offers music videos from three of the "big four" major record labels: Universal Music Group, Sony Music Entertainment, and EMI. But this time its third party as Angel's label released it. Officially. The track is notable in context and been officially released.The reliability of a source depends on context. Actually the is nothing contentious that would have require blanket removal by another editor. Zoebuggie☺whispers 04:31, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
There always has been, and hopefully always will be, a ban on promotional, self cited fancruft. Wikipedia is not the place for Micha B to make proclamations about her thoughts, or her current work etc. etc. This has been argued to death countless times on this Talk page. I don't know where you got the idea she was releasing a mix tape on 1 January. According to her Youtube video, she says it will be out "sooner than you think". Currently it is vague and completely non-notable. I'd be grateful too if you didn't blanket-revert my edits without explanation. Sionk (talk) 20:16, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Soink, i think i explained both on this page and in the limited space in the reason for edit box the reason for my main revert regards Ride or Die.
For sometime i have known about Knock knock was going to be released 1st Jan because she mentions it clearly on both her facebook and twitter pages, plus few other unusable sites and blogs, but I obviously could not post from those sources. She repeats the title 'knock knock' several hundred times on the youtube vid and here http://www.mishabmusic.com/ but I thought she did mention the date on her youtube, but now I currently cant find it.
Originally the were a few independent references that the mixtape was due in December. It had clearly been moved back a little to Jan 1st, so the original info was no longer correct on the page and needed correcting...we know the mixtape is coming out and no doubt it will be confirmed soon. We can remove the date but i dont think its to controversial if it stays until its confirmed.Zoebuggie☺whispers 21:21, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Where exactly is this Mixtape that was 'released' on the 1st of January so. ???? Oh and Happy new year to our special overlord , User "Miszabot" Wikimucker (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:28, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Not released yet...It has been put back further....current sources say sometime in January via her management and urban development etc...guess its a lesson in the obvious uncertainty of future events even when mentioned in 'reliable sources'...tours/albums etc ...it might get released tomorrow? this weekend? we could remove future events to avoid the crystal ball issue....Zoebuggie☺whispers 00:59, 11 January 2013 (UTC) I just added the better citations to the entries....Zoebuggie☺whispers 16:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
Regards album release date Buzzjack forum (whose reliability i dont know) currently says Misha B – Misha B [24th Jun]? the title is obviously unreliable...Zoebuggie☺whispers 16:25, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

.....PEACE & Good Will....Zoebuggie☺whispers 20:46, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

REVIEW OF MISHA B on the MINAJ Tour

I have come across this review that includes Misha B's performance on the Nicki Minaj tour. http://www.thegirlsare.com/2011/01/07/the-girls-are-2010-round-up-2/ I am guessing its not a good enough source, but just in case some part can be used I though I'd put it here for someone else to mine....Zoebuggie☺whispers 20:46, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

DEBUT STUDIO ALBUM

As no such album has been released yet, do we even know it is a studio album? has it even got a name? a release date?...then surely the should not be a paragraph heading for something so vague or may/probably will not happen for many months. Bodney (talk) 22:29, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

All of her singles link to this album, and as an artist, an album is the most significant project that he/she will work upon. Wikipedia follows this style of using a subheading that reflects this; I think it's important to note that singles don't form part of subheadings on an artists bio. —Jennie | ☎ 23:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
As no debut album has been released, named or given an official release date...a heading would be at best vague and at worst seriously misleading/false. She maybe working on it, but it is not fact.Wikipedia is not a collection of product announcements and rumors. While Wikipedia includes up-to-date knowledge about newly revealed products, short articles that consist only of product announcement information are not appropriate. .... Speculation and rumor, even from reliable sources, are not appropriate encyclopedic content.Bodney (talk) 10:28, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Please read this again, Bodney, WP:CRYSTAL is the rationale for whole articles, not parts of them (demonstrated here: short articles that consist only of product announcement information are not appropriate). We have verification for the album from a multiple sources, that me and other editors have provided. —Jennie | ☎ 10:46, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
The Beyoncé Knowles article demonstrates this; albums/life events forming part of the subheadings, even ones with no title/release date (see the last subheading). To answer your earlier question, music artists work in studios now. —Jennie | ☎ 10:53, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Parts of articles should be about verifyable facts not probable future events...just as much as whole articles. You are wrong here.Bodney (talk) 16:03, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
some of those sources are up to nine months old for a project that has not been finalised, are they still relevant?Bodney (talk) 16:06, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I see you are the major contributor to the very good Beyonce article...so not a good independent exampleBodney (talk) 16:08, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
You could look to virtually any music artist bio: Madonna, Rihanna, Mariah Carey, Michael Jackson, etc. to see this style. —Jennie | ☎ 16:15, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
With Misha B we are still looking at a future possible event, established stars have more certainty. None of the examples you give me covers future untitled even probable work as a title ...once albums are released yes they become headings...but not until the event happens.Bodney (talk) 16:22, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
We appear to be in an unresolved editorial conflict...I am unlikely to back down unless higher editorial guidance clearly recommends otherwise...what do you suggest Bodney (talk) 16:26, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Upcoming album subheadings (with no or ambiguous title/release date) can be found on pages such as: Jay-Z, Shakira, Nicole Scherzinger, Miley Cyrus, Jessie J, Katy Perry, etc. —Jennie | ☎ 16:29, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Sadly, This article appears to be going downhill due to one editors control attitude. I have noticed lots of good content being removedBodney (talk) 21:30, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

The article was in desperate need of being summarised; the content removed was generally single reviews that are found on the single pages themselves, which are bloating out the article unnecessarily. —Jennie | ☎ 21:45, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
You can request a second opinion concerning the subheading if you want consensus for it to be changed. —Jennie | ☎ 21:47, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Here? or Who or where do we get a second opinion. Would you feel able to request that.Bodney (talk) 21:57, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
I've requested a neutral third opinion. —Jennie | ☎ 22:04, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
ThanksBodney (talk) 07:54, 24 March 2013 (UTC)


Response to third opinion request (DEBUT STUDIO ALBUM):
The section should be just, "2012—present". There is no need to mention the album in the section heading. What happens if she releases 10 more albums - do we call it "2012—present: Debut studio album, second album, third, best hits..."? No. There is no need for any argument about this; keep it simple. Of course, there should only be mention of an album (in the content) if there is a reliable source giving facts about it. Thus, "Her debut album is planned for release in 2013" seems fine (the refs look good). Section title should be simple. Any other questions? 88.104.27.2 (talk) 00:44, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I would agree to implement that. —Jennie | ☎ 11:00, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I also agree...once the album is very close to definite release...with name/tracklist/def official date etc...i would be more ok about extension to include the album in title.Bodney (talk) 12:26, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Great. I removed "Debut studio album" from the section title. Thanks. 88.104.27.2 (talk) 14:46, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

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  1. ^ "Ride Or Die - Angel". vevo.com. 2012 [last update]. Retrieved 8 December 2012. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
  2. ^ "Angel - Ride Or Die ft. Misha B - YouTube". youtube.com. 2012 [last update]. Retrieved 8 December 2012. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |year= (help)CS1 maint: year (link)
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