Talk:Military-First Girls

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Kimikel talk 01:26, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

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• ... that the Military-First Girls are a Japanese girl group that performs North Korean pop songs?

• Source: 日本の北朝鮮ファンクラブ、「先軍女子」がダンス披露 [Japanese North Korea fan club 'Military First Girls' performs dances]. Reuters (in Japanese). 6 November 2017.

• ALT1: ... that fans of the Military-First Girls, a Japanese girl group that performs North Korean pop songs, are known as tongmu, meaning 'comrade'? Source: Mao, Yi (4 November 2017). 日本正妹哈北韓 先軍女孩爆紅 [Pretty Japanese girls, North Korea: Military-First Girls become famous]. Liberty Times (in Chinese (Taiwan)).
• ALT2: ... that the Japanese girl group Military-First Girls have compared their interest in North Korean music to other Japanese women's interest in K-pop and Taylor Swift? Source: ALT0 source and Osaki, Tomohiro (16 August 2017). "Drawn to North Korea's culture, Japanese internet star looks beyond the saber-rattling". The Japan Times. Archived from the original on 16 August 2017.

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/1990 Serbian constitutional referendum

Created by Yue (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 14 past nominations.

Yue🌙 00:45, 30 July 2024 (UTC).

• This is a neat fact, I'll jump on this. Article is new and long enough, and QPQ is met. Reuters is a reliable source and the primary proposed hook is obviously uncontroversial. The first hook is definitely the most direct and interesting, though personally I'd word it in a more attention-grabbing way such as "...that there is a Japanese girl group that performs North Korean pop songs?", stating it less as a fact and more as an anecdote. Not a dealbreaker if you prefer it as is though, the hook is perfectly acceptable. My main concern is with the article itself. While it's mostly presentable, seems copyright free, and has adequate sourcing, I'm concerned about the accuracy of its framing of the topic. It calls them a girl group and states they do musical performances of Korean pop. However, most sources (both utilized and other general google results) appear to call them a fan club, and I can only find any reference to them doing dance, not singing. The Reuters sources cited for them performing music has a lot of photos where they appear to be dancing without any apparent microphones, and again calls them a fan club who are dancing. This also seems more consistent with their undefined scope of membership. If they are not in fact a musical act, this is a major flaw in the article and the hook, which directly touches on them as a pop act. Do you have any sources that confirm they do any singing and are considered to be a girl group? LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 05:16, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
  • @LittleLazyLass: The Liberty Times article describes them as a "girl group" (女子團體), but it literally means "girl group" and does not refer to a singing act, specifically. I've also come to realise that my understanding of the term "girl group" differs from the definition given on Wikipedia and in most English-language dictionaries. If a girl group was defined by their performances of or to music as I had understood it, then all the sources given would imply this descriptor. However, since that is not the definition of a girl group, I will adjust the article and propose new hooks tomorrow to remedy the issues you have highlighted. Thank you for your help thus far. Yue🌙 07:04, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
    • @LittleLazyLass: These adjustments should remedy the framing issues. As for the hook, here's a new one:
      • ALT3: ... that the Military-First Girls have compared their interest in North Korean music to other women's interest in K-pop and Taylor Swift?
        Sources:

        • 日本の北朝鮮ファンクラブ、「先軍女子」がダンス披露 [Japanese North Korea fan club 'Military First Girls' performs dances]. Reuters (in Japanese). 6 November 2017.
        • Osaki, Tomohiro (16 August 2017). "Drawn to North Korea's culture, Japanese internet star looks beyond the saber-rattling". The Japan Times. Archived from the original on 16 August 2017.
      • Let me know what you think. Yue🌙 23:30, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
        • Much improved! I wouldn't say I see anything wrong with the hook or the article at this point, but I do think the new hook should still include reference to the fact they're Japanese as this is a significant contributor to the fact of them liking North Korean culture being striking. LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 06:40, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
          • @LittleLazyLass: Thanks again for doing this review. Here's an adjusted hook:
            • ALT4: ... that the Military-First Girls, a Japanese all-women fan club of the Moranbong Band, have compared their interest in North Korean music to other women's interest in K-pop and Taylor Swift?
          • If you like it, please indicate your approval with a checkmark. Cheers! Yue🌙 06:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

@LittleLazyLass: Is this approved? If not, what else needs to be done? Z1720 (talk) 00:28, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Apologies! I thought I remembered closing this. Looks good now. LittleLazyLass (Talk | Contributions) 01:49, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Military-First Girls/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Yue (talk · contribs) 03:06, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Seefooddiet (talk · contribs) 05:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Notes

Hi, review again!

• Article writing solid as with previous noms.
• Verified refs 1, 2, 5, 6, and 7.
• The article's current content seems comprehensive to me. It captures basically everything I can find in English. Littel coverage seems to exist in Korean; mostly translations from English-language articles. I feel like maybe there's possibly more info available in Japanese, although I've tried a Google News search and couldn't find much. Unless someone can find more Japanese-language info I think current info is fine.
• No images of the band, but that's probably to be expected.
• Is there a ref to support that they're still active? I think most recent attestation is a 2021 interview from that 2022 book.
  • In the book, it says that they deleted their twitter. However there is this twitter account (not an RS) that I think probably belongs to them that hasn't been active since 2022.
  • I asked the Wikipedia Discord and one person said we should just assume status quo (that the band is still operating) if we don't have a source saying they disbanded. I'm not sure what to do. What's your thoughts?

seefooddiet (talk) 05:17, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

@Seefooddiet: I'd reckon that not assuming the status quo without a reliable source would be akin to proving a negative without a basis for the proof. What we can interpret and cite from the book is that the Military-First Girls' Twitter account had been deleted by 2021/22. However, I don't think we can assume that the organisation disbanded; perhaps they just went offline as a consequence of the negative publicity. I think we should report what reliable sources state and omit assumptions, however likely or possible they may be, if they lack reliable sources to back them up. I'll add the sentence about the Twitter account being deleted, but aside from that I don't think anything else needs to be done. Yue🌙 08:44, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Pass, great work as always 🙂 seefooddiet (talk) 02:28, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.