Talk:Michelle (song)

Sun King

I'd been led to believe that the "Spanish" in Sun King was actually Spanish-sounding nonsense.PurpleChez 22:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

It's Italian, not Spanish.

I noticed that as well. I do not speak Italian, but the words in Sun King are very similar to words I know from Dutch, French and English. It seems like they just used some nice sounding words, all with at least two syllables. Arno Sluismans (talk) 23:28, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Unique?

"...The song is unique among Beatles recordings in that some of its lyrics are in French."

A true Apple Scruff knows this assertion to be false. There is another. --Teledyn (talk) 17:40, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree, the word "unique" should be removed, Paperback_Writer#Song_lyrics --Jonathanleblang (talk) 17:48, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Early bilingual pop song?

"...and in fact it is believed to be one of the first bilingual pop songs ever."

Believe it all you want. 'Taint true. Dyfsunctional 18:25, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

"des mots" or "les mots"

I know a little French, and always thought the word was "les". I saw the "des" in a prior version of this article and was going to change it. Before I did, however, I listened closely to the song and decided it sounded like "des". That's WP:OR, though, and so I looked in various lyric sources, all of which had "les" until I checked The Beatles - Complete Scores (Hal Leonard Publishing Corporation (1993). The Beatles - Complete Scores. p. 680.): they had it as "des mots". (That source is well-regarded as containing very precise transcriptions.) I left the "des" as-is. Subsequently, I found that Many Years from Now (Miles, Barry (1997). Paul McCartney: Many Years From Now. p. 274.) has a quote from McCartney and he says "les mots." So, I am OK with either version. If someone thinks it's important (I don't), we can add a note that some people hear it as "des" (and cite Scores) but McCartney said it was "les" (and cite Many Years from Now and other lyric sources). There are more important edits to complete for this article, however, like providing citations in general. John Cardinal 16:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering this as well. Can someone ask Paul? phocks (talk) 00:08, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

"Des" would be correct. "Sont des mots qui vont tres bien ensemble" = "are some words that go together well." "Sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble" = "are the words that go together well." Obviously, the first makes more sense. (The English words of the song say, "These are words that go together well.") QED Kostaki mou (talk) 20:44, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Jairo?

Who the hell is Jairo? And where is the source claiming he was a contributor? Pfft, removed. --James599 (talk) 23:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Alternate lyrics

I remember watching years ago an interview of Nico Mastorakis on Greek TV, where he claimed that while sailing (if memory serves me well) with the Beatles, they had sung Michelle (privately) using the alternate lyrics "Michelle you smell, something tells me you don't wash it well". Unfortunately I can't find a reference for that particular interview, but I have located two references of the same lyrics [1],[2]. Both are unreliable as well, so not possible to include it in the main article, but probably worth mentioning here. --Ferengi (talk) 11:46, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Number 1, Number 3?

It says here in the Cover section that it was a #3 chart hit for the Overlanders, but on the page about Keep On Running by the Spencer Davis Group, which was a UK chart #1, it says that the Overlanders' version succeeded Keep On Running as a UK chart #1, as it says on the List of number-one singles from the 1960s. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.254.182.80 (talk) 23:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

They're probably both correct for different charts. Since the list you link to uses the Record Retailer chart, I'll change the entry to reflect that. Brettalan (talk) 21:45, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Ballad removal

Ballad should be removed from the genre field of the infobox since it is not a music genre. Aspects (talk) 05:36, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

chord structure

I may be crazy, but aren't D-, F-, G#-. and B- all the same chord? If you listen to the single, during the "go together" portion, you can hear the bass changing notes twice, but the chord itself (i.e. guitar, backing vocals) remains a steady D- (or whatever you want to call it). The article seems to indicate the chord changes three times. (And by B- I mean Bdim, etc.) The tamale (talk) 16:46, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Michelle or Míchelle

If the song title is pronounced Míchelle, then why isn't it written as Míchelle? C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:18, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Because Michelle is a french name, Míchelle is not a french name. That's all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.15.231.202 (talk) 18:38, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Mistaken Lyrics

Sunday monkey won't play piano song, play piano song... should this be mentioned? Fryedk (talk) 18:00, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

EP

I actually have a French EP that contains Michelle, Run For Your Life in A-side and Drive My Car and Girl in B-side. I added "It was issued as an EP in France" but it was deleted by someone. Can I set back the sentence in the article, but this time I indicate the french chart and discogs as references ? P.S. : Sorry for my bad english, I'm french.

The chord mentioned in the article is not a Bbm7, it is a Bb7#9.

This is what a Bbm7 sounds like.

This is what a Bb7#9 sounds like.

You can clearly hear the chord on the demo version.

The demo version is in Cm and the second chord is F7#9. If we transpose that to the recorded version, it is Bb7#9.

I am going to change this because it is very misleading in the article considering how important the song and that particular chord are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rushcoil (talk • contribs) 14:54, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

References

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MacDonald's line-up

Ian MacDonald has insinuated some of the most absurd claims in his book, such as speculating that Paul played nearly all of the instruments on the song in nine hours as well as playing the drums. Those claims appear to be unfounded and it's highly unlikely that he would've been doing anything of the sort at this stage - e.g. recording songs attributed to The Beatles either on his own or with assistance from Ringo or studio players with the exception of "Yesterday". I have seen a photograph of Paul, John and George on acoustic guitars (Paul on 6-string, John on classical or nylon-string and George on 12-string), so that lends credence to Walter Everett's line-up. I think Ian MacDonald's line-up should be removed, since he got a lot of line-ups wrong in his book. 203.220.214.150 (talk) 11:44, 16 August 2018 (UTC)

Jan Vaughan writing credit

ISTR hearing that Jan Vaughan gets royalties as she wrote some of the lyrics - can anyone confirm that and, if so, should the writing credits be Lennon/McCartney/Vaughan? Or to annoy Paul, Lennon/Vaughan/McCartney! Apepper (talk) 15:41, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

The article already states that she suggested one phrase and helped with translation. That's far from sufficient to give her a writing credit unless McCartney decided to give her an official credit (which obviously he didn't), especially since there doesn't seem to be a reliable source to support it. I suspect the "royalties" issue is an urban legend. She was paid to help McCartney, but without a writing credit or contract that awards royalties, it's very unlikely she gets any additional payment. Sundayclose (talk) 22:00, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Musical note /chord / notation mistakes?

Have any musicians reviewed this? Looking at the Beatles Complete Scores book, that first chord is F minor, not F major.

If I play F major it doesn't sound right to me at all. 118.18.160.109 (talk) 19:37, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

I’m learning the song on guitar now. You’re right. The first chord on the intro lick is an Fm. The verse opens up on an F major though, but I think it’s a borrowed chord. I think the song’s in Fm, not F major as the article says. DMCredsox2004 (talk) 19:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

@DMCredsox2004: The current source in the article (Pedler) is as reliable (probably more reliable) than Beatles Complete Scores. So we'll need a WP:CONSENSUS to change the article rather than what "sounds right" to a Wikipedia editor. Sundayclose (talk) 19:23, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely. I don’t have a source, which is why I haven’t changed it. My degree is in music though, and the chords in the song fit the key of F minor & not F major. I’ll take a look over the sources in the article when I get a chance & see what I can find. DMCredsox2004 (talk) 21:51, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sundayclose - I'm not able to look at Pedler's source without buying the book (the nearest library that has it is a few hundred miles away!). However, I've notated the verse of Michelle in a music notation software. Not sure if I can upload that here without violating the copyright guidelines. However, I've found that the 3rd and 6th scale degrees in the verse are both consistently minor throughout. Basically, the melody fits within the minor scale, and would need two accidentals throughout the verse for it to be in major. I didn't hear any notes outside of the scale in the middle eight either, but I'm only two measures in to transcribing that.

The guitar solo also fits entirely inside the natural minor scale (apart from a small chromatic run in the first measure) until the last two measures, where it uses the melodic minor scale. The progression in the middle eight is also a minor key progression (i—V7/VI—VI—V7—i).

I'm positive the song is in the key of F minor, and that referring to the song in the key of F was an oversight. I'm new to editing, though, so I'm not sure how to proceed. I'd love to hear your thoughts. DMCredsox2004 (talk) 22:53, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

@DMCredsox2004: Sorry, but how a Wikipedia editor (you, me, or any editor here) notates and hears the music is not a reliable source. It's original research, which isn't allowed on Wikipedia. We need a reliable, secondary source. Sundayclose (talk) 23:53, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

@Sundayclose - I figured that would be an issue. I looked up the song on a few sheet music retailer sites. All of them have a key signature of 4 flats, which is F minor. One of those is published by Hal Leonard.[3] Not sure if that works or if that's a strong enough source, but I've linked it here. Thank you. DMCredsox2004 (talk) 01:00, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

@DMCredsox2004: You definitely need editors with more musical expertise than I have. I suggest raising the issue at WT:WikiProject Musicians. I hope there you can get opinions about reliability of any sources you have. Be sure to mention the current source (Pedler). All the best. Sundayclose (talk) 01:37, 26 June 2023 (UTC)