Talk:Michael Rosen

Politics

You might want to add this article: (there are one or two factual errors in it: I didn't chain myself to any railings and Trident wasn't stocked at Aldermaston. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.38.89.204 (talk) 19:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/11827586/A-charming-unreconstructed-socialist.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/11827586/A-charming-unreconstructed-socialist.html

Should say something about his views as an educationalist and socialist political commentator.

Link to http://www.langandlit.ualberta.ca/Fall2004/SteigelBainbridge.html mentions this a bit --- he stood as an election candidate for Respect.

I agree. I think someone needs to take the bull by the horns and write something that properly covers Michael's politics. It's central to his whole attitude to his writing that he is a Marxist and a supporter of the SWP. He sometimes writes for Socialist Worker, e.g. [1], and appears most years at the Marxism 200x conference, cf numerous TouTube videos. This isn't controversial really. Much of his work has centred on what in rather pompous terms might be called "self-activity of the working class", i.e. helping people to frame an expression of their situation that can help them to act creatively within it. Someone with more knowledge of his writing really needs to put something sensible together about this.Sjwells53 (talk) 23:23, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll look into the above, but I think, just as important, is to get Michael's parents their own separate entries. Harold Rosen died in August 2008 and was an enormously important figure in education and politics, very influential as a writer and commentator. Not having his own section means his story is cut short very misleadingly, giving the impression he remained a CP member, when actually he left the party in 1957 - half a lifetime ago! Any views on this?Sjwells53 (talk) 20:18, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

I added the material on Harold Rosen as it stands, but I could not agree more on him deserving a separate entry. On Connie Rosen (née Isakofsky), there is little or nothing on the web, and I do not know if she 'made it' into Who's Who or the ODNB. Philip Cross (talk) 20:46, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Not so sure about Connie. The obituaries give us a good start on Harold, and I certainly have a few bits of his stuff from the 60's and 70's in various educational anthologies. So I'll make a start when I next have an hour or two.Sjwells53 (talk) 22:22, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Started a page on Harold. Hope it helps to fill in a bit of Michael's background. Would be very happy to see others expand it. It really needs a whole separate section of explanation of his ideas, into which some of the biography could be moved. Now we need to think about improving this page.Sjwells53 (talk) 13:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

I notice Michael has been joined up with SWP again. Unless this reflects a very recent change, it isn't true. In fact the user who put it in is apparently blocked, although has still managed to change this article. I'll leave it for a while, because I reckon Michael will be able to cast more light on it himself, then delete if this post is unchallenged. It's obvious Michael Rosen does share some of the perspectives of SWP, as do lots of other people who are not members. Membership is something much more specific and definite. Sjwells53 (talk) 10:12, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Trustworthiness:Vendor reliability:Privacy:Child safety:

Thanks for drawing attention to this. When I (quickly) reviewed this earlier I had clearly not switched on my mental "unreferenced BLP article edit" alert. I have removed the change since it is unsupported by a suitable reference. -- EdJogg (talk) 12:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Michael Rosen was added to the current membership section of the SWP article by the same user. I have removed it. For those new to this area, a user almost certainly Rosen himself attached the following comment to an edit of 09:18, 9 February 2007: "re: SWP - technically I'm not 'associated' with the SWP. I'm approached to write articles for the journals or speak or perform at events. I do this on a strictly one by one basis". The edit following the one linked to above is also relevant. Philip Cross (talk) 18:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

A reference was added to (supposedly) confirm Rosen's membership of the SWP (http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker2/787/antibnp.php); however, if you read the reference you will find it is very much taking the opposite view to what Rosen had written, and quite possibly got the (SWP) information wrong. Looking at the websites for the SWP and its paper, Rosen is certainly present -- he has written several articles which are available on-line, and is booked as a speaker for a conference in July 2010 -- but it doesn't say that he is a member!

EdJogg (talk) 01:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Trivia section

The following information was recently added to a "Trivia" section by an anonymous editor:

• Went to Chillingham Road Primary school and wrote a poem for them. Because they thought it would inspire the pupils. Also appeared on Radio 4 in an interview there.
• Has released a sequel to 'We're going on a bear hunt' called 'The bear in the cave'.

I've removed it from the main article for two reasons: (1) it is unreferenced; and (2) trivia sections are to be avoided as they encourage editors to add miscellaneous facts to the article. If references can be found for the information, it can be integrated back into the main text of the article. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 10:43, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

I forgot to tell you that I was given a gold Blue Peter badge. I was wearing it on Blue Peter a few weeks ago and someone asked me what I got it for? All the info is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2009/12_december/28/bluepeter.shtml

"See above"

i'm a 1-armed typist at the moment as i hurt my shoulder through excessive repetitive editing...

the 'see above' refers to the son's illness - i had seen the death of the son before reading about his illness above. i didn't want to repeat the illness, so added that instead. perhaps 'as described above' would be clearer - Rothorpe (talk) 17:07, 13 May 2008 (UTC) - also reverting 'see above' accidentally put in ref.

Hi, Rothorpe. I don't think the "(see above)" is really necessary. The article is not very long, and anyone who reads it will discover the relevant information fairly quickly. Can we agree to remove it? And I hope your arm recovers soon! — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 18:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

thanxx. i've moved it, as i prefer it thus, but change it back if you wish. Rothorpe (talk) 21:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

No, that's fine. I've just deleted a redundant reference to "1999". — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 23:26, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

ok, cheers - Rothorpe (talk) 00:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello again folks, if you look at the From Here to Paternity article that you've referenced you'll see the correct names and ages of my children (as dated to that article). I challenge you to find that any of my progeny are called 'Eliza' ! best wishes again, Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.23.200 (talk) 23:29, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

HELLO! Just writing again to say that you've got my daughter's name wrong. Now someone's added in a fairly illiterate way something to do with a) my previous wife and b) the children eg 'here' for what I think should be 'their' ! best wishes, Michael Rosen. You can write to me at rosenmichael@hotmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.23.200 (talk) 15:48, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Have added several honorary degree awards but have left out the fact the University of North London, Middlesex University, and the Open University gave me honorary degrees because I can't reference them. I gave back my Middlesex University one because they closed the philosophy department and that was my protest about that. best wishes, Michael Rosen (rosenmichael@hotmail.com) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.23.200 (talk) 01:23, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Correction, folks! University of North London and Middlesex were 'visiting professorships' not, repeat not, honorary degrees. So the only one missing from the list is the Open University and I can't find a press cutting for this to reference it. vbest, Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.23.200 (talk) 10:34, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Just to say that I am no longer Visiting Professor at Birkbeck. As you say, I am now Prof at Goldsmiths. Thanks a lot. Best Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.189.7.161 (talk) 01:04, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

This is wrong: "He is currently Visiting Professor of Children's Literature at Birkbeck, University of London,[16] where he teaches Children's Literature and has devised an MA in Children's Literature, which commenced in October 2010 "He is currently Visiting Professor of Children's Literature at Birkbeck, University of London,[16] where he teaches Children's Literature and has devised an MA in Children's Literature, which commenced in October 2010." i am no longer employed by Birkbeck. Hope you can delete this soon. Best Michael

Position of footnote

Hi, Philip Cross. You relocated a footnote from the end of a newly inserted block of information about Rosen's parents and ancestors to a place earlier in the block because not all the information was sourced from the reference in the footnote. This means the fragment "and Connie a primary school teacher before becoming a training college lecturer; she also broadcast for the BBC. Their ancestors came from Poland, Russia and Romania." is unreferenced. Are you able to locate a reference for it? If not, I think we should remove it from the article until it can be properly sourced. — Cheers, Truth's Out There ^–talk– 17:05, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to be a little pompous, but it is usual to add "fact" in double braces when querying information in an article. My reference for his mother's work for the BBC, would be Michael Rosen himself during his selection of Desert Island Discs two years ago. It seems she was in effect his first editor, as Rosen first wrote material for the children's radio programmes in which she was involved. This material belongs in the article. Currently there is a gap in his career progression, but I do not have a better source than my own memory. Philip Cross (talk) 20:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I could have added a {{fact}} tag but I thought I'd ask you first. Have you tried Googling to see if you can find a source? Adding a {{fact}} tag is only a temporary fix: "Wikipedia:Citing sources#Unsourced material" says, "If a claim is doubtful but not harmful to the whole article or to Wikipedia, use the {{fact}} tag, but remember to go back and remove the claim if no source is produced within a reasonable time." [Emphasis added.] — Cheers, Truth's Out There ^–talk– 18:58, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Details of family

Hi guys - I don't seem to be able to log in. This is Michael again. Someone has maliciously deleted me from the category 'English Jews'. I see that no reason was given. I say 'maliciously' because it doesn't take long to find in the list of 'English Jews' plenty of Jews who are of similar background and belief-systems as me - e.g. my own father, Harold Rosen, who was brought up as a secular Jew. You can see quite clearly who has done this. I have no idea the exact reason for doing it but you can also see that this person sees him/herself as a rather cultured person. I suggest that if it becomes OK for someone to remove people from a list such as 'English Jews' then we are on a dangerous tack. It's not for one self-appointed person to decree that I am not an English Jew. Nasty times.

Hello Michael. I appreciate your concern. Fortunately, there is probably an innocent explanation for this, albeit one that would only make sense to us wiki-geeks. I think what may have happened is that because you are in Category:English Jewish writers, which is a sub-category of Category:English Jews, you were removed from the parent category. According to WP:DIFFUSE, "a large category will often be broken down ("diffused") into smaller, more specific subcategories". If such "diffusion" takes place, then where possible people should be moved into subcategories. At least, that is what is supposed to happen - in practice categorisation tends to be somewhat piecemeal and arbitrary. Looking at "English Jews", there are 1130 people and not many subcategories. "English Jewish writers" looks to be the largest with 123 people. Hope that helps. Edwardx (talk) 20:48, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Hello. I see that I have been restored. Perhaps by you. If so, thanks. Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:AF20:3900:DD7:F29:5C50:D536 (talk) 21:28, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Hi guys - I see that you are having problems over my middle name. It is actually Wayne. Here's an article in which I explain why it's Wayne: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/sep/08/michael-rosen-realising-that-poetry-was-performance-was-my-eureka-moment-

• Thank you. Done. Edwardx (talk) 21:00, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi guys, you've got the birth years of my children and the name of one of them wrong. best wishes, Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.23.200 (talk) 23:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I was suspicious of the edits made on 22-23 May, as I am fairly certain that I added the references supporting the text that the edits replaced. I haven't had time to re-open the refs to check, but I would have added these other details if available. Hence, safest to revert.

Incidentally, we could well do with a better lede photograph. The present one is not very flattering... -- EdJogg (talk) 13:37, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Took a new photo on 7 December, and uploaded it today. Edwardx (talk) 21:46, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Me again: you've got the reference to Beatrice Hastings wrong. It wasn't my mother who met BH. It was my father. He met her on account of HIS mother's acquaintance with her. This is in his autobiography 'Are You Still Circumcised?' (Five Leaves Press). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.209.92 (talk) 19:47, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Guys, this part of the sentence is wrong: "... for example his mother's acquaintance with the bohemian literary figure Beatrice Hastings made an impression on him as a child.[6]

That wasn't my mother. It was my father's mother who knew Beatrice Hastings. This is, as I've said, documented in 'Are You Still Circumcised?' by Harold Rosen (Five Leaves Press) and will be repeated in 'So They Call You Pisher!' (Verso) coming out in September 2017. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.222.173 (talk) 08:31, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

You haven't read the article from the New Statesman properly! Rose is not my mother. She's my father's mother. Look:

"I remember Rose when she was old and not very coherent but it was clear that she was someone whom people wanted to see. My father described their house behind the London Hospital, on Whitechapel Road, as somewhere that seamen from Russia and Jamaica would come but also how she seemed to know some posh Communists, such as the bohemian Beatrice Hastings, once the model for Modigliani."

My mother was Connie, as you've said.

PLEASE CHANGE THIS. JUST READ THE ARTICLE YOU'VE CITED AND USE THE INFORMATION THERE, RATHER THAN MAKE UP YOUR OWN STORIES. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.217.144 (talk) 10:41, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

This sentence is factually wrong, as I've explained several times above: "They eventually left the Communist Party in 1957. Michael never joined, but this background influenced his childhood, for example his mother's acquaintance with the bohemian literary figure Beatrice Hastings made an impression on him as a child.[6]"

IT IS WRONG BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T READ THE ARTICLE YOU'VE CITED! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.144.217.113 (talk) 14:08, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Corrected in accordance with the cited source, and as requested in person by Michael Rosen. Now reads "...his father's acquaintance (through his mother) with the bohemian literary figure Beatrice Hastings". Edwardx (talk) 21:44, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Michael here. The Beatrice Hastings event didn't have an effect on me as a child because I didn't know about it until my dad wrote his memoir which wasn't until I was in my forties! It made an impression on HIM when he was a child. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:7280:EB00:A9E9:6938:7D74:F513 (talk) 08:35, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

It's very funny that you ignore what I'm trying to tell you here. I repeat: it's a complete nonsense to say that I was influenced by the fact that my father went to see Beatrice Hastings. I didn't hear about it or know about it until my dad wrote his book 'Are You Still Circumcised?' ie when I had been an adult for many years! 2A00:23CC:7280:E01:195D:C105:A897:1A5B (talk) 06:48, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

In Modern Culture

Now, before anyone gets the wrong idea, I didn't come to this page just to look for "funny information about michael rosen YTPs and shits and giggles". However, his impact on internet culture - at least I believe - is at least noticable, but not to suggest that popular "YoutubePoops" should be included and referenced. Does anyone want to share their thoughts on the subject? I'm not entirely sure if the videos are noticable enough to warrant a mention in the first place. 71.196.173.180 (talk) 08:13, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Normal Wikipedia notability rules apply. If there is coverage in reliably sourced media then of course it could be mentioned here, otherwise not. It would be interesting to know Michael's opinion of these -- some of them are, frankly, offensive. That might form the basis of an article by a journalist that we could reference here. -- EdJogg (talk) 11:30, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Michael here. 'We're Going on a Bear Hunt' is not a 'children's novel. You're getting a few giggles from people at that. It's a children's picture book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:7280:EB00:A9E9:6938:7D74:F513 (talk) 08:30, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

YouTube

A mention of Michael Rosen's videos on YT keeps being added to the article. While on this occasion there is no problem with copyright, as it is clearly an official channel which Rosen links to from his website, it does not seem possible for notability to be established. I can only find a third-party reference on Times Education, but that appears to be user generated content which does not meet the requirements of being a reliable source. Philip Cross (talk) 07:57, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Four months on, still no usable reference to the YouTube videos featuring Michael Rosen as a performance poet. Philip Cross (talk) 10:59, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

On twitter, Michael Rosen has just linked to the official Artifice Design feed on YouTube. The introduction reads as follows: "This is the official Michael Rosen video channel. All videos on this channel have been approved by Michael Rosen and are safe to watch. Please be wary of any other videos that are offered by different channels and users as it unlikely that they will be authentic or approved. YouTube is a 'free-for-all' site. Quite a few people have fun taking Michael's videos and making new versions of them, known as 'poops' or 'YTPs' Many of these are not suitable for young children. If you want to be sure that you're looking at genuine Michael Rosen videos then only view content uploaded and managed by this channel. All videos have been uploaded and are managed by Artifice Design." Philip Cross (talk) 13:02, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Michael here. Our YouTube channel has had 100 million views. For a channel that is just made up of poems, stories, jokes and interviews with other writers (and some reviews of children's books made by children) that's quite a few!

Michael here again. It's very funny that you guys can't agree that it's OK to mention our YouTube Channel. So you've put yourself in the position of ignoring the most popular (by far) thing I've ever done. That's 142 million views. The evidence is there, on the channel stats where anyone can see it. It's not just me saying it! As for books, it's bizarre and inconsistent, that most authors have a selected bibliography on their wiki page but for some reason I don't. Again, it's easy to find, as it's public info. Don't take my word for it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.182.237 (talk) 16:12, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

I see that 'Jayfax' with great authority gives in the article 'Talk' an excellent reason for not including my YouTube details: namely that the only evidence for it is...er...the YouTube channel itself. I assumed therefore that this is common wiki practice. Not so. Pure coincidence, I was looking up some cover versions for Chuck Berry's 'You Never Can Tell' and I came across two singers Elle and Toni. Then lo and behold on one of their wiki pages there's this: 'As of February 2024, their YouTube channel has more than 406,000 subscribers; their 350-plus videos have a combined 131 million views.[17]' The footnote [17] links too...er...the YouTube Channel. There is no 'secondary source'. So do you guys make up the rules as you go along, and then justify your subjective views with reference to the made-up rules? Fyi, I have more than 750,000 subscribers, more than 500 videos and more than 142 million views. Maybe 'Jayfax' can explain what the rule is that 'allows' this kind of stat to be on one site but not on another. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.182.237 (talk) 01:56, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

The Elle Cordova article has a reliable secondary source that confers notability to her YouTube channel, by Rock Cellar (Garrio, Adrian. February 1, 2024), which means the channel itself can be additionally used as a primary source on those viewing figures. I don't think that's here nor there though, because to be honest I don't doubt you could still find a counterexample on a sufficiently bad article. Besides, I hardly realised I'd removed the bit about YouTube viewing figures. I was more after the bit on YouTube Poop. If there are secondary independent source(s) on about YouTube, I'm happy to re-include it again. I'm all peace and love Mr. Rosen x) and have otherwise been building up a bibliography section. JAYFAX (talk) 15:00, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Jayfax, good to hear from you. All peace and love, then. This article has a reference to the YouTube Channel: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/13/michael-rosen-this-book-is-about-what-it-feels-like-to-nearly-die Here: 'Rosen’s poems for children always see the world from their perspective and can be counted on to induce giggles – “‘Don’t throw fruit at a computer’ / ‘You what?’” – especially when performed by the poet himself: he doesn’t have 98m YouTube views for nothing. He is learning to adapt to virtual school visits, “a kind of informal telly”, zooming into the camera with one eye: “then my dad came in and said ...” He has written more than 200 books and counting, including greedily devoured favourites Chocolate Cake, Fluff the Farting Fish...' [nb it's 142 million views now.] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.182.237 (talk) 19:16, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Alright added that to the article. JAYFAX (talk) 09:47, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Early Life Subject

The "Early Life" section focuses more on Michael's parents than Michael himself. Rectar2 (talk) 23:01, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

As it happens, the article now confuses me with my father yet again. The Beatrice Hastings story is still wrong. The visit to see BH had an effect on my father, not on me. And now someone has added that I am an alumnus of Regents Street Polytechnic. No, I am not. My father was in around 1937/38. As you record elsewhere, my secondary schools were Harrow Weald Grammar and Watford Boys Grammar. My higher ed was at Middlesex Hospital Medical School and Wadham College, Oxford. 217.46.90.182 (talk) 11:20, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Michael here. Good point! Given that about 80% of my work is about my 'early life', it's both a bit odd and actually not hard to find out about! My memoir, 'So They Call You Pisher!' is not a bad source too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:7280:EB00:A9E9:6938:7D74:F513 (talk) 08:36, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Meme?

@Pickuptha'Musket: I don't think that Rosen should be in the category for Internet memes. He's mentioned once in YouTube Poop, inside a paragraph consisting of YouTube: Online Video and Participatory Culture notes that low-budget television shows such as Super Mario World and Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog, as well as cutscenes from video games for the Philips CD-i, popular movies, music videos, video games, commercials, and television shows including SpongeBob SquarePants, My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, My Little Pony: Equestria Girls, Caillou, Barney and Friends, Thomas & Friends, King of the Hill, Disney/Pixar movies, Billy Mays, Michael Rosen, Wilford Brimley, "Gangnam Style", The Room, The Wiggles, Regular Show, Gravity Falls, Team Fortress 2, How It's Made and ChuckleVision are frequently used as sources. It's also never mentioned in this article, which it should if it's such an integral, notable part of his fame. Origamite^ⓣⓒ 22:24, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

@Origamite: I think he should because there's an entry of him at Know Your Meme. Pickuptha'Musket (talk) 15:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

As Know Your Meme uses wiki software, it cannot be considered a reliable source demonstrating the notability of YouTube Poops involving Michael Rosen. Wikipedia articles cannot be used as sources for other articles on this website. 15:50, 17 May 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philip Cross (talk • contribs)

I agree with Philip. Origamite^ⓣⓒ 20:11, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

It seems absolutely bizarre that his viral meme is not mentioned. It's extremely well known world wide. MaxConfusion (talk) 22:53, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, I dont have any idea on why this isnt mentioned, the meme is the reason why most people on the internet know him GermanLetsKotz (talk) 17:33, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

I'm three years late to this discussion but he's definitely well-known as a meme (or at the very least was one). However, if and only if we find third-party reliable secondary sources that mention his status as a meme should we include this. For the last decades there has been no shortage of Michael Rosen meme edits circulating, and if a reliable article mentions that it's worth mentioning as a footnote somewhere in the article. Brendon the Wizard ✉️ ✨ 01:14, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

I think it would be reasonable to mention his memes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.118.208.63 (talk) 19:05, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

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Near-death experience

Michael Rosen here: you still haven't got the account of my stay in hospital(s) right. You've got the first phases right. Yes I did go into a geriatric ward. That was for about 10 days. Then - crucially - I was taken to another hospital, St Pancras Rehabilitation Hospital. i went there on June 3 and was there for 3 weeks. Why crucial? Because that's where they taught me how to stand up, then use a frame, then a wheel chair, then a stick and then finally to walk without a stick so that by the end, I could walk from the ambulance to my front door unaided. I owe an enormous amount to the physiotherapists and occupational therapists there for what they did for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23CC:7280:E01:AC3E:BF84:966D:8071 (talk) 00:15, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Should the section on when Michael Rosen was ill with covid-19 tell of the Near-Death Experience he had while he was ill with this disease? Rollo August (talk) 19:59, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I KNOW THAT YOU MOSTLY IGNORE WHAT I SAY BUT YOU'VE GOT THIS SERIOUSLY WRONG:

His wife had been told not to take him to hospital if possible, as part of the general advice to protect the NHS, but a doctor friend saw him and revealed that his blood oxygen level was dangerously low.[61] Having been taken to hospital, he was moved into the ICU on 29 March and then back to a ward, before being moved back into the ICU in early April. He left the ICU after 47 days.[62][63] By 6 June, he was recuperating at Whittington Hospital.[64][65]

MY WIFE WAS NOT TOLD 'TO NOT TAKE ME TO HOSPITAL AS PART OF THE GENERAL ADVICE TO PROTECT THE NHS'. THE SIMON HATTENSTONE ARTICLE YOU'VE REFERENCED DOESN'T SAY THAT. YOU'VE JUST MADE THAT UP. SECONDLY, I WAS MOVED TO A GERIATRIC WARD AT THE WHITTINGTON ON MAY 22 AND THEN MOVED TO ST PANCRAS REHAB HOSPITAL ON JUNE 2 WHERE I RECUPERATED TILL JUNE 23. YOU'VE GOT THAT VERY WRONG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23CC:7280:E00:C00:19BC:223A:279B (talk) 22:35, 27 October 2021 (UTC) CHECKED WITH WIFE - THAT SHOULD BE THAT I WAS IN ST PANCRAS FROM JUNE 2 TO JUNE 23.

It must be distressing for Michael to have incorrect information about his illness in the Wiki article, as he disputes it himself. But the Guardian article says this "Rosen had been ill with flu-like symptoms in mid-March. He seemed to be getting better, but then he got “bed-breaking shakes” and extreme aches two weeks later. On 28 March, Williams, the mother of his two youngest children, called NHS 111 and was told to keep him away from hospital if possible. As the day progressed, she became terrified. She asked a doctor friend to take a look at him." https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/30/michael-rosen-on-his-covid-19-coma-it-felt-like-a-pre-death-a-nothingness. Can we find a published and approved source for Michael's denial? Here is his own public comment on Facebook (not an approved source, I think): Rosen's Facebook Comment Thomas Peardew (talk) 06:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

I see the issue has now been edited in the article, removing the reference to "protecting the NHS". As it stands I think this is now correct. I am evidently a little late in catching up! Thomas Peardew (talk) 08:16, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

New award

AWARD: https://www.childrensarts.org.uk/aca-news/michael-rosen-wins-the-2021-j-m-barrie-award/

Good to have you back again. Added to the article at: Michael Rosen#Awards and honours. Edwardx (talk) 13:39, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi again, you could possibly include these awards too?

Sony Radio Academy Gold Award 2003 Radio short form: ‘On Saying Goodbye’

1997 Eleanor Farjeon Award for distinguished services to children’s literature — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23CC:7280:E00:CCD0:DCB3:6537:AAD (talk) 19:35, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-66028985 https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/28/author-michael-rosen-wins-2023-pen-pinter-prize-for-fearless-body-of-work — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.26.52 (talk) 10:01, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/michael-rosen-chimamanda-ngozi-adichie-margaret-atwood-harold-pinter-pen-b2365694.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.26.52 (talk) 21:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

https://www.thebookseller.com/news/rosen-wins-pen-pinter-prize-2023-for-rare-invaluable-gift — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.147.26.52 (talk) 22:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Notability

Michael Rosen here again. You have me down as being 'professor of children's literature at Goldsmiths University of London' since 2014 but where you tell your readers what my job is, you don't mention this. This strikes me as strange because for nearly 10 years now I've been employed for two days work a week at Goldsmiths. It feels like a job to me. I realise that me commenting on my own wiki page didn't go down well with someone elsewhere on this Talk section but others have pointed out that it's OK because I'm not trying to edit the article and it's transparent that it's me anyway. Best wishes, Michael. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.58.178 (talk) 00:22, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

It is my understanding that someone claiming to be the topic of this article has been providing information though this talk page and also engaging in disputes about what information to add to the article. This undeniably compromises this article's notability and thus I have added a notability template to the top of the article. I'd urge you to all become more civil on this talk page and fix these issues to make sure that there is no influence in the writing of this article from individuals close to the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Luke Nelson (talk • contribs) 05:20, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for this. I take it you're talking about me. Is there a rule about who can or can't suggest things to go on wikipedia pages? Can you direct me to it? In the instance where the subject of the article knows that things are wrong, is it stated somewhere in the wiki guidelines that that person can't suggest on talk that the mistake should be rectified? After all, I'm not writing on or editing the article itself. I'm just suggesting things, so whoever is writing the copy for the article can take it or leave it. Is that wrong? 2A00:23CC:7280:E01:D1B:234F:C3F6:CB39 (talk) 20:04, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

The main guidance is at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest "Do not edit Wikipedia in your own interests, nor in the interests of your external relationships." and a Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide, some of the key points are:

• Be transparent about your conflict of interest.
• Do not edit or create articles about yourself, your family or friends, your organization, your clients, or your competitors.
• Post suggestions and sources on the article's talk page, or in your user space.
• The role of editors is to summarize, inform, and reference; not promote, whitewash, or sell.
• Article subjects require significant coverage in independent reliable sources.
• State facts and statistics; don't be vague or general.
• Take time to get sources and policy right.
• Get neutral, uninvolved, disinterested editors to review your suggestions.
• Respect the volunteer community's time; avoid making protracted or repeated requests.

So you are fine commenting on the talk page here. Wikipedia is heavily based on following published sources. If what the sources say differ from what you say, then we have to go by the sources. --Salix alba (talk): 00:43, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism controversy

What about the allegations he downplayed anti-Semitism in the Labour Party? (86.140.123.8 (talk) 17:51, 3 March 2022 (UTC))

'What about the allegations' that he was targeted by two directors of an organisation who 'out' people who, they say, downplay antisemitism in the Labour Party - one targetting that tried with a tweet to get Rosen sacked from the BBC and the other that stated on twitter a purported value of his family home and also stated that if he (the director of the organisation) hadn't been with his wife he didn't know what he would have done [to Rosen]? 2A00:23CC:7280:E01:D1B:234F:C3F6:CB39 (talk) 20:09, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

English

Ok 42.108.160.10 (talk) 09:21, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Politics / Corbyn

In the subsection about Politics / Jeremy Corbyn there’s a paragraph about accusations of Anti-Semitism based on photoshopped images. The text moves on to what happened (eventual suicide) to the accuser, himself the subject of an article which deals with this matter in full.

This paragraph is not about Rosen or his politics and it does not mention Corbyn either. So I removed it, but another editor has reverted my change. I’m unhappy with that but would rather discuss it here than get into a revert war (so I won’t touch the paragraph today).

Options that occur to me:

• do nothing, leave as is;
• modify text to be less about the other person AND to explain relevance;
• move to elsewhere in article;
• remove altogether.

For reasons above I would remove the paragraph: it doesn’t belong. Nick Levine (talk) 08:15, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

@Atchom: Nick Levine (talk) 08:16, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for flagging. I don't agree it should be removed. It has to do Rosen, has received substantial news coverage, is clear notable, and the fact that it is covered in another article doesn't change its relevance to this one. I see an editor has reverted the deletion and the paragraph IMO should stand in the absence of better reasons. Atchom (talk) 10:17, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

The reverting editor was you ;)

If this material were to be kept, would you agree that it is out of place in a paragraph about Rosen’s politics / Jeremy Corbyn? Nick Levine (talk) 12:10, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

So easy to lose track across pages! If there are objections to have it under the Politics heading, I am happy to see it under some other section. No fundamental objections here. Atchom (talk) 21:55, 6 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, done. Nick Levine (talk) 07:52, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

The section now ends thus After his death, the Board of Deputies of British Jews opened a condolence book in Newbon's honour. Newbon was subject to an ongoing and unrelated lawsuit at the time of his death. The libel case against Rosen was not submitted in evidence at the hearing following his death. Do people feel this is really on topic? Nick Levine (talk) 18:49, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Section on Newbon

Michael would like that section to be removed, as he believes it to be libellous.

Is there someone with whom I should be in contact to pass on that message? Rijnveld's Early Sensation (talk) 15:14, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

The section is very well furnished with reliable sources, is there any particular part that isn't correct? Theroadislong (talk) 15:23, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I couldn't know, to be honest, being so distant from the matter, but I gather that Michael Rosen disputes some of the things which were said in the press articles referred to. Rijnveld's Early Sensation (talk) 15:26, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Then he probably needs to take it up with the press, Wikipedia merely reports on what reliable sources say about a topic whether it is good or bad. Theroadislong (talk) 15:28, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I did take it up with the press and as a result, several emendations were made. However, this misses the point. I put to you, if a death occurs and a coroner makes no link to person x, why should a wikipedia article make the link to person x? What's going on is the subtle matter of what I'll call the 'causative "after"' ie an article or report states that event y happens 'after' event x, so the implication is that the two are linked in real life. There is no evidence of a link. 217.46.90.182 (talk) 11:14, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

I have to agree here. Rosen was one of several thousand who disagreed, yet we write the article to suggest as if the death is attributed to them. This is not WP:NPOV in my opinion, at the very least its WP:UNDUE. OXYLYPSE (talk) 11:26, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Rosen's article almost has more content about this dispute than Pete Newbon's, despite Rosen only being involved by a) responding to the tweet and b) being later sued in defamation proceedings (that seemingly didn't go anywhere). It is wrong to tack on the Newbon's suicide that happened 6 months later in Rosen's article. This would arguably fall under WP:SUSPECT.

I think the quarrel warrants inclusion in the article, but I have trimmed down most of it. Further discussion of what happened to Newbon is appropriate for his own article. -OXYLYPSE (talk) 12:23, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Any other photos we could be using for the infobox?

It's good to use a more up-to-date photo than the 2009 File:Michael Rosen.jpg photo that was used here for a while, but I feel it's not appropriate to use File:MICHAEL ROSEN 2022 (54).jpg as the main picture. We typically try to use photos that aren't too unflattering on biography articles. He just looks so... visibly diseased here. The skin around his left eye is all red and swollen, his left pupil is a different size than his right pupil, and the skin of his face just doesn't look very good. Nothing inherently wrong with showing someone's age with a recent photo, but I strongly doubt that this is the best one we could be using here.

If I recall correctly, the photo we were using on this article before that one wasn't really that outdated. I'll look around the revision history and try to confirm that. If it was actually too old to keep using, I'll try to see if there are better ones on commons and suggest some here.

 Vanilla  Wizard 💙 18:13, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and changed it back to the most recently used image (File:Michael Rosen BETT & Education Show 2019.jpg) since I don't expect this to be that contentious of a change.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 18:18, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

My books

I notice that many writers on wikipedia have a list of books they've written. I gather it's not appropriate that I add these myself. For anyone interested in doing this, here's a complete list of my books: https://www.michaelrosen.co.uk/bibliography/ Best wishes Michael 86.191.123.238 (talk) 20:36, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Mistakes

Hi Michael Rosen here. This is not an edit. It's a comment. I have tried to tell you several times that you have the Beatrix Hastings story wrong. I've explained how you've got it wrong and where you can go to get it right. Next: the number of books is wrong. You can get the right number from my website where they are listed. You are about 60 books wrong. Under politics, you say that I'm 'Labour' since 2015. This doesn't represent my politics. Finally, one of my main occupations since the 1990s has been university lecturing/teaching either as a visiting professor or (for the last 20 years) as a professor. You don't list that under 'occupation'. The only problem with you getting these things wrong is that people use wiki as a reputable and reliable source when they are introducing me at conferences and the like . 165.120.212.35 (talk) 00:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Michael. I have updated the number of books based on the recent gruniad source and will have a look at the other items when I get time. Burrobert (talk) 04:44, 8 March 2024 (UTC)