Talk:Mesoscale convective system

Mesoscale convective system has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 2, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed

Weather: Non-tropical / Thunderstorms / Tornadoes High‑importance

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Significant expansion

Have significantly expanded the article with content from other articles within wikipedia, which negates its entry into Did You Know. However, not much more needs to be added (mainly references) before it can be submitted for GAN. If any of you notice anything missing from this article, let me know. Thegreatdr (talk) 19:46, 14 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Mesoscale convective system/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi, I am review this article for GA. The review may be slow, as I find this article heavy going. Is there a way you could make the material more accessible to the general reader? I looked up Mesoscale just to try to get an understanding of the terminology, and was immediately confused over how the term relates to this article. You clearly know the subject matter, but since this is a summary article, perhaps you could explain more terms in the article to provide the reader with a basic understanding. —Mattisse (Talk) 14:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've made a pass over the article and tried to clarify the text. It would be good to know exactly what still needs clarification from your perspective. It may not be clear from mine. Thegreatdr (talk) 18:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments

It is better! I will add comments below.
It would be good if you could add examples from other areas of the world, if possible, so as not to have a U.S. centric focus.
"Definition" section - perhaps could expand a little more here rather than just repeat the wording in the lead.

"MCS often is used to describe a cluster of thunderstorms that does not satisfy the size, shape, or duration criteria of an MCC." Perhaps some examples? Or describe in what ways they do not meet criteria?
"round or linear in shape" - does this refer to the "straight-line winds" mentioned farther down? Is a squall line linear, for example, whereas a cyclone would be round?

What is a "shelf cloud"?
What is a "cloud shield"?
"Their remains" as a heading looks strange. Would something Like "Remnants" or "Aftereffects" or ??

If I have more questions, I will add them as I go through the article. I think weather is fascinating, but I am unfamiliar with all the terms. I have learned some by copy editing the hurrican/cyclone articles. —Mattisse (Talk) 20:15, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Your first comment confused me, as there are at least two sections of the article which mention where else they form outside the United States. Are you worried that the Lake Effect precipitation section is too US centered? The others do not appear to have this issue. The line about MCS being used to describe systems other than MCCs was wrong, as MCCs are a subclass of MCS. The respective examples of MCS in the article below now mention if they are symmetric/round, or elongated, per your comments. The sizes mentioned refer to the shape of the thunderstorm formation's cloud pattern. I changed the title of Remains to Remnants, per your comments. I added a wikilink for shelf cloud, which should clarify that one. I also clarified what a cloud shield is, and provided an appropriate reference. If you think I satisfied your concerns, strike out the comments so I know what still needs work. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A few more comments

To answer your question above, I was worried that the lead emphasized the U.S.
"areas of 1000-500 mb thickness diffluence" - what is "mb"? Could you link the unit being used? Also, I am not clear what "diffluence" is.
Prose concerns: eg "In the cases of Lake-effect snow and polar lows, the convective systems form over warm water bodies when cold air sweeps over their surface, and leads to an increase in moisture and significant vertical motion which leads to the development of showers and thunderstorms in areas of cyclonic flow on the backside of extratropical cyclones." - this sentence has two "which leads" in it and is a run on sentence. I have tried to reword some of these. Could you go through the article and reword such sentences?

Otherwise, the article seems much clearer to me. —Mattisse (Talk) 16:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- Tried to explain 1000-500 hpa thickness diffluence. You're right...that was highly technical wording and needed clarification. Split the run-on sentence into 2 sentences. As for the lead, there is only one line which specifically mentions the United States. I found the fact that 1/2 of the rainfall which falls in the Great Plains annually during the summer to be highly significant, and necessary for the lead. I wish these kind of stats were available from elsewhere, but I haven't run across them for Europe, Africa, Australia, or Asia. Thegreatdr (talk) 13:53, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

More comments

Sorry to have so much trouble sorting this out! I only recently learned that hurricanes, typhoons and cyclones were the same thing.

"generally within the warm season between spring and fall" in lead. Does "spring and fall" apply to the southern hemisphere also.
"normally persists for several hours or more" - does "more" mean days, or what?
"that do not satisfy the size, shape, or duration criteria of an MCC" - but it is only said that the MCCs are "long-lived". So a MCS is "short-lived" or "shorter-lived"? Does this mean days, weeks?
"Some bow echoes which develop within the summer season" - again, how does this relate to the southern hemisphere?
Re Polar lows: "They are part of the larger class of mesoscale weather systems." Does that mean Mesoscale convective systems or is there a larger, overarching class?
"This typically occurs north of the equator from Africa across the Atlantic and eastern Pacific oceans, as well as across the northwest and southwest Pacific oceans, from Australia eastward into Oceana, the Indian ocean, Indonesia, and from southeast Brazil into the southern Atlantic ocean. It is also noted on occasion in the southeast Pacific ocean mild to cool ENSO years, outside of El Niño." I think this explanation could be expanded. I am not clear about what happens south of the equator. What is ENSO years? Although it is wikilinked, the reader must sort out the effects of El Niño etc. on all this.
I take it that there is no equivalent of "Lake-effect snow" in the southern hemisphere.
Is what happens in the southern hemisphere the mirror opposite of that in the northern? (My own question, as I am just learning about weather.)

—Mattisse (Talk) 15:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- Warm season, meaning spring through fall, would be true respective of hemisphere. This type of wording avoids POV centered on the Northern Hemisphere. When something persists for several hours or more, it could persist for days, yes. Mesoscale convective systems is the overarching class, with systems like polar lows members of this class, or else they would not be discussed within the article. I tried not to expand the ENSO section, because that's not the focus of this article, hence the wikilink. Lake-effect snow could occur anywhere, though the continents in the southern hemisphere do not appear to extend far enough to the south to allow for it, outside Antartica. Thegreatdr (talk) 17:38, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK. It is a very interesting article that contains a lot of new information for me! —Mattisse (Talk) 18:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Final GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): Well written b (MoS): Follows relevant MoS
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): Well referenced b (citations to reliable sources): Sources are reliable c (OR): No OR
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): Covers major aspects in context b (focused): Remains focused on topic
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: Neutral
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.: Stable
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail: Pass

Congratulations!

—Mattisse (Talk) 18:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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