Talk:Meriden, West Midlands

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Photo

For Commons:Category:Geographical centre, it would be nice to have a picture of the monument marking the "traditional centre" in Meriden [1][2]. -- User:Docu

There IS now a photograph of the monument marking the historic (medieval) centre of England. It’s the first of the images on the entry. Furthet down there the entry there is a photograph of what it looked like in 1879 - before the top piece was lost. Phil Simister (talk) 18:10, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

There is a wikimedia commons photo of the memorial stone by Frances Firth commemorating the site of the Triumph motorcycle factory. Can this be uploaded onto this page ? 213.123.135.235 (talk) 23:17, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

I tagged the article with "Original Research" which is what we call work that cannot be verified by checking published sources. I did this on the basis of the style and tone of the text, which contains numerous hints of uncertainty about the facts; and on the simple absence of citations in most of the text, including whole paragraphs and indeed entire sections.

I then checked the article history, and noted a recent edit comment which says "Minor edit of an earlier substantial rewrite following consultation with the key local historian who is the source of all the material". In addition, a section in the article stated

"== Historical Source Material ==

All the historical research and information lying behind this ‘potted historical account’ comes courtesy of the leading historical figure in the area, Doreen Agutter. As teacher, historian and archeologist, Doreen has been the font of all knowledge historical in the area for nearly 70 years. I am grateful for her help and forbearance. Any errors in this popularised Wikipedia entry are due to the delinquent memory of the author, not the scholarly knowledge of the source."

Well, if the "key local historian" Doreen Agutter has published suitable source papers in a journal, then the article should cite those papers; if not, I'm afraid that all of it is indeed Original Research, specially if she is indeed the only source available, and we will have to remove it in its entirety as not Verifiable. Phil Simister: Are the sources available in a form that can be cited? "Personal communication from John Smith" is unfortunately not acceptable. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:08, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've done a quick search and the following might perhaps be usable for citations in the article:

Meriden history, Solihull Borough Council

Meriden: its People and Houses. Vol 1. 1990; Vol 2 1992

Meriden Centre of England a Pictorial Guide book 1994

The local 'Meriden Mag[azine]' is a somewhat doubtful source but might just be usable:

Meriden Mag back issues

On the 'centre of England' theme, the Birmingham History Society forum provides some links which might be usable:

Stone cross at Meriden

RESPONSE:

1) All the work in the Meriden Mag and others come from Mrs Agutter. 2) She is working on gathering references for me but I need a little time. 3) None of the sources you quote bear any relevance to the period covered in this entry. 4) Can you tell me how I can submit a photograph put into Mrs Agutter's private collection by the family estate of the now deceased photographer - you were unhappy with my previous citation?

Phil Simister (talk) 20:01, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Phil Simister, and thanks for replying.

On (1), the Meriden Mag is at least a published source, which is a deal better than nothing.

On (2), we can wait a short while but not indefinitely - any editor is free to remove uncited materials at any time, and they may well do so without anyone inviting them. It would be appreciated if you could give me a date for the arrival of the citations.

On (3), It isn't my or any other editor's task to identify sources for you: the responsibility is on the person who adds material to the article; I was simply trying to show willing and indicate what kind of thing might be available. The key point is that citations are critically important.

On (4), go to Wikimedia Commons's "upload wizard" and follow the instructions to upload the image; but it sounds as if you will have an issue with release of copyright: all Commons images must be licensed with a Creative Commons license whereby the copyright holder grants permission for everyone to use the images as they like. Since you aren't the copyright holder, you will need immediately to raise an OTRS ticket supplying evidence that the copyright holder grants the required permission; an OTRS specialist volunteer will check the evidence and record the result on the image. Otherwise the image would simply be deleted after a short deletion discussion about the evidence or lack of it. I guess that a photocopy of a letter granting a CC-by-SA 3.0 License signed by the relevant family members would do the job, but the OTRS people can advise you on that. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:04, 21 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]