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Not exactly dispassionate, is it? I lost count of the expressions of outrage; though I can't tell whether the latter's a consequence of editorial bias, source bias, or both. Haploidavey (talk) 12:23, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Alexander Davronov, I think that inserting "death of nobility" may be misleading. It sounds as if only the nobility was decimated or that the killing of the elites was the main reason for the loss of status by Novgorod. Ideally the lede section should summarise the article, happy to hear your thoughts or suggestions. Alaexis¿question?21:40, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Alaexis: Hi. Thanks for heads up. I've amended it in the [21:48, November 2, 2021]. Some Russian sources claim that nobility was almost completely eliminated. Not sure whether it's exaggeration or not. Got no time to provide sources as I'm busy with other article My best. AXONOV(talk)⚑21:51, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Novgorod was free principality who paid tribute to Golden Horde, through "Moscovian state" (at that time they did not yet consider themselves Russians and did not call the state Russia).
Novgorod tried to oppose Tatar slavery, but the Muscovites retaliated with a massacre, just as they do now with the Ukrainians.
"Moscovian state" took over management, traditions, post, tax system and culture from the Golden Horde, not from Kyiv Rus. Novgorod preserved actual Rus tradition of Rus democracy, but Moscow destroyed it several times and cut off the majority of the Slavic population of Novgorod. Bodia1406 (talk) 03:21, 26 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
