Talk:Mary Anne MacLeod Trump

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This article was nominated for deletion on 30 January 2017. The result of the discussion was keep.

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please review

Hi Checkingfax can you please review this page. thanks ScotKreek (talk) 12:24, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, ScotKreek. Sure. What would you like me to review? I found a typo and fixed it. Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:43, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The DOB-DOD for her parents given in the text do not match the dates given in the box to the right. 146.199.34.113 (talk) 01:34, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Add picture

Here's a couple of nice pictures if someone can add them please.^[1] thanks ScotKreek (talk) 12:31, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=105719970

Hi, ScotKreek. You will need to seek a Creative Commons license for those photos or show that they are in the public domain, and then you may upload them to the Wikimedia Commons. Ping me back. Cheers! {{u|Checkingfax}} {Talk} 06:46, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 26 November 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: ~~not moved~~ no consensus. The names "Anne" and "MacLeod" serve as natural disambiguators, and the supporters of this move have not sufficiently demonstrated that the shorter version is the WP:COMMONNAME. There is no consensus to move this article, and no consensus on where exactly to move it, so we'll leave it here for now. (non-admin closure) Brad v 13:35, 1 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Anne MacLeod Trump → Mary MacLeod Trump – per WP:COMMONNAME – Mrs. Trump (née MacLeod), mother of U.S. President-elect Donald Trump is not known by her full name (including her maiden name) as most subjects are not. Per Wikipedia guidelines, we use the subject's common name. She is known as Mary MacLeod Trump in multiple news sources (DailyMail Express UK US Weekly Irish Central) with 276,000 results on Google Search. The reason to move to the proposed title is that Mary Trump and Mary Anne Trump, though also common name for his mother, is easily ambiguous as her daughter is also named Maryanne Trump, thus the proposed title is the best title for the subject and most common. CookieMonster755 𝚨-𝛀 23:52, 26 November 2016 (UTC)--Relisting. —UY Scuti ^Talk 03:52, 4 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting. — JFG ^talk 06:58, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Support per CookieMonster. MB298 (talk) 00:16, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Mary Trump. As far as I can tell, Maryanne Trump Barry is rarely, if ever, referred to as "Mary Trump", and that is the mother's common name by a large margin. A hatnote will suffice to Barry if necessary. Nohomersryan (talk) 03:03, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Rename to Mary Trump per WP:COMMONNAME and per Nohomersryan. Timrollpickering 22:25, 27 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Support Likely to be confused with Maryanne Trump Barry. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 05:09, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per CookieMonster755.LM2000 (talk) 15:16, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
~~Support~~ now Oppose per nom (and added information below, sources which actually use her full name). If the page is moved then still retain her maiden name MacLeod per nom. Randy Kryn 18:28, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Appears that several sources, including sources used the article, refer to her as Mary Anne. Some sources omit the "Anne", but not enough. Common Name is the name most commonly used in sources. Sources use the full name. JOJ ^Hutton 21:05, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I was pondering closing this request but most Support advocates are just relying on the nominator's assertion that "Mary MacLeod Trump" is the common name, while the lone Oppose voice points out that many sources also use the full name and current title. As the discussion stands, I don't see much CN proof either way. I would encourage both sides to please provide some analytics to back up their sourcing claims. And other arguments based on WP:CRITERIA for article titles would be welcome too. — JFG ^talk 06:58, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – I just noticed that her mother was called "Mary McLeod", so that her full given names "Mary Anne" served to distinguish her from her mother. This fact should weigh at least as strongly as the assertion that she could be confused with her daughter Maryanne Trump Barry. Given a mixed record of sources, WP:PRECISION dictates that we should keep the full name. — JFG ^talk 09:08, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Support - per nom. Unreal7 (talk) 22:17, 29 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

1930 census

1930 census was 1930-APR-23. If she arrived 1930-MAY-02, the person in census is not her.--JimWae (talk) 00:04, 22 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The subject of the article, Mary Anne MacLeod Trump, left Glasgow Scotland on May 2, 1930 according to "Alien Passenger list -SS Transylvania, May 2, 1930".. According to 1930 US Census, only 1 Mary MacLeod born in Scotland in 1912 appears in New York. The date of this census page is April 23, 1930. "1930 US Census - Manhattan (Districts 0501-0750), New York, New York, United States". As Mary Anne MacLeod Trump was not in the country for the 1930 Census, it is not the same person. I have amended the article to reflect this and added source. CBS527^Talk 04:21, 19 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

MacLeod or Mac Leod

In this article it is spelt MacLeod but on the birth certificate of her son[1] there is a space and it is written Mac Leod. This could explain the discrepancy discussed in the section above. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 14:49, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Most sources spell her name "MacLeod", and that's consistent with the usual spelling of Scottish Gaelic names. Donald Trump's birth certificate is a primary source on which the clerk may have simply made an honest mistake. Unless secondary sources spell it "Mac Leod" too, we should not entertain a change. — JFG ^talk 21:19, 20 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Avoiding editorial pieces when writing historical biographies

There is a source currently being used to label the subject of this article an "economic migrant". The source is titled, "Donald Trump's Scottish roots: How a tiny island could shape a President" - it is clearly about Donald Trump primarily, not his mother. The first line reads, "It may surprise many to learn that Donald Trump, having campaigned so fiercely on the issue of curbing immigration, is himself the son of an economic migrant." It is clearly an editorial piece written to highlight the fact that Trump's mother may have come to seek a better life in the US. It also makes the point that this was universal for her generation - I quote: "She was categorically an economic migrant, her whole generation were,"

I believe using that source to state, as is currently phrased, In doing so she became what would later be termed an economic migrant, is adopting a political POV from the editorial piece and has nothing to do with the details of her own life and times. It is therefore retro-fitting loaded language onto what should be a neutral article. I believe the phrase "economic migrant" must go.

Samsara 01:23, 9 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"just" $50

In the section Immigration to the United States we read that she arrived "in America with just $50 (equivalent to $732 in 2017)". While $50 doesn't sound much, a value of $732 hardly justifies the word "just" so I'm removing it. --Michael Bateman (talk) 17:04, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

may want to lock

There have been several facebook memes going around (~6/25) regarding her recently (status as legal/illegal immigrant), it is entirely likely that there will be a lot of uninformed edits happening in the near future, this page might should be locked and have edits reviewed before that happens.

Education in Early Life

Regarding this line: "English was her second language, which she learned at the school she attended until eighth grade." Whilst the source states "until eighth grade", I do not feel this is appropriate for an individual educated in Scotland in the 1910's/1920's. The "grade" system never existed in Scotland, at least as far as I am aware. I would change it but would rather find where they sourced that information from, as it sounded like an assumption based upon age, as I doubt her school had specific year groups. For the time period and her locale, it was more than likely to have been a single roomed school with children of various ages, as was (and still is to a degree the norm in many rural communities. UaMaol (talk) 21:38, 13 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Date format and spelling

This has surfaced in relation to this article in the past, but as it has been controversial in the past, it seems appropriate to raise it here. As the subject was born and raised in the UK, would it not be more appropriate for the date formats and the spelling to reflect this? I propose that for the dates, they should be of the "ddmmyyyy" format and the language to either be strictly British English or a mixture of British and American English. The current format is rather odd and doesn't reflect the subject very well, even if she is the mother of the current President of the US. An interview from 1994 with Frank Patterson shows she still had a Scottish accent then, aged 82, and likely still used British terms. (On the matter of readership, if the spellings and dates are to reflect the readership, then all the articles of the British Royal Family Should be changed to American English to reflect this!) MOS hints at retaining style unless disputed. As a result, I formally dispute the current style and propose a change to either change to British English or the Wiki standard of neither/both, along with the standard "ddmmyyyy" date format. UaMaol (talk) 05:32, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Being the mother of a US president, and having spent most of her life there (apparently with that intent from the time she was 18), the subject's significance is stronger to the US than to European countries. It isn't standard at all to use both formats in the same article, as far as I'm aware. But there's a difference between the British Royal Family, which should use the international style, and the Trump family, which should use the US style. UpdateNerd (talk) 06:01, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Father: ...compulsory officer

This term is wikilinked to the Truancy article, but there is no mention of the term there. One can guess at what a compulsory officer does, but no more than that. Boscaswell talk 21:22, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is a job title only used in Scotland for an education welfare officer or truant officer, enforcing attendance at school. "The CO is the Compulsory Officer, sometimes known as the Whipper-In. It was their job to check that all pupils attended school and to chase up those who were missing." from an Isle of Lewis source http://tasglann.org.uk/gd/photo/82?gal=%2Fgd%2Fcollections%2Fimage-galleries%2Fness-archives

I can not find a better wikilink than Truancy. Nedrutland (talk) 07:43, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Trump redirect

DJT niece Mary doesn't have a Wikipedia article but releasing a "tell-all" book mid-August; news coverage has started. Seems that might earn her a WP article soon, in which case redirect to this page should probably be removed. Doug Grinbergs (talk) 07:29, 15 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done - See: Mary Trump - KConWiki (talk) 04:26, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Trump "Philanthropist"

Following the provided source for Mary Trump being a philanthropist leads to an obituary on the NYTimes website and provides no supporting evidence for her being a philanthropist. This seems like a PR attempt at making her seem altruistic. Given the prominence of this description of her lifes work this is entirely misleading if not an outright lie. Removed it from the page. If others thing it deserves being a personal attribute of Mary, perhaps find a source that shows what work or goals she accomplished in philanthropy. 10:29, 7 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Colugo29 (talk • contribs)

[1] ttp://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=105719970

[1]